GWC Podcast #165: Trek XI

Trek XI opens and we’re there! Highlights: we enjoy the sports-jerseyesque new TOS uniforms, discuss the effect of alternate timelines on continuity, explore Trek XI’s new and unusual character relationships, dig into Uhura’s job description, and… hell, I’d love to tell you more, but I don’t want 5,000 “why did you spoil me” emails. Bottom line: we had a great time at the movie and really enjoyed this podcast. We hope you do, too. If you’d like to talk live with the GWC crew for the Trek wrap-up call show, give us a call at 214-296-9229 x701 and let us know what specifically you’d like to discuss!

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IMPORTANT NOTE: Unlike the podcast description, this thread MAY CONTAIN TREK XI SPOILERS. You’ve been warned.

We’re on our way to see Trek in about a half hour!!

Just downloaded the podcast, can’t wait to listen to it. Saw Trek Thursday night. So frakkiin awesome !!

What NBTR said. :smiley:

Going into Trek this afternoon - I was totally excited. Coming out - even more excited for Star Trek 12. That’s gonna be here soon, right? :smiley:

The re-booted Scotty was AWESOME. Loved the ‘isn’t life a hoot’ attitude.

Checkov was cool, but I had trouble understanding him. So did the voice recognition computer.

Not sure what to make of Scotty’s mini-reptile friend though. Hope he doesn’t turn into Jar Jar Binks.

I liked your Stargate references. Does that mean you might do a Stargate arc at some point? I’d been trying to think of good episode arcs for it, but I was having trouble figuring out ones that wouldn’t be too long.

Saw the movie on an IMAX screen today with my parents (who flew down from Iowa to spend the weekend with me). I got a kick out of it, especially the callbacks to TOS and Enterprise (with Admiral Archer’s beagle). I don’t usually go to movies multiple times in the theater, but I think I might make an exception for this.

EDIT: Oh, and I don’t think O’Neill is dumb, he just has a low tolerance for technobabble. I love the sense of humor of the Stargate shows, especially how they poke fun at themselves from time to time.

Just saw it , loved it.

Can’t shake the feeling that I’ve been waiting 40 years for this movie.
Loved Karl Urban; surprisingly really loved Scotty too.
(All that Spock/Uhura smooching! Who knew!):smiley:

Damn happy. Can’t wait too see it again!

Loved the podcast. Made laugh quite a few times. Thanks.

I thought Chris Pine really had Kirk (Shatner) character down solid. Not a false note.

Quinto as Spock was so good.
Karl Urban was fantastic as Bones.
Well I could go on and on. Everyone was so good.
Just loved it!!!

I absolutely loved this podcast. You all had great enthusiasm and wonderful observations. I especially enjoyed the thought that the Kirk-riding-his-motorcylce-across-the-Iowa-landscape scene was sensual. I’ve seen the movie (and the trailers in which the scene is featured) multiple times, and it never occurred to me quite what I liked about it. But you nailed it precisely. it is sensual. It does capture the very humidity of a summer morning in the midwest. Hardly what one expects in a Star Trek movie.

That said, I have to take exception with your caller’s views on Uhura, as well as your responses. No she’s not just a love interest for a Spock, as your caller alleged, and she’s even more important to this film than you guys seemed to suggest.

She’s absolutely pivotal to the plot here, in a way that few of the other characters are. If most of the drama in original ST involves the K-S-M triangle, this movie is all about the K-S-U triangle. In this movie, Uhura receives a bit of Shatner’s Kirk’s general dramatic functionality. I see her as the sort of “bridge” between Kirk and Spock. In the old series, Kirk was the middleman between the emotional Bones and the logical Spock. Here, Uhura’s scientific credentials and emotions are on greater display than her body, allowing her to be the bridge between Kirk and Spock. She’s the fulcrum of the Human/Vulcan, emotion/logic dichotomy in a way that was always Kirk’s in the original series. All the main beats of the movie pass through her.

If you really look at the plot points that lead up to Kirk’s ascension to the captaincy, it’s Uhura whose knowledge drives her somewhat unwillingly to Kirk’s side, while her heart and command loyalty keeps her standing by Spock. Indeed, the scene where she comforts Spock in the elevator after Vulcan was destroyed made me tear up. It’s not that she was making out with him. It’s not that she was his “squeeze”. Her wordless resopnse to Spock’s “I need everyone to continue performing admirably” isn’t one of disappointment that he doesn’t need her, specifically, to do something for him. It’s one of “we’re in this mess together and, you’re right, all of us performing admirably is the only way out.” Uhura, in other words, ain’t no pining Nurse Chapel. Sh’s a girl with serious game.

The way I look at the various characters is this. McCoy gets Kirk to the ship through medical chicanery. Fine. A lovely reversal of the Search for Spock dynamic. Scotty saves the ship by “ejecting the core”. What else do Starfleet engineers do in a crunch? Chekov mutilates the English language, shows off his navigational skills and his secondary transporter skills. Again, par for the course. But the entirety of the plot hinges on Uhura’s linguistic skills. No Klingon transmissions, no reason for Kirk to be involved in this thing at all. And then her status as a top-of-her-class officer on the ship allows her to be involved in every critical decision thereafter. I fully got the impression that she was the critical “swing vote” when Kirk took over from Spock. Her grudging, “You better know what you’re doing” carried with it the implicit threat that if he screwed up, she was gonna take him out herself.

To a very real extent, Uhura is also, interestingly, the audience’s avatar throughout the movie. It’s through her eyes that we understand the conflict between Spock and Kirk. When we’re meant to understand that Kirk is reckless, it’s because her face and words tell us so. When we need to understand Spock’s pain and his response to it, it’s through her empathy. When she hugs Spock, she’s doing precisely what we want to do as well. When she somewhat suspiciously supports Kirk, it’s again how we feel. We want to trust him, we want to believe in him, but we don’t absolutely know that we can. It is not an exaggeration to say that she’s the very soul of the Enterprise — in a way that was occasionally Nicholl’s dramatic space in the TV series.

And this alternate universe Uhura was a pleasing admixture of all the very best of what we knew of Uhura from the past, with none of the occasional incompetence — looking up Klingon in a paper dictionary, anyone? — that occasionally made the character feel superfluous. Then they gave the role to an actor who cared more about creating her own Uhura than in evoking the originating actor. Could you see shades of Nichelle Nicholls? Subtly, yes. But it wasn’t the full-throated, if enjoyable, homage that Urban was doing to Kelley.

So, no, she wasn’t under-utilized or one-dimensional here. That was Sulu and Chekov. That was even, surprisingly, McCoy. They’re mostly comic relief. But Uhura? This Enterprise was going precisely nowhere without Uhura. I’d even go so far as to say that she’s really the best thing about the movie, because Uhura’s the one character who was actually significantly better than what she had been in the past.

I’m glad you pointed this out. I never really saw her as a bridge between Spock and Kirk, I saw her more as Spock’s way of embracing his human culture without being open about.

Interesting. I just noticed that in the second trailer there’s a brief clip of a pregnant Amanda with Sarek that doesn’t appear in the film. I’d love to know what that was originally about. Here’s hoping that’s on the DVD!

I’ve thought about Stargate character archetypes and how they transpose onto Star Trek. So here goes :

James Tiberius Kirk (leader) = General Hammond, Jack o’Neill

Bones (grumpy & smart-ass remarks) = Jack o’Neill

Spock (the straight guy, wisdom) = Teal’c

Spock (the science guy) = Samantha Carter

Uhura (communications, languages) = Daniel Jackson

Also, I read in the newspaper somewhere that the tri-corder gadget has finally become real. Apparently, it uses acoustic technology to radiate heat (?) or something right through your skin, hence removing the need for surgery. :cool::confused:

Wow, what a great insight on Uhura. I wasn’t sure what to think when I saw this and have been thinking about it a a lot. But your right, she really is a bridge between kirk and spock that ends up being quite unexpected, a little uncomfortable and ultimately very welcome. I really like the way it “humanized” spock a little more in that my issue with him was that the really emphasize his Vulcan side but just kind of throw away his human side. The split always seemed to be 90% Vulcan, 20% human. It’s nice to see them acknowledge the 50/50 aspect.

That being said, overall I loved the movie. There were some pretty major issues for me with some of the plot points thought.

SPOILER ALERT

A black “HOLE”?! Come on, you guys are better at science than this! Black holes are not holes, they are singularities with almost infinite mass. So much that not even photons of light can escape the gravitational pull. The only thing you will find by going “through” a black hole is a swift death. You would think they could have consulted some astrophysicists on this or something. It’s not like they couldn’t make up some other type “temporal anomoly” or something. I would have believed it more than going “through” a black hole. Disney made the same mistake in their terrible movie “the black hole” and got just as slammed by the astro-science nerd crowd.

One last thing and then I’m done. Ok, so if your caught in the gravity well of a black hole, and WARP drive can’t get you out, how is not having warp drive going to help you. Eject the core? Spare us the cliches of Star Treks past. Assuming the close proximity blast did not completely destroy the ship outright, would it really been powerfull enough to blow them past the event horizon of a black hole? I think not. A couple of million kilometers maybe, but they needed to travel light years to get out of danger! It would have been more believable if Scotty had just juiced the engines or something.

Ok, my two major gripes are over. Favorite parts?:

The new warp drive animation.
The nod to Spocks human side.
The new bridge.
The new, “gritty” look of the engineering sections.

Last thought… They really did a great job treading carefully over what was truly hallowed ground. I thought the whole treatment was interesting, fresh, updated and respectfull of the ideals of the series. Can’t wait for the next installment.

ok, one more, did we really need an “ice beast” scene. Just thought it was unessesary. I mean,don’t they have a brig on the Enterprise? I know, I know, plot requires etc…

OOPs, that was supposed to be 90% Vulcan, 10% human…It’s early:)

I take issue with the “incompetence” statement. There has never been a show of incompetence by any of the main character/officers. Looking up Klingon in her books, I assume she’d be the only one on the ship with books dealing with linguistics, was because the universal translator at that point couldn’t translate Klingon. I think its a testament to her character that she could actually use the books to come up with a coherent response to the Klingons who were trying to figure out if they were friend or foe. And during the original series run, we couldn’t expect more to be made of her character than was. Since most of the series was the adventures of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. See how important Nichele Nichols portrayal of Uhura and how important a character she was, go and watch Mirror, Mirror.

Also, I haven’t finished listening to the podcast, but I also have some theories on Uhura’s position. Communications is a very complex and important part of Starfleet, and in our real world, the Navy. Ask anyone on a submarine and they will tell you that the guys monitoring the SONAR are as important as the guys manning weapons. I always thought that Uhura’s responisbility was to monitor all communications, Starfleet, Federation, Merchants, planetary, and even the Klingons, Romulans and etc. Who picks up distress signals? Who tells everyone when there is an urgent communication? Who is the first person to note disasters that may be occurring before help is officially asked for? It must be a daunting task to sit there and just listen for hours on end for every faint transmission and communication that may or may not be for you. Also, whether you follow canon or not, Uhura eventually creates the “Listeners” a group that is basically an intelligence collective of communications personnel. Eventually, she becomes director of Starfleet intelligence. Signals Intelligence (our NSA) is probably more important for security than any other field. Collect the intelligence, analyze, and pass that along to the proper agencies.

On another note, what has happened to communications officers? Can you tell me who performed her function on Next Generation Enterprise? Who opened hailing frequencies more times than not? Was it first Tasha Yar? Then Worf? What where they? Tactical. That seems to be a natural evolution of function. Tracking subspace transmissions, and monitoring friendly and enemy communications. The ever effecient Starfleet probably saw that Tactical and Communications, were probably similar in function.

And finally, the podcasters were spot on when they talked about her, Uhura/Nichele being pigeonholed because of her race. I think that despite that, anyone who watched the original series would realize how important her function was to the crew. Gene Roddenberry was very clever in how he made her communications officer which put her in charge of signals intelligence when your ordinary average person has no clue how important that function is especially in nautical terms and the intelligence community.

[QUOTE=Dbhyde71;178963

SPOILER ALERT

A black “HOLE”?! Come on, you guys are better at science than this! Black holes are not holes, they are singularities with almost infinite mass. So much that not even photons of light can escape the gravitational pull. The only thing you will find by going “through” a black hole is a swift death. You would think they could have consulted some astrophysicists on this or something. It’s not like they couldn’t make up some other type “temporal anomoly” or something. I would have believed it more than going “through” a black hole. Disney made the same mistake in their terrible movie “the black hole” and got just as slammed by the astro-science nerd crowd.

[/QUOTE]

The important thing about black holes is not going into them as wrongly illustrated in the movie. The “event horizon” of the black hole is where the action is at. Not the actual singularity.

I saw the movie at the local IMAX theater today. Exhilarating! 4.5 out of 5 stars. It was easy to like all of the characters, and the story was plausible enough to allow for the usual Star Trek willing suspension of disbelief.

I can see them doing two or three more with this cast. They’d be silly not to, if they have decent stories to tell. This franchise is officially rebooted!

Just noting that the reports put Star Trek at a $76.5 million opening weekend. :smiley: Warp speed.

I assume they took my call (yay!) though I’ve only listened to the first 20 minutes of the podcast so I’m not sure (and if it’s someone else’s - then totally HIVEMIND! ;)). This may not have come across as clearly in the call, as I had just begun to think about it and wanted to see what the Crew thought (and will! promise!). The thing is, I’m not saying that she’s not pivotal to the plot - my complaint is that her role, pivotal though it may be, is to be a love object. As you say, Trek XI is all about the K-S-U triangle, and that triangle appears to be about sexual desire more than anything else. I mean, Spock respects her for her abilities - but Kirk definitely just wants something else. Any triangle made up of the three of them skews towards the romantic or sexual.

For me, to have one woman character among many in this kind of role wouldn’t be so annoying. But to have the only woman character with a name on the bridge reduced to that when she could be so much more is disappointing, if not unexpected.

More when I hear the crew’s response :smiley: