The Plan - SPOILERS

Television, Movies Games and Books BSG-2003
#101

Joining the chorus of feeling a bit underwhelmed by The Plan. The kids kept bugging me, so that didn’t help much. When I rewatch the whole series, where would I put The Plan? Thots?

Either right after “Lay Down Your Burdens” or right after “Downloaded”. Unless its your first time watching, then you should wait until the end.

One complaint I had with “The Plan” was I think it ended too early. I wanted to see what happened between the end of “Downloaded” when the Cylon(z) were going to leave humans alone, and what made them come back when they found New Caprica. Do we ever get a solid reason?

#102

Hey gang, great discussion about The Plan, probably the best thread I’ve seen about it yet.

Someone mentioned he had wondered if the little boy who befriends Cavil was real or a head character, and since this is the first place I’ve seen someone even consider that possibility, I thought this would be the right place to post.

Congrats to you, sir, for making that leap! In fact Olmos did have that in mind when making The Plan and while I will not presume to speak for him in a definitive capacity, this was pretty much the idea behind the sequence.

In fact, the boy is supposed to be young Cavil, which is why his name is John (Cavil’s first name).

Clearly this idea is subtle at best and never definitively spelled out, but that was the intention - in knifing the boy, Cavil is killing off any last remnants of his compassion or humanity (while the other Cavil fails to pull the trigger and embrace this part of himself).

The failure of the Cylon plan all comes down to six’s line “you can’t declare war on love.”

Hope you enjoyed the insight, as far as I know this hasn’t been discussed elsewhere. In fact, do me a favor and KEEP it here for now, I would prefer not to be quoted on this elsewhere until I’ve had a chance to talk to Eddie and Jane and see if they’ll go on the record about this. If they are willing, I’ll do a blog post about it.

Keep up the great discussions on here!

Mojo

#103

where do you get that the boys name was John? the boy clearly states a different name in the plan.

#104

I don’t remember his name being called either way. I thought Cavil’s name for him was “get the frak out of here”… but the Battlestar wiki does list him as John. The page is even named John(RDM).

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/John_%28RDM%29

after writing that much, I think when the kid brought him the apple, Cavil asked the boy what his name was…

i am loving the boy is a head character part. The part when cavil learns the kid is named john and decides to stab him, Caprica Cavil watched Starbuck and one of the final 5 embrace out of love in his sniper scope and could go through with killing Starbuck.

every interesting theory for the kid to be a head character in the image of Cavil’s inner child or compassion for humanity. But the kid can just be a kid named John and still get the same effect. I wish if they wanted to make him a head character, they’d do it a bit more obviously.

#105

Um…you guys do know who Darth Mojo is, right?

#106

Welcome aboard Darth Mojo, I assume you are one and the same as the Darth Mojo on Wordpress?

#107

Holy crap! It’s Darth Mojo!

Welcome aboard, sir.

#108

I knew it!

Whoa /Neo

We’re not worthy. We’re not worthy! /Wayne and Garth

#109

Welcome Darth Mojo! We will do our level best to keep your comments here unless & until you tell us otherwise. Glad you are enjoying the conversation.

#110

yes…but that does nothing for explaining why the boy says a name other than John in the movie.

#111

The boy said that his name was John when Cavil asked if he has a name … same scene that Cavil kills him with the knife.

Oh, and welcome Darth Mojo! Great first post!

#112

It just seems redundant to have to say this on GWC, but show some respect. (Not to say that we should protect artists from criticism, but some decorum is in order.)

Welcome, Mojo!

#113

Thanks for the warm greetings. And please, call me Mojo!

From what I remember the boy only says his name towards the end, although I agree it’s a bit hard to hear. But it is John.

I double checked with writer Jane Espenson and she confirms that was the idea - the boy is a “head” character. In earlier drafts of the script this was more obvious and I am looking into how and why it was transformed into something so subtle it’s hard to discern.

In any case, that’s the skinny. No doubt there could have been better clues, but regardless I think this makes it more intriguing.

#114

WOW, I didn’t even think for a minute the boy was a Head Character. now I have to watch it again.

#115

I wanted to add a couple of things to my thoughts on The Plan.

First, the head character concept behind the kid is an excellent I will have to watch it again with that concept in my brain. It gives a whole new meaning to the interactions.

Second, I must say again, Bear’s music in this is simply spectacular! I also absolutely love the remixing he did for the ending credits. I LOVE that song, I shall be buying it on iTunes I think.

Third & lastly, I was pretty emotional at the end, especially with Bear’s music jamming. When that tribute to harvey came up I was very verklempt. Too bad he didn’t get to see this release.

#116

You know, I don’t think it matters so much for the story whether or not John is a head character. The juxtaposition between Caprica Cavil embracing human emotion and Galactica Cavil rejecting it is clear and effective regardless.

I do, however, think it’s really cool that we’re now two degrees of separation from Jane Espenson and have you on the forum. I’m “squeeing” like the fanboy I am over here!

#117

Ok just sat down and watched this movie… It so should have aired after season 2 as a movie to dvd like it did…

I was hoping for more like to see the final 5 when they remembered there first life even a little bit.

But my Question did that one Cavil really get Boxed or did his downloaded mind affect the other cavils?

#118

Thanks Mojo! I thought the boy as a head character because no one else was around whenever Cavil had any interaction with him…well right up until he pulled the knife out with blood on it. Then I wasn’t sure anymore.

#119

So that kid was supposed to be a head character? Hmmm, it’s an interesting idea but I’ve come to think of head characters as beings that appear with a message. I guess the kid sort of had one, which Cavil obviously didn’t learn. I wouldn’t expect a head character to die or even pay dead though.

Anywho, so MOJO what part of the effects did you do exactly?

I have a few questions about the nuke attacks on the cities, if that was your area. Welcome, by the way!

#120

Hey gang

It’s kind of a long story and I hate to break this to you, but after doing a little more digging I have to report that, if you want to be 100% official about it, the boy is not a head character. If he were, it would probably be much more obvious.

On the other hand, there are those within the bsg camp who would offer that interpretation, and certainly the way the movie was presented that is a valid way to view it. Personally, I see it that way and after the cast and crew screening there was much discussion about this (with most of the people on hand preferring that take on it) but, for the record, he probably isn’t.

I’m saying this because I don’t want word to spread that the writers said the boy is a head character, because that is not the case. The idea was discussed but ultimately was not embraced.

Still, it is left fairly ambiguous and, depending on who you talk to, different members of the bsg team itself will have differing opinions.

And personally, definitive answers being left up to the viewer is what this show is all about.