So, What the Frak was Kara Thrace???

[hansioux]

It looks to me like Kara Thrace disappeared and then reappeared 150,000 years later in New York, working for CTU as an intelligence analyst, LOL.

And btw, I’ll be naming one of my future kids Thrace, and if I find out any of you took that name for your kid, I’ll be sending Thrace to beat your kid until he/she changes their name.

that kid will change their names to Sprtacus.

[extraterran]

Eureka! Ronald D. Moore is even more of a genius than I thought before.
Kara Thrace is his deus ex machina! Oh my God(s)! It’s perfect!
The one time when it’s OKAY to have deus ex machina in writing a story plot!!!
Now it all makes sense, in the way it doesn’t necessarily make sense!!!
(Except in this case, it’s not a sudden resolution, but it was planted all along).
He’s a genius!

[jwellfor]

She doesn’t fit neatly into any category of religious categories. I’ve give this some thought, while she has some of the qualities of an angel she doesn’t fit neatly into that category. She also fits a lot of the qualities associated with a profit. I think the connection to Jesus is too much. I think if we were looking for characters from the bible, she does fit closely with Moses. She could lead, guide, or navigate the people to the promised land but she could not fully enter. Her purpose was for the journey, not the destination. This is just a thought. I recognize that the Moses connection is somewhat off point because of the whole death/resurrection thing but she was a deity in the form of say Jesus, but she was divine in the sense of being an instrument of the divine. So for my two cents she was a Moses, which also leaves open the theological question of what was Moses? He doesn’t fit neatly into the categories of prophet or angel either.

[Scott_the_Hockey_Guy]

I never really figured it out (and it is part of the fun of it…)

But I felt her BSG journey was some kind of redemption/second chance for something she did during the war on Earth 1.0 with the Cylons…maybe she was the one who dropped all the nukes we saw in the cutscene (would explain why her Viper crashed and she died there)…yeah my theory i vague…but so was most of the info we got about her…

[hansioux]

I think the connection to Jesus is too much. I think if we were looking for characters from the bible, she does fit closely with Moses.

Kara Thrace shall hence forth be called Moesus or Jeoses. anyway, it could just be they borrowed a lot of religious symbolisms from the bible.

[melkorsbane]

When I saw Starbuck disappear, I immediately thought of Shelly Godfrey. Remember? When Head 6 disappeared from Baltar’s head, then this mysterious 6 (Shelly Godfrey) shows up trying to frame Baltar, then Head 6 reappears and Shelly Godfrey disappears and is never seen again. I think Adama makes some comment along the lines of, “Was she ever really here?”.

So anyway, now I think the Shelly Godfrey actually was Head 6, and that the angels can manifest in a way that will allow everyone to see them. And that’s what I think Starbuck was.

Mind blown. (I’m late to this discussion, and I’m still reading through things, but this seals a lot of things for me IMO)

[melkorsbane]

I’m jumping in here without reading all previous nine pages (don’t think I’ve posted in this one - had a bit of a posting fest since I watched the finale the other day), so tell me to frak off if I’m not adding anything new.

I don’t think it matters so much what KT is. She and the head characters, and indeed “God” could all be a remnant from an earlier cycle - escapees who managed to get out of the cycle of war, destruction and rebirth perhaps. That would work for me as an atheist or agnostic (I can never decide - the former seems so, well faith-based). But if I was a present-day monotheist who believed in the literal truth of the Bible then a Judaeo-Christian type angel would probably be fine.

I think today we have lost a sense of the numinous, largely as a result of our obsession with rationalism and science. Now I’m a scientist and try and base my interpretation of the world on rationalism as much as I can (it works pretty well). But that doesn’t mean there’s no place for the mythological or the transcendental in my world-view. I think that today in the West we tend to think we have to be either rational or “spiritual”. But the mythology that we associate with religion has always provided metaphors that help us understand the world in a sort of intuitive way. It’s been argued (by ex-nun and writer on religion Karen Armstrong for one) that people used to understand this, and that it’s only relatively recently that we’ve started to get all worked up about the literal truth or otherwise of religious texts which were to a large extent always intended as metaphor.

Now, BSG has got into the souls of most of us here - like a great book it lives within you long after you’ve watched the last DVD or read the last page. I think the reason for this is that it gives us a great, accessible and meaningful mythology that’s relevant to our situation today. Something that can do this imbues the world with more meaning and makes it more numinous. I enjoy being out in the wild much more as a result of having read Lord of the Rings. The desert is a much more exciting place as a result of my having digested the Dune series and Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars trilogy. I don’t expect to meet Frodo Baggins or have to battle orcs when I’m out in the woods here in the UK, or have to escape a sandworm in the Sahara, but Tolkein, Herbet and Robinson have given me new eyes with which to look at the world. They’ve given me a mythological template that I overlay on the real world, without getting lost in fantasy. The mythological and the rational can coexist and complement one another and enrich our lives in the process.

So, what I’m trying to say is, to a very large extent I don’t give a frak what Kara Thrace is, I just thought it was cool when she disappeared, and that the world was richer because of the existence of something so complex, beautiful and inexplicable. BSG gives us a mythology, and it doesn’t have to be completely rational, although we can find rational explanations if we want. It enriches our lives and gives us new eyes. The “supernatural” elements can remain mysterious and/or metaphorical. In fact this is a minor consideration for me. What matters to me is the extra mythological layer that BSG has added to my world. If I ever do begin to blur the lines between fantasy and reality I’ll just have to work out whether it’s orc’s, sandworms or centurions I’ll be meeting round the corner now.

I have no idea if that made sense, and apologise for my verbosity

Still trekking through all of these posts, but for many, many reasons I found this one truly, truly excellent. Thanks for sharing it!

[dxf]

The questions are almost better than the answers.

[Scott_the_Hockey_Guy]

The questions are almost better than the answers.

True and after seeing shows like Heroes, Sliders and V cut off way way too soon, I don’t mind unanswered questions like this…keeps the show alive in a way…

[Gryper]

When I saw Starbuck disappear, I immediately thought of Shelly Godfrey. Remember? When Head 6 disappeared from Baltar’s head, then this mysterious 6 (Shelly Godfrey) shows up trying to frame Baltar, then Head 6 reappears and Shelly Godfrey disappears and is never seen again. I think Adama makes some comment along the lines of, “Was she ever really here?”.

So anyway, now I think the Shelly Godfrey actually was Head 6, and that the angels can manifest in a way that will allow everyone to see them. And that’s what I think Starbuck was.

Mind blown. (I’m late to this discussion, and I’m still reading through things, but this seals a lot of things for me IMO)

Once you watch The Plan DVD, the Shelly Godfrey thing isn’t so mysterious anymore.

[Bucket]

Once you watch The Plan DVD, the Shelly Godfrey thing isn’t so mysterious anymore.

Yeah, I haven’t watched The Plan in a while, but I can’t think of a single question it answered that wouldn’t have been better left unanswered. Although I do recall it having some great Cavill moments

[Scott_the_Hockey_Guy]

Yeah, I haven’t watched The Plan in a while, but I can’t think of a single question it answered that wouldn’t have been better left unanswered. Although I do recall it having some great Cavill moments

I did like seeing Boomer get flipped “on” and “off” …it did explain a lot of her later breakdowns later in the show…it was really twisting and fracturing her psyche, plus I did enjoy seeing the story of the Five…as well as how this whole thing was a GIANT Cavill tantrum that not even all the 1’s agreed about

[NothingButheRain]

The questions are almost better than the answers.

I’ve really enjoyed reading the posts of the last week here.
For me dxf nails it.

I happen to think Starbuck was an angel, a very different kind of angel from what I was familiar with - a very flawed angel.
Perhaps serving a flawed god.
So many questions, so many possibilities - that’s why I love BSG so much.

[JimBright]

SPOILER ALERT…

From what I’ve read in the Blood and Chrome scripts Kara’s father (Dreilide) is a member of the 13th tribe and, like Saul and the others, Dreilide left the original earth during the violent war that took place there.

For those less educated in all things BSG, remember there are 2 Earths. The original earth that the Cylons inhabited and the new earth that the BattleStar people eventually settled.

So Dreilide leaves Earth 1 with the rest… He does not participate in “deal” that Saul and the others made to stop the first cylon war because he fell in love with a Human (Socrata - Kara’s Mom) who was a Marine in the 1st Cylon War and was injured at the time. Now why don’t the other “Original 5” remember him during the series? Do not forget that Number 7 Blocks the original memories. The original 5 regain much of their memories during the series but apparently not that the Original 5 was really the Original 6.

So Kara is the FIRST human/cylon baby.

Now why did Kara be reborn? The Resurrection devices left on original earth (developed by Saul and Dreilide) were configured based on DNA and Kara shared this critical link with her father.

What is not explained is HOW she got a brand new viper and HOW she disappears at the end. It’s possible the disappearance is not based on Kara but Adama’s imagination that she was with him at that moment.

So facts from the BSG Series that back this up.

Socrata dies (human)
Dreilide is never reported dead (Cylon)

The song is taught to Kara by her father.
The song is known by the “Original 5” cylons.

Kara is driven to draw/paint a Mandala
Hera is seen drawing a Mandala

Having read much of Caprica’s Season 2 script (although it’s been a long time now), Zoe meets Dreilide in Vworld and He gives her something. I don’t remember what it was though. Vworld

The drawing Hera hands Kara is that of music notes that Kara recognizes but doesn’t understand. (someone to watch over me)

And that’s that.

So the mystery of what she is no longer exists, there’s some confusing items like the new viper and her disappearing act but I could see a lot of that was cleared up in the script, I just didn’t have it on my desk long enough to read it before it had to change hands.

We’ll all find out a lot more when we finally decide to air Blood and Chrome. I know I’m looking forward to it.

[melkorsbane]

I really love this idea, but when Kara returned after going BOOM, she still had her tattoos and such. I don’t know that Cylon resurrection tech could be so adaptive as that.

[ThPrime]

I was hoping B&C would not even try appending anything to the final five canon. So late after the fact, a revisionist patch job would not be well received, similar to the overall cold reception met by The Plan. And mostly what The Plan tried was to demystify most of the outstanding questions with mundane answers. So I’m still hoping. There’s so much story potential in the first Cylon War you don’t need any thirteenth tribe element watering down what should be a tight, involved war story centered around Adama. I mean, B&C is a ninety minute pilot! To cram in a parallel origin story in addition to the Colonials and the rebelling killer robots they built can only make for a distracted, overly complicated ninety minutes. None of it could go into depth. Jack of all stories, master of none with more exposition vomiting.

All I’ve ever seen over the years, out and about on teh internets, is fans almost universally wanting a meat and potatoes war story in the spirit of Battlestar as military space opera during its first two seasons. I really wouldn’t not ignore that opportunity to take a first step towards forgiveness with alienated fans.

[Scott_the_Hockey_Guy]

the more I think about it the more I hope they leave the hell alone “what Kara is”…I don’t need a “oh crap, all the mystical force is just a bunch of parasites in your system!!!” moment which ruined all the awesome and fabulousness of being a Jedi…just leave it for speculation and wonder…and her being all a part of “God’s Plan” still fits the theme of the series just fine…

[frakkintalos]

the more I think about it the more I hope they leave the hell alone “what Kara is”…I don’t need a “oh crap, all the mystical force is just a bunch of parasites in your system!!!” moment which ruined all the awesome and fabulousness of being a Jedi…just leave it for speculation and wonder…and her being all a part of “God’s Plan” still fits the theme of the series just fine…

If she showed up on Erf in a flashback, it wouldn’t bother me. I agree that we don’t need an explanation because it would negate all the great speculation.

Oh. And. There are no such thing as midichlorians. It’s an elaborate hoax conjured up by the Jedi to support their elitist propaganda. adjust tin foil hat

[Scott_the_Hockey_Guy]

If she showed up on Erf in a flashback, it wouldn’t bother me. I agree that we don’t need an explanation because it would negate all the great speculation.

Oh. And. There are no such thing as midichlorians. It’s an elaborate hoax conjured up by the Jedi to support their elitist propaganda. adjust tin foil hat

I agree on that…something that adds to the questioning is good…just PLEASSSEEE don’t give a defined answer, nothing good comes from it!!

HAHAHAHA, well played…those aren’t the micro-organisms I’m looking for…

[soaked]

SPOILER ALERT…

From what I’ve read in the Blood and Chrome scripts Kara’s father (Dreilide) is a member of the 13th tribe and, like Saul and the others, Dreilide left the original earth during the violent war that took place there.

For those less educated in all things BSG, remember there are 2 Earths. The original earth that the Cylons inhabited and the new earth that the BattleStar people eventually settled.

So Dreilide leaves Earth 1 with the rest… He does not participate in “deal” that Saul and the others made to stop the first cylon war because he fell in love with a Human (Socrata - Kara’s Mom) who was a Marine in the 1st Cylon War and was injured at the time. Now why don’t the other “Original 5” remember him during the series? Do not forget that Number 7 Blocks the original memories. The original 5 regain much of their memories during the series but apparently not that the Original 5 was really the Original 6.

So Kara is the FIRST human/cylon baby.

Now why did Kara be reborn? The Resurrection devices left on original earth (developed by Saul and Dreilide) were configured based on DNA and Kara shared this critical link with her father.

What is not explained is HOW she got a brand new viper and HOW she disappears at the end. It’s possible the disappearance is not based on Kara but Adama’s imagination that she was with him at that moment.

So facts from the BSG Series that back this up.

Socrata dies (human)
Dreilide is never reported dead (Cylon)

The song is taught to Kara by her father.
The song is known by the “Original 5” cylons.

Kara is driven to draw/paint a Mandala
Hera is seen drawing a Mandala

Having read much of Caprica’s Season 2 script (although it’s been a long time now), Zoe meets Dreilide in Vworld and He gives her something. I don’t remember what it was though. Vworld

The drawing Hera hands Kara is that of music notes that Kara recognizes but doesn’t understand. (someone to watch over me)

And that’s that.

So the mystery of what she is no longer exists, there’s some confusing items like the new viper and her disappearing act but I could see a lot of that was cleared up in the script, I just didn’t have it on my desk long enough to read it before it had to change hands.

We’ll all find out a lot more when we finally decide to air Blood and Chrome. I know I’m looking forward to it.

I know that this is a super old thread but I just recently finished watching BSG for the first time. And after reading JimBright’s post this Kara Thrace mystery seems to be making a lot of sense now.
I started thinking about the episode S04E17 “Some To Watch Over Me” where Kara has a vision of her father as a pianist (Slick) who teaches her “the Music”. It seems there’s no clear indication that the pianist is only in Kara’s head. Nobody is wondering why Kara is arguing herself all the time. So maybe Dreilide was still alive?

He was the one who was responsible for Kara’s death and resurrection. He cloned a new body/bodies with tattoos and everything and arranged a brand new Viper (not so good of a cover up :D). Guess killing Kara through manipulation (Head-Leoben = Dreilide), and resurrecting her at the Earth was the fastest way to get the fleet to the Earth 1 eventually. After that Dreilide boarded the Galactica and teached Kara the coordinates.

Mystery solved! And this is the best one out there. Gosh, I was so full of that angel crap…

Okey, this doesn’t yet explain how Kara disappeared in the end, but guess Dreilide had an ace up his sleeve and shot a teleport beam at her in order to finally reunite Cavil might have had a plan but Dreilide was the real god here.