We watched it last night. Doesn’t seem to be a ref to that one after all.
no it isn’t- the audiobook, anyway. Sadly overlooked.
Are you talking about battlefield promotions? Are these promotions still effective after battle?
Battlefield promotions, battlefield commissions, provisional promotions, or provisional rank assignments are all types of brevet promotions. Currently, they still exist today, but they are rare. Some states have different rules concerning brevet promotions dealing with the governor and the state’s national guard and or coast guard. As far as I know, all brevet commissions or promotions that are battlefield promotions and commissions are still effective after battle unless they are granted on a temporary basis from the outset.
We don’t really know what Starfleet rules are and don’t know how different they were from TOS as compared to TNG. Picard conferred full ensign on Wesley Crusher despite having not graduated from the Academy. Commander Riker was filed promoted to Captain during Picard’s abduction by the Borg, but when Picard returned, he voluntarily resumed his previous rank and post.
Also, in the book relaunch of the Voyager series, the Maquis members of Janeway’s crew who had been given provisional commissions were all granted two-step promotions (Torres, who dropped out of Starfleet her second year, was promoted to Lt. Commander and Chakotay was promoted to Captain)
Brevet Rank is no longer legal. The Military doesn’t like to take rank away. Audy Murphy, the most decorated soldier in US history, had to give his LT rank back at the end of World war 2. Many of those “mustangs” from the navy lost their jobs when the war was over as well… they couldn’t keep officers rank,they weren’t as qualified on paper as the “professional officers” and they couldn’t put a former Lt or ensign back to being a Chief or Sgt.
At this time in the US military, the only Brevet promotions are for enlistd persons. THe promoteing of an e-4 to corporal, can be done at the Battalion level, or even by a detatched company command. Enlisted ranks lower than SFC can all be handled by local commands.
The National Gaurd can has a system for commisioning and promoteing officers within the gaurd… but said officer looses that rank if they join the active duty military. If the gaurd unit is called up… they keep the rank but will not be tranfered to a non gaurd unit for more than a limited duty.
The military as adopted a system of “people hold positions not rank” now days instead of brevet promotions they jsut tell someone that they have the position at their current rank. ( like what happend during the movie with Kirk and Spock) In a sense, a SFC can hold the poition of a fist sgt. He wears his SFC rank, but he is adressed as First Sgt.
When I was a WO1 ( Warrant Officer) I was a detachment commander ( roughly equivalent to a Company commander ususally commanded by a Capt). I had 4 plattoons under me. Each one commanded by an NCO.
When I was a W02 I was the opperations officer for S3 in a MI BN. Normaly a job for a Major. Once again, no promotion… they just knew I was the boss and did as I commanded.
As for wartime promotions, we haven’t taken the casualties that warrented brevet promotions since Korea. Even 'nam we didn’t field promote enlisted men to officers or promote officers to position, ( despite what your uncles might try to tell you with a beer in their hand- I can’t tell you how many old guys at bars have tried to tell me this) we just assigned them to positions. When we were low on officers , we started a program back home to lower our standards for officers ( no degree but some university, or letter of recomend for enlisted soldiers) but it was never battlefield. Those persons were brought back to the US or recruited, trained and NEVER returned to the unit they had served as enlisted men.
If they needed a LT to be a capt ( army) or a Commander to command a Ship… they simply did it with no promotion.
Thanks for the info. That’s the last time I use the internet to find answer to a question. This is what I found:
Is brevet still used? Yes, but not to the extent it was during the Civil War. Today, it is used mainly to immediately promote someone when Congress has approved the promotion but for some future date (budget problems?). Until that time, they have all the rights and privileges (and duties)
of the new rank by brevet. Another difference is that the word “Brevet” no longer precedes the name of the promoted rank.
and found this on Wikipedia:
Today, brevetting still occurs on rare occasions when officers are selected for promotion to a higher rank, but have yet to reach the effective date of promotion. For brevetting to occur today, an unusual set of circumstances must be present to justify wearing the higher rank before the promotion becomes effective. For example, in 2005, two U.S. Air Force lieutenant colonels selected to promotion to Colonel were brevetted (frocked) Colonel about six months ahead of their effective dates of promotion due to the high-profile nature of the duties that they were performing.
Yeah, I shouldn’t have said it wasn’t legal… I should have said that it’s not policy. Command can do anything they want at any time ( until they get caught) they can pin a rank on someone… and as soon as that person get’s in front of a new command… command doesn’t rexognize it. This used to happen to Cpl’s all the time. When I was in Ranger Bn, we would promote E-4’s to Cpl all the time. When they left the Bn and showed up at their next unit… the first thing they would have to do is get a new ID card and pull that rank off of their uniform. But the worst thing is the part where they have to stop being NCO’s and go back to being “high paid privates”.
I felt a little of that when I had been in command of my detatchment in Kosovo. It was hard to adjust to comeing back to Fort Meade and being 1 in a 10,000.
Keeping with the theme… Pike gave Kirk XO position in the field. It is a stretch to believe tht if all had went well with Pike’s mission, Kirk would have been tranfered to another ship as the XO.
I want to try to think up ways to make the new movies rank and position system work… but reality isn’t the place to go to look for the explanation… cause it’s not based on reality.
Kinda the same thing as thinking that Lee Adama would be next in line from a rank and merit to command the Pegasus. I mean Kelly had been a fleet officer with a perfect record, there were obviously people on the pegasus, but Adama had an agenda. I think Pike had one as well.
I agree with you on that. Pike had an agenda from the moment he recruited Kirk to come to the academy. He said to him that Starfleet was missing what Kirk had. Also, it behooves us to try and make our reality fit theirs. There are examples of field promotions in Starfleet canon (i cited some already). But its not like we know what Starfleet’s policy is on field commands. Riker was a Captain but voluntarily resumed his previous rank and post. Janeway handed out provisional commissions to Maquis like they were candy, and the novels, canon or not, many of those Maquis stayed in Starfleet and some like Be’lanna were jump-stepped. And Picard made Wesley full Ensign. But Janeway wouldn’t promote Kim, go figure.
Point is, our reality is not their reality.
I just ran across your forum/podcasts on ITUNES and am loving it…can 't believe I didn’t hear about you guys before. Anyway, way digging the Trek podcasts but really wish you wouldn’t have skipped Trek III…any chance on a time travel reset…
mal3607, Welcome to the Forum and GWC-universe !
Hey MAL! Welcome to the Forums…glad you found us…
Chuck has said they do want to go back and cover the other Trek movies and the expanded Trek universe, so it could happen… you can also suggest podcast ideas elsewhere in the forums… browse around, check out the FAQ(it helps) and pose any questions… just make sure your ready for answers when you ask, cause this forum (or Hive mind) is vast and opinons vary wildly…it is a great place.
There is only one word to describe this movie…
“BESTMOVIEOFTHEYEAR!!!”
Yes, that is one word…well…it is now.
I looooooooooooved it! Me and both of my Trek buddies saw it Friday night and since then we have seen it 3 times and it is just as good every time!!!
Just saw Trek again. It’s so fast-paced -I picked up a lot that I missed the first time. Loved it again!
Welcome aboard, Mal.
The only reason they skipped the odd ones was due to lack of time (they wanted to finish before the new Trek movie premiered.) I’d bet my eye-teeth that they’ll be doing another Trek arc once the new movie season settles down.
But they didn’t skip the odd ones. They opted to cover 5 and 9 but skipped 3 and 7, which vexes me. But whatever.
Thought I posted earlier, but guess not.
Loved that ep of the podcast, guys. I’ve been real out of the GWC loop for a good month or so now but was scrolling thorugh my outdated podcast subscriptions and found this episode was on there. Just like with BSG, the 'cast really felt like talking to your friends about something you all enjoyed, and it was a lot of fun to listen to (even if the complete ignorance of Karl Urban’s role on LotR did make my eyes pop out of my skull).
The mining barge was cool and all, but I really have to ask what happens to OSHA in the future. Apparently most alien species don’t believe in safe working environments, since their ships never have helpful rails or clearly marked pits to oblivion.
And as a resident of Iowa for the past- dear God- almost seven years, I have to take issue witht hat gaping chasm. There would have to be a momumental earthquake where there is no known faultline for this to happen, especially outside of Riverside, IA. Ah, well.
Obviously built by the same company that built the Deathstar.
And as a resident of Iowa for the past- dear God- almost seven years, I have to take issue witht hat gaping chasm. There would have to be a momumental earthquake where there is no known faultline for this to happen, especially outside of Riverside, IA. Ah, well.
It’s supposed to be a quarry (there was a blink-and-you-missed-it sign.) Do they actually have them in Iowa?
There are some quarries I’ve seen, but they look nothing like the beast in the film, though I imagine starship manufacturing, as well as the population of earth and its material needs in a few hundred years, could make a strong case for such a quarry. Thanks for the tip.
Well folks, as pathetic as it this sounds, I FINALLY did go and see Star Trek on Friday. It ain’t that I didn’t want to see it sooner. Just life getting in the way, etc.
The movie: Totally frakking awesome. I loved it. I put off listening to this podcast (and #166) to avoid spoilers, and because it’s just more enjoyable to listen to the podcast when you’ve seen the movie the Crew are talking about.
The movie totally was totally true to the heart of Star Trek. And in particular it focused on the key aspects of the two main characters Kirk and Spock.
It totallly captured the essence of Kirk as the “hero that does the impossible”, “goes up to the edge of the cliff (literally) and manages to survive and succeed against the odds.”
As for Spock, one of the most interesting aspects of Spock has always been his half-human/half-Vulcan ancestry and all the emotional turmoil that entails.
Beyond that, I love that the film gave the secondary charaters McCoy, Scotty, Sulu, Chekov and Uhura all significant and exicting stuff to move the plot forward. (And I’m hoping that McCoy is made more of a primary character in the 2nd film.)
The whole reboot concept was very smartly done, and it didn’t really sink in how important that was until recently. By changing the time line, the future is wide open for this new rebooted Star Trek. If, instead, this had just been a “here’s how Kirk and Spock met” prequel, it would have lost some excitement because you’d KNOW how their future will turn out.
That’s the classic prequel problem I suppose. (For example, you kinda know that Anakin Skywalker isn’t going to die in the silly pod race, cuz otherwise he won’t be Darth Vader. So where’s the jepordy?)
Just in terms of pure movie-making, the movie moved along perfectly and slipped in a lot of fun candy to please old time fans.
For those of you who don’t know me, I am a true hardcore Star Trek fan. All the shows, many many ST novels, movies (of course), Star Trek club in HS, Gamemastered a ST (paper and dice) RPG for a number of years, yada yada.
I’m not that the type that goes dressed up to conventions and suff, but I’ve been to maybe 10 ST conventions in my lifetime. Bottom line, I don’t personally know of any one whose got more of a breath and depth of Trek knowledge as me (except for a handfull of GWCers that I’ve come to know).
So, speaking as a Hardcore fan, I loved the movie. I’m glad they made and and how they made it. The movie was generous in feeding the fancy of long time fans, and I appecriate that.
I did have some problems with the film, all of which I forgive cuz the movie was SO well done and entertaining.
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Enterprise built on Earth? Ridiculous and silly. Building any spaceship of any significant size on the ground when it could be build in space…just dumb. But, hey, I don’t have a problem with it in the movie, any more than the whoosh sound in space.
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Black holes? Eh, the movie kinda ignored any science I’ve ever heard of. I think they could substituted “worm hole” or just “space anomally” if they were interested in preventing Carl Sagan from turning over in his grave. But again, that didn’t make not enjoy the movie.
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Beaming onto a moving starship, that’s, like, already moved pretty far away?
Silly. Of course, the whole idea of a transporter requires a suspension of belief anyway. And yeah, it’s from Spock’s 129 years in the future theory. Okay. Cool. That’s fine. But, the problem is, now they’ve set a precedent. Now Scotty should ALWAYS be able to beam stuff onto a ship that’s moving at Warp and is at some kind of ridiculous range away. Isn’t that gonna be problem in future movies? Eh, I’m probably over thinking it.
All those complaints are science craap, and let’s face it, Star Trek is more about the people. And this movie totally gets that.
Also, I totally agree with what Audra said (on podcast 166) about the villian. The villian in this movie is kinda minor (in terms of how much on the screen, and how much plot devoted to him, etc) and I think that’s smart. Yes, a movie that revolves around the “heavy” villian --like Khan or Shinzon (Nemesis -Picard-clone) is fine and can work. But this movie wasn’t about that. It was about the conflict between Kirk and Spock, and Kirk vs. himself and Spock vs. his family and his loss. Nero’s role was just trappings to move all that along, and that’s good. Any more of Nero on the screen would be less Enterprise character screen time, and that would be bad.
Oh and an Uhura / Spock romance? Who knew?
Oh, waaait a sec…
Remember this? Son of bitch, Spock’s was doing her this whole time and we nevah knew it!
Well, that’s all for now. I’ll have more to say, now that my Star Trek reboot floodgates have been opened.
Great post, Thot.
Strange that it’s your Star Wars comment I will comment on. I was actually hoping for a twist in the Anakin plot. With the introduction of the clones I was hoping they would clone Anakin and his clone would turn to the dark side. The hero we know would be killed causing the audience to go WTF?!? then reveal the Anakin clone. I thot that would have been an awesome movie 2 ending, similar to the ending of ESB where you wonder if Darth Vader is Luke’s father. Between AotC and RotS, everyone would be wondering ‘Padme is pregnant with the twins but where does Darth Vader come from if Anakin is dead?’ ‘Is Anakin dead?’
Uh, yeah, Star Trek was frakkin awesome.