GWC Podcast #106

[Phil]

Luke was the product of two great Jedi Masters who lived to see the error in their Order’s ways, who had made the greatest fundamental mistakes in judgment and training that cost the Galaxy so much destruction and bloodshed. Obi-Wan and Yoda listened to the Force again (off-handedly alluded in Episode III, when Yoda said he was communing with Qui-Gon beyond the grave), and gave Luke very little dogmatic training, trusting his own power and his own feelings to chart the right course for himself. And even then they screwed him up by lying to him about Vader and his father. But Luke, who by their plan was supposed to destroy Vader, overcame their continued errors in judgment and allowed his love to redeem his father, which in turn allowed Vader to overcome his fear and obedience to the Emperor. He threw down his weapon, he symbolically sacrificed himself to save his father, which cleansed the guilt and misery and corruption from Vader to allow the good man that was Anakin Skywalker to break free and destroy his Master (not something either Yoda or Obi-Wan foresaw or believed could happen). Luke’s own insight and faith (in himself, in his father, in the Force) won out, where the Jedi way had failed. Hence, the New Jedi Order, through which Luke was able to correct many of the stagnant ways that the prior Order had fallen prey to.

I like this idea that the Jedi Order had become stagnant and basically burdened by their own dogma and organized religion. It seemed they were too interested in the Jedi bureaucracy and a materialistic understanding of the force (i.e., midicholorians). I guess once Yoda and Obi-wan got back to the spiritual nature of the force they were able to become the most powerful Jedis ever and actually help Luke from the grave.

You bring up another good point about Yoda and Obi-wan missing interpreting the role that Luke had to play in destroying the Emperor and touches on something the GWC crue said in the podcast that I disagree with. I don’t think the fault for the formation of the Empire can be laid at the Jedis feet, nor do I think that buying Anikin’s mom out of slavery would have kept Palpatine from attaining power. A major confrontation between the Jedi and Darth Sidious was already a given (most of them other than Yoda just didn’t know it yet), and I think the Empire was a fait a compli once Palpatine was made Chancellor. While Anakin was the only Jedi who could possibly defeat him, it was also necessary for him to go to the Dark Side for him to eventually get close enough to actually destroy him. The tragic thing is that once Darth Sidious became the powerful Sith lord that he eventually became, basically the the Republic and Jedi Order had to be sacrificed in order to save them (interesting that Lucas would harken back to ‘Burning the village to save the village’ logic) and that Anakin had to go to the Dark Side. The saving grace was that Anakin did have children, and while he turned to the DS and became mostly machine, Luke was alive to serve as a connection/repository for his humanity.

[Phil]

I think it still fits that Obi-Wan would say that he doesn’t recall ever owning a droid and play dumb about knowing R2 and 3PO. Alec Guiness might not have known the connection and played it straight, but in the overall storyline Obi-Wan did know the droids, but if he were to divulge that to Luke, it opens up all the backstory that he didn’t want Luke to know (although Obi-Wan is my favorite character, I have to admit that he’s kind of an ass [sorry Barb] in his jerking around of Luke). So you see that shifty look between Obi-Wan and R2, like they know a secret they’re not telling anyone else.

And didn’t Obiwan first greet R2D2 has his “Little Friend” [I’m adding an IYKWIM here only so GR and TFG won’t] as soon as he saw him on Tatooine in E4?

[Phil]

re: JarJar=Sisko. Emily, Audra’s right. There is no comparing Sisko to Jar Jar. That just hurts.

I’m not all the way through the podcast, but we’re not comparing Jar Jar and Benjamin Sisko are we?

re: how to watch the series. Considering I asked in the first place… :rolleyes: I usually re-watch 1-6, because I actually like the prequels! But it does make Luke really obnoxious. I hear everyone complaining about Anakin, but seriously, he has nothing on his progeny.

Speaking of things that hurt… I’ve always been in the minority in liking the Luke character. I see him as the one true hero of the series. He isn’t the most powerful Jedi nor is he the most cunning, but he actually sees what needs to be done and accomplishes it. As mentioned above Yoda and Obi-wan have the benefit of knowing the prophesy, but don’t get it. They are also somewhat clouded by their own hatred of Vader to see that there is still good in him. Also, Luke’s motives are always pure [i.e., unlike the more opportunistic and popular Han Solo (don’t get me wrong I still thing he’s great)]. Luke inherits some of Anakin’s power of the force, but unfortunately also manages to inherit his demons as well. Despite that he manages to remain true while defeating the toughest enemy of all… the Dark Side within himself.

As an aside, to bring the board back to BSG for a moment, I’m also in the minority (among males at least) by having Apollo being one of my favorite characters. But this isn’t a coincidence I guess, because there’s a lot of Luke Skywalker in Lee Adama. They both inherit a strong name and many key abilities from their fathers, but also get the baggage of many inner demons. In the end, both manage to save themselves and ultimately also save their respective fathers from their demons as well. In addition, both are also over shadowed by a flashier rouge compadre.

I don’t know, for some reason, I’m just a sucker for storylines and characters that involve noble sacrifices…

[Leah]

And didn’t Obiwan first greet R2D2 has his “Little Friend” [I’m adding an IYKWIM here only so GR and TFG won’t] as soon as he saw him on Tatooine in E4?

The question that was asked was is this droyd yours. Obi Wan then says I do not remember owning one. Did he own one? Did he then recognize R2D2? This is from long time ago memory so I could be wrong. I do not think Obi Wan lied.

Basically what I am rambling about is did he recognize R2D2 first of did he answer the question first and did he ever own R2D2?

[TighGetsPunchedALot]

I think “TFG” is my initials, but of course you need to bear in mind that I think everything is about me. But she may have meant you TGPAL. I don’t know how you did the glowing spine thing on Ms. Park (I’m referring to her as Ms. Park from now on, because I figure she’s probably ready this right now.), that was wicked cool!

yeah, I got confused cos I posted last, and she did say “the other guy” - so I don’t know what’s going on. Yeah, the spine thing turned out better than I expected. luckily i had a good naked back pic to work with. Not so with anders. (not that I’m looking for naked anders pics, but I wanted to give the girls and audra a little anders glow to swoon over)

[TighGetsPunchedALot]

The question that was asked was is this droyd yours. Obi Wan then says I do not remember owning one. Did he own one? Did he then recognize R2D2? This is from long time ago memory so I could be wrong. I do not think Obi Wan lied.

Basically what I am rambling about is did he recognize R2D2 first of did he answer the question first and did he ever own R2D2?

I kinda got the impression that droids were a dime a dozen and switched ownership a lot, so he got confused.

[Leah]

Dear Ms. Park,

I was overjoyed to hear you call into the GWC podcast. You are such a talented actress–BSG wouldn’t be the same without you. I apologize that some have made fun of you for not knowing how many there are in the GWC crew. But not to worry. As it turns out, you were correct. There are four—Chuck, Sean, Audra and one other person: Click here: http://forum.galacticwatercooler.com/showpost.php?p=39544&postcount=21

Love always,
Bunktime (Thotfullguy)

I meant this linked post and the fourth podcaster that Ms. Parks talks about.

[aarrgghyle]

I think it’s acceptable to think that droids were basically like disposable sunglasses in the Old Republic, and that at first viewing maybe Obi-Wan couldn’t tell one blue and white astromech droid from another. But seeing the unusual relationship and connection that his apprentice, friend and nemesis Anakin had with his droids R2-D2 and C-3PO, it’s unlikely that Obi-Wan wouldn’t have known who they were and where they came from (he was there when they were sent with Leia and Bail Organa). Obviously it’s a retrofitted analysis, since there was no way in 1977 that the audience, the actors and probably even George Lucas knew exactly what the relationship between R2 and Obi-Wan was, but their coyness in not recognizing each other and keeping the truth from Luke fits into the overall story. Obi-Wan was old, but he wasn’t slipping that much.

[ThotFullGuy]

I meant this linked post and the fourth podcaster that Ms. Parks talks about.

It is odd isn’t it, how we’re up to one hundred and six podcasts now, and still, the 4th member of the GWC Trinity hasn’t yet said one word. :D:D

[TighFighter]

I guess once Yoda and Obi-wan got back to the spiritual nature of the force they were able to become the most powerful Jedis ever and actually help Luke from the grave.

I have to disagree with that. I think the two are diminished in their power due to the prevalence of the darkside. I mean one ends up sacrificing himself after years as a hermit and the other sits on a mud ball for 30 odd years regretting his mistakes.

Also I have to disagree that Obi-wan and Yoda had trained Luke with the mistakes of the past corrected. I don’t think either Jedi really had time to sit there and teach Luke jedi dogma. Luke was pretty much on his own and had to self train as a jedi for the most part. You have to remember that at best Luke spent maybe a week training with each Jedi. I don’t think they had time to really instill in Luke what they believed. They just give Luke the tools he needs to clean up the mess they made and wish him luck. “Oh, yeah and Vader is your dad. Now go get em kid.” Luke had to rely on his own judgment when it came to redeeming his father. Since he was well adjusted and had love and compassion throughout his life he was able to do that.

[hansioux]

It is odd isn’t it, how we’re up to one hundred and six podcasts now, and still, the 4th member of the GWC Trinity hasn’t yet said one word. :D:D

Grace Park is always right. The fourth member of the GWC Trinity is “Sick Sean”, back when “Sick Sean” did a podcast by calling in. That guy sounded nothing like Sean, hense is the 4th member of GWC Trinity.

[hansioux]

Please: never say the words, “Jar-jar got lucky” again. There isn’t enough brain-bleach in the world.

IYKWIM LOL

and that Anakin had to go to the Dark Side. The saving grace was that Anakin did have children, and while he turned to the DS and became mostly machine, Luke was alive to serve as a connection/repository for his humanity.

wow, Phil, while I don’t think Obiwan and Yoda demonstrated that they have corrected their errors of the past, they simply didn’t have enough time to teach Luke everything, I loved what you said about Anakin. That he will only be able to grow strong enough to kill Dark Sid after he turned into the dark side.

And that even if Anakin didn’t turn to the dark side, there was nothing he could have done to stop the Sith lord from taking over the republic. So, in a way, in the end, Anakin still fulfilled the prophecy himself. The balance to the force wasn’t just by giving birth to Luke, but also by getting to the point where he was strong enough to be able to destroy the Sith Lord.

That’s awesome.

So even though he

[dxf]

Duh, folks… Grace Park has read the scripts to all the as-yet-unaired episodes of both BSG and GWC, so she clearly let something slip… The fourth host has yet to be revealed.

[Pike]

Duh, folks… Grace Park has read the scripts to all the as-yet-unaired episodes of both BSG and GWC, so she clearly let something slip… The fourth host has yet to be revealed.

Who is the Final Fourth?

[Weathertopfarm]

Siege,

It’s true that I am woefully uneducated about the Star Wars universe. I had hoped that as a relative noob, I could speak for others who may listen to GWC but are also somewhat unfamiliar with it.

I don’t feel like a total noob in regards to Star Wars, I’ve been a fan of the original 3 since they came out and while not so much a fan of the prequels, I am a fan of the Star Wars universe. My kids LOVE Star Wars, and it’s a nice place for us to have some common ground - not to mention I’ve seen the movies over and over and over due to them! However, I’ve not delved into the comics and books, and I really appreciated the details Sean and Chuck added to my knowledge. I also really appreciated Audra asking about some of the things that have always been a bit unclear to me. I’m sure she’s coming from a perspective shared by many GWC listeners. I don’t let my children watch BSG, so I’m excited to share the Star Wars arc podcasts with them-- they will love it!

[GalaxyRanger]

I’m just in the process of listening to the podcast (Grace Park = awesome) and I just want to say that yes Audra, beaches with black sand do exist, I’ve been to several all around the Canary Islands, it’s volcano rock but feels like actual sand.

[Old_Timer]

I’m just in the process of listening to the podcast (Grace Park = awesome) and I just want to say that yes Audra, beaches with black sand do exist, I’ve been to several all around the Canary Islands, it’s volcano rock but feels like actual sand.

Yeah right. And the Earth is flat and D’Anna is the FC. (Must think some of us were born yesterday.)

[Mike_P]

Who is the Final Fourth?

But seriously, wasn’t there actually a fourth host in one of the early podcasts? Like when Season Three premiered… or am I just imagining things?

[TighGetsPunchedALot]

maybe what grace was trying to say is that she wants to be the fourth. I think a quadrilogy with her would be cool.

[TighFighter]

I think you forgot to add IYKWIM.