I think that was my favorite scene with her, Adama, and Kara made me tear up a bit. It was so nice to see the parallel between losing her family in the flashback and her Galactica family. She was not going to be left behind again.
Amen! I’m looking forward to next week.
Just my 2 cents
So there’s Lee drunk, smashing up the place trying to eject a pigeon. When the scene is done we see him back on Galactica coordinating efforts there. How far has he come? From being a drunken viper jock who can’t cast out a pigeon to the President of Humanity controlling every little thing.
I hated this damn ep, but the flashbacks are showing what was lost. While we already oughtta know this, perhaps these are pivotal moments in the Cycle whose inceptions are these flashbacks–moments which, if they had gone differently, there would have been no death.
At first viewing, I felt the same way that you guys do. Then I rewatched the episode.
It was better than I thought. Do yourselves a favor, watch this one again. You’ll be surprised what you find. It doesn’t give you many answers (I don’t think that they ever will) but what it does give you is the clarity of Why.
Why did these characters make their choice at the end. Go or Stay? What has led then up to this point in their lives? How will they contribute to the final showdown?
Don’t fret, next week will be the pay off for this episode and season 4.5 as a whole.
That’s what I’m hoping.
I like that. Note to self: Steal that. Welcome aboard.
This may strike some as heresy, but I think Star Trek had way too much techno-babel. One of the things I like about BSG is that it agrees and largely, but not completely, dispenses with it. At a higher level, there’s an awareness that explanation for its own sake doesn’t serve the story at best and at worst creates problems and limits story. Frequently this has something to do with the fact that RDM often hasn’t figured out the explanation yet, but then he’s leaving an opening for some future creative freedom. So the rule in BSG is that the writers only explain themselves if it is necessary for the plot. Like the Anders/Ellen plot dump in No Exit makes Cavil’s actions make sense and provides impetus to these last episodes.
Also remember that the various supernatural beings, the Head characters, have never explained themselves, or anything else, clearly about anything. This is consistent with supernatural things in real world religions or, if you prefer, their proselytizers. The plot dump came from the lips of Ellen and Anders, two, broadly speaking, morals.
Now, you might argue that the fans demand answers. And for a lot of fans, this is true. You might argue that it’s the end so there’ll be no need for future creative freedom. That’s true also. You may also argue that it would be disingenuous to put the phrase “you will know the truth” in all the promos, and even make it the title for a web site, and not follow through with plenty of exposition. You would be correct.
So what we’re going to get is a compromise that largely follows the philosophy of the show thus far. For things witnessed and comprehended by living (both recently and current but not distantly) mortals and that are central to the over all story of the series, we’re going to get explanations that are readily comprehensible by we mere mortals. For things that are mystical, miraculous, or just plain tangental, things will get fuzzier. I don’t think you’ll get no explanation, just that they won’t be as clear and definitive as you would like.
The one thing RDM seems to want to avoid is explaining the metaphysics of BSG. We’ve gotten some clues with which we can make some reasoned inferences about it, but “answers” will be elusive because that’s metaphysics for you. And because metaphysics can easily distract from the characters, the people in the story. It’s the characters and the story that are important.
I think that there’s more to come. Not all of it, however, will come in the form of someone saying, “this is what’s going on” blah, blah, blah. I’m just, as an pervious boss used to put it, trying to manage expectations.
That’s a very good way to put it. Characters & why = important
That’s why I think we’ll learn that Cavil (or his predecessor) in the previous cycle, was the jealous Lord/god of Kobol. But I’ll agree before you say it, that’s me writing the screen play, and last time I checked I had yet to secure that position.
Until the series is finished, I wouldnt begin complaining about loose ends.
And so what if they leave behind some loose ends?
Maybe the writers care more about telling a story about the people of Galactica, and Id rather have a season telling about what happens to those people than telling us every last bit of information to fill up whatever loose ends they may have created.
12 hours and 71 posts already. Hot thead.
Whoa /Neo
Strong emotions about the topic too. 
I just hope they don’t upset us in the end…
I think the tension has built up to a climax right now and we want it to come already…
[QUOTE=sabixx;155111]
She told him Kara was special way back in season 1,want to explain how Gaius knows that on his own?
When was this? As I recall, all Head Six said about Kara to Baltar was “I wonder if she’s a real blonde.”
She showed him the Cylon equipment on the ship that nobody noticed,how would Gaius know that on his own?
Are you referring to the tillium refinery on “Hand of God?” Remember that Baltar simply guessed by pointing at a random building on the recon pictures and merely got lucky. Her telling him what the other buildings were about could simply be a manifestation of things he, as a scientist working for the Ministry of Defense before the attacks, would’ve known about tillium refining.
at one point, she held Gaius up so he could take the beating when he was trying to re-enter his liar and the guards wouldnt allow it.
Well, there is that. Somewhere on You Tube there’s a demonstration of how someone can do that to themselves and make it look pretty convincing, though.
Gaius had no way of knowing a child that would change the world would be born, head six mentioned it to him before anything was known about Helo and the 8. Six called Hara the sign of things to come before she was even born.
Ah, but nobody said anything about Hera changing the world when it was just Head Six and Gaius’ baby. Or am I misremembering?
what about the six who came on board and knew everything Gaius did, and then disappeared without a trace?
Shelly Godfrey? Well, yeah…there’s her too. I don’t think we will get an explanation of that, frankly. But those were the days when no one knew what all the cylon models looked like. I’d just assumed that she found a convenient way off the ship and eventually either blended into the general population of the fleet or found her way to a cylon basestar either through space travel or resurrection. But she didn’t know everything Gaius did. She knew everything Dr. Amarack did and was trying to frame Gaius (for something Gaius actually DID do, but she was doing it with doctored photographs).
Look, I’m not saying it’s airtight, but there are more instances of Head Six speaking Baltar’s mind (or things that COULD be in Baltar’s mind) than things that he couldn’t possibly know. There are two hours left and all this talk of “angels” and “heralds” of the final five makes me think we’ll hear about this before the show is over at 11 p.m. next Friday. If you ask me, though, I don’t think that’s the most essential question of the show, which is all I was trying to say.
I wonder who/what The Lords of Kobol were/are. And that jealous lord/god too. And that opera house. Except, except - I’m having an epiphany!
I don’t want to know! I don’t want resolution about central plot themes to the entire series and the implications for the cycle and humanity! All I want to know is what’s the deal with Lee and that frakkin’ pigeon.
By the way, for those of you who have not freed yourselves from the shackles of the plot, recall what Mary McD had to say in an interview right after the shooting wrapped - the final THREE (not one) hours will resolve essentially everything and send the dedicated fans back to rewatch the series - especially the miniseries.
Fortunately, I no longer care and am off to watch old episodes of “Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea” starrting Richard Basehart and David Hedison.
My question to you is, if you see so many flaws (and yes, it does have them. For one, the writers can’t seem to sustain a good level of tension and interest throughout an entire 22 episode season. Love quadrangle; “Black Market;” “The Woman King” anyone?), why have you stuck with it for so long?
One flaw, however, that might lead to your not getting the answers you want is the nature of episodic television writing. These things were not set up in advance from the very beginning. Many elements we now take as central to the story began life as secondary storylines meant to fill out 42 minutes of air time. I mean, who would’ve thought, early in season 1, that the Helo/Sharon on Caprica story would turn out to be one of the central elements of the entire series?
I also wonder if the problem is not that you haven’t been provided answers so much as that you don’t like the answers you have been provided.
That’s actually an interesting theory. Previously, I’d been of the Baltar-is-the-Jealous-God school, but Cavil makes much more sense. Cavil is much more of a Satan figure in the way you’d expect the Jealous God to be.
The thing is, though, that for me (and this is for me, by the way. I feel like this discussion is on the verge of nastiness and I don’t like the fact that I may be a catalist in that nastiness. Not on THIS forum), I don’t really care who the drivers are, if there are such drivers. One of the things I’ve loved so much about this show is how it’s handled the question of religion. Religion and spirituality are central to the characters on BSG, but it’s never presented in anything but the most ambiguous ways. Hence why Sabbix can have one interpretation of what Head Six is and I can have another. They’re radically different and they both work within the show. I think to answer questions like “who were the Lords of Kobol” or “what’s up with the Head Characters” too concretely will fundamentally change the nature of the show. And while this might be okay, since it’s ending and all, BSG strikes me as a show meant to be enjoyed not just as it aired but also on DVD, post-facto. It is comparable, as Audra stated on an early podcast, to the huge novels of Dickens, Tolstoy and others at the end of the 19th century which were serialized in magazines and then published in book form. I would hate to get to the last hour and then have EVERYTHING changed for me, as I return to the show again later on, by a single, less-than-satisfying event.
I’ll tell you one thing, though: the writing on this show, flaws and all (pace, Sabixx), has tended to be on such a high level so consistently, that I’ve been willing to go the full length of the journey with its writers. There are few shows that have lasted more than a couple of seasons I’ve been able to say this about.
I think if it was set up from Season 3 onward (Kara’s death,watchtower) it will probably be answered but you should also have to remember The Plan should also answer a lot of questions too. I don’t think explaining the Lords of Kobol or Head Characters is really important to the show right now. We still have 4 hours of the show left. (Tv movie plus finale). If the writers didn’t have space to explain the mysteries, they would have worked answers into to the earlier episodes. I do think a lot of the mysteries are connected together. Therefore explaining them would reveal too much too early. I’d say prepare yourself not to get all the answers just in case.
Watch the film, it’s got Barbara Eden in it. Hubba Hubba.
I think the answers should be addressed (and I personally think that they will - we have two hours left in the series and I do agree with you that we are having the debate because it’s meant to be a three hour episode). My point was that if the big questions that are left aren’t answered I won’t be mad. As long as they tell me a good story and I get to see what happens the people I love I will be okay. I’m okay with not knowing what Kara is and I even okay with not knowing what the head people are. But that’s just me.