Galen had a head-cat! Romo is the 13th Cylon!
Guys I just listened to the podcast and only want to answer the questions of the head characters which Anders says also appeared to the final 5 on earth. He says they were warned by these messengers who appeared to each of them differently, as a man to Tory and as a woman to him. These messengers are what Six and Baltar and possibly Kara have appearing to them. The question is are they truly messenger from God. My theory on Kara remains that she is the first human able of Flesh resurrection as was possible on Kobol. Anders basically confirmed it when he says they didn’t invent but re-invented ressurection which was lost when people started propriation. I also believe Baltar is Daniel protected by the Centurions and sent to the Colonies.
LOL! My husband and I have never seen Old BSG, and we are planning to watch it after the show ends. Your statement makes me want to see it even more! Sounds like comedy relief after we get off the current amazing BSG rollercoster.
FYI, the character’s name is spelled “Roslin”. 
I disagree with you guys on some pretty major issues, but I love your podcast 'cause it is informative, it is funny, and it is giving me lots of practice on how to not be offended by hearing points of view that differ severely from my own (great learning experience for me!). Just please, I beg you, spell her name correctly.
Sorry to get off topic. I love the exposition extravaganza that was “No Exit”. I’m REALLY excited that Ellen and Cavil were given an opportunity to become more fully-developed characters in this episode. I like Ellen much better now that she has all her memories. I think Cavil is a much more interesting villian now that he has a motive.
Welcome, Elvis, and incidentally, greatest screen name ever:D
But enough about George W Bush.
could starbuck be a daughter of a cylon? I mean she looks like ellen so…
Great information. Of course these calculations assume they knew where the Colonies were in the first place and didn’t have to accelerate and decelerate between Kobol and the Colonies in an attempt to track the colonials.
Maybe someone already brought this up, but it sounded like to me that Anders said “she” referring to Daniel when he was being wheeled into the O.R. I know he was having the speech salad problem so maybe he just slipped up but I am wondering if they could turn this around so that starbuck is somehow possesses the spirit/soul of the Daniel character. In which case, Ellen and Saul would be her parents of sorts. Just wondering.
“We drank from the firehose tonight…”
Yeah. I can forgive a whole hell of a lot in this podcast. The sheer volume of info that was packed into the episode just about crushed my poor brain.
BTW - the guy who gave craaap to Seelix was Figurski.
Word. How some other 'cast won a Parsec is beyond me… I (heart) my GWC BSG 'casts!
Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out how this new spin on the story is feeling to me. I had it so wrong. I thought the Five decided to be human and deprogrammed themselves; that the Seven were creations of the modern Centurions (and, in cylce fashion, the Five came to be from the Ancient Centurios); that Cavil knew something but was certainly not the orchestrator of events…
Actually, I find that Cavil was a much more interesting character as a Cylon model who was exercising his free will to not believe in the Cylon god; instead he’s just a shtty, petty little “kid” who is pssed at his mommies and daddies and played some mind games with them.
D’Anna, without knowing it, was right: It would be a better fate to die with ancestors on Earth rather than being found by Cavil and learning that he had orchestrated (almost) everything and frakked with aspects of their programming.
I did enjoy the nugget of the belief in One True God originated with the Centurions.
Random Question:
If Cavil orchestrated these events, how/why would the Raiders not fire on Anders? At this point in the timeline, there was still a Resurrection Hub, add that Anders would have resurrected just like Ellen did - presuming Cavil has a spare body for download for each of the Five. Thus, would it have mattered whether Anders was killed in a viper attack?
Thanks guys for another great cast–all of us on the Cavil Plan was the best.
As has been said before, there’s so much here to digest, but as I watched the scenes between Cavil/John and Ellen, I couldn’t help but think of the Season 4 episode of Star Trek TNG called “Brothers” where Lore (Data’s evil brother) confronts Dr. Soong. There’s resentment, child-parent issues, a drive to perfection, self-loathing, parental guilt–great parallels! I also couldn’t help be intrigued by this little dialogue between Data and his father, which seems to play off our latest BSG revelations nicely:
DATA
Why did you create me?
SOONG
(after a beat)
Why does a painter paint? Why
does a boxer box? You know what
Michelangelo used to say? The
sculptures he made were already
there before he started, hidden
in the marble. All he had to do
was remove the unneeded bits.
It wasn't quite that easy with
you Data. But the need to do it,
my need to do it, was no different
than Michelangelo's need.
(he rises)
Now, let me ask you a question.
Data cocks his head.
SOONG
(as if posing a riddle)
Why are humans so fascinated with
old things?
DATA
Old things?
SOONG
(nodding)
Old buildings, churches, walls,
ancient things, antique
things... tables, clocks, knick
knacks... Why?
DATA
There are many possible
explanations.
SOONG
If you brought a Noophian to Earth
he'd look around and say, "Tear
that old village down. It's
hanging in rags.Build me something new, something
efficient." But to a human, that
ancient wall, that old house, is
a shrine, something to cherish....
Again I ask you, why?
DATA
Perhaps, for humans, old things
represent a tie to the past.
SOONG
And what's so important about the
past? People needed money, they
got sick. Why tie yourself to
that?
DATA
Humans are mortal. They seem to
need a sense of continuity.
SOONG
Ah hah!! Why?
DATA
To give their lives meaning...
A sense of purpose.
SOONG
And does this continuity only run
one way, back into the past?
DATA
I suppose it is a factor in the
human desire to procreate.
SOONG
So you believe that having
children gives humans a sense of
immortality, do you?
DATA
It is a reasonable explanation
to your query, sir.
SOONG
(smiling)
And perhaps to yours, as well,
Data.D’Anna, without knowing it, was right: It would be a better fate to die with ancestors on Earth rather than being found by Cavil and learning that he had orchestrated (almost) everything and frakked with aspects of their programming.
Did D’Anna actually stay behind? I hope not…
first thing i have to say is that another example of cavil torturing ellen is when she resurrected, usually there are several cylons there to calm and welcome the resurrected cylon and ellen was all alone to figure it out…i also think her request for help from the cylon guard was more ‘cavil won’t hurt you if you help me out of this goo’ but i liked her kindness and manners towards the cylon and think it says alot about the final fives agenda…
has anyone transcribed all the ‘gibberish’ anders is spouting? he kind of reminds me of a hybrid and some of it sounded like shakespeare…
maybe ellen’s father died and she wanted a ‘monument’ to him…grand kids look their grandparents…
tyrol must be tired running between the engine room and anders hospital bed…
my take on adama’s reluctance for the cylon tech is that ftl is not a biological piece of tech…the stuff tyrol wanted to put on there was biological…i like to think that the crack in the wall in his bafroom was galactica talking to him and saying ‘this is serious…i’m dying’ and he took the drink for the liquid courage to say what he needed to say…
i also think that tory killing cali was partly survival but my first instinct when anders said that her and tyrol were madly in love was that it was also subconscious jealousy…
i also wanted to correct audra ~ starbuck made the call for the surgery BEFORE she found out she wasn’t the seven…which with his brain all out of whack may or may not be true…someone said that maybe her dad was the seven i think that’s a good theory…what’s also confusing me is that the daniels were wiped out…did they say any copies survived? i also thought deanna was the only one who knew what the final five looked like…
Yeah, she said so pretty explicitly to Tigh.
oh…and i still LOVE anders!! even more after this ep!
Great podcast, guys. I’ve listened to these for some time, and this one was excellent… it was so thoughtful I had to comment for the first time.
About Ellen loving and forgiving Cavil: I don’t think she loves him or forgives him at all. Maybe she loves and forgives “John”, her idealized image of the child she built 40 years ago, but Cavil? No way.
She treats him with nothing but contempt from the first moment to the last in this episode. He makes that tremendous speech about his fondest wish and greatest pain – he practically rips his own heart out of his chest and hands it to her – and then when Boomer asks her if she doesn’t feel any remorse for wounding him so deeply, even inadvertently, her only answer is “no, because he’s wrong”. Even her words about loving him are conditional, and directly based upon his being what she wants him to be: “If you could just accept yourself as what you are, as the boy I made, you can be good”.
Then she tells him “you can be anything”… but remember, the one thing he wants to be, the only thing he has ever wanted to be, is “wrong”. Not because it’s harmful to another, or because it’s envious or sadistic or whatever – because it’s none of those things, it’s actually a rather beautiful dream! – but simply because it doesn’t fit her worldview.
No, he is supposed to look like a human, like her father, and be her nice, gentle grandpa doll. To Cavil, who dreams of supernovas and shining machines, I’d imagine that’s akin to a form of torture. But Ellen doesn’t care – her wishes are more important than that.
Thus, her love is, as they say in the pray trade, a frakkin’ lie. She tells him he isn’t a mistake, and then, in the same sentence, tells him that he can’t be what he is and be good: which part is he supposed to hear? Listen to the way she describes Daniel, and the way she describes John: what message is he supposed to get from that? Is that love?
No wonder he wouldn’t let her touch him. She’s done something that hurt him terribly: she convinced him that he’s “broken” and “irredeemable” because he doesn’t believe the things she wants him to. I think his anger is perfectly understandable. Obviously, there’s a better way to handle it than nuking the colonies, but then again, he is a Cylon…
In short: Ellen doesn’t walk her own talk about “compassion” and “forgiveness”. Taking those things as a watchword means applying them to the people in your life as those people are, even if those people don’t give you compassion or forgiveness in return, and she is totally unwilling to do that for Cavil. What if she had treated his dream with respect from the beginning? What if her response to him all those years ago hadn’t been “you’re wrong, being human is our greatest gift to you” but “that’s a wonderful idea, John, why don’t we try to make you a metal body?” Would the destruction of the colonies ever have happened? Would he have killed Daniel and the Final Five? Or would he have been happy forever, banging his metal head to supernova music?
I’m not sure. Maybe she’s right, and Cavil was always going to be sadistic and cruel. Or maybe he’d end up always wanting the “next level”, as you guys pointed out in the podcast… though in our world, people who strongly believe that they were “born in the wrong body” tend to be perfectly satisfied when they get “fixed”, whether that means a sex change or body modification or an amputation.
But I do know that I didn’t buy Ellen’s “love” for Cavil, not for a second.
Quite right - Ellen says that in tracing their way to the Colonies they stopped over at the Temple of Hope/the Five and also at Kobol, which will add time for additional acceleration/deceleration and exploration.
FYI, the character’s name is spelled “Roslin”.
Yeah, Chuck. And Kelley is spelled Kelly. And I ain’t smiling.
Until Raslin stops treating the office of the president as a democratic-sounding dictatorship – or steps down – I’m going to misspell her name (like here) in random ways as a protest.
(And I am smiling, 'Timer. A sense of humor is required, especially among those watching the last episodes of this show.)
Update: Maybe I’ll give my iPhone a go at it. It seems to have great (incorrect) alternatives for everything else.
Thank you! I just left a rant on the GWC switchboard because I swear it’s obvious (aparently only to me) that Starbuck IS Daniel. She’s the artist but most important clue to me is she was the most contriversial character of the mini-series because the Starbuck role used to be a man and now is a woman. Plus she’s the one diging for the information about the seven from Anders. My theory, Anders saved the Daniel line by changing the gender and hiding her with Socreta (sp?). What makes her “special” is that she can resurect without a ship - She can use the building blocks of life from a supernova and recreate herself (and even her ship!). I might be completely off base about all the particulars surrounding the how’s and why’s but at the core, Starbuck is Daniel.
And if ever an episode deserved the 8-hour podcast this is it!