Star Trek XI (Spoilers)

I agree… Dax’s comment in Trials and Tribble-ations was one of my favorites!

I’ve been thinking more about my problem with Uhura - not the idea of the character but the way she’s set up with Spock. I think what really bothers me, besides the issue of taking Uhura (who we all agree, is dope) and making her character be about her relationship to Spock, is the teacher-student relationship between them. I’m one of those teachers that thinks that teacher-student stuff is just wrong and there can be no getting around it. I know that technically most places are OK with it once the actual student-teacher relationship isn’t there anymore, but the power dynamics involved in it bother me a lot, and if I hate anything about the movie, it’s that they’ve turned the only woman with a name left standing in the movie into the love object, and worst, a woman in a relationship with a former teacher. I just find that squicky, in Trek, in life, or in anything else.

I wondered about the whole cadet to captain thing myself, then I remembered Spock Prime looking down on the ceremony and realized that future Spock filled Star Fleet in on his importance.

Still want to know how Uhura knew Romulan dialects if no one at that point knew what a Romulan was like.

Anyone know what year this was supposed to be taking place in? According to Cannon, Kirk was born in 2230 and the 1701 was launched in 2245.

Saw the movie yesterday, thot it rocked! I’ll post more random thots as they come to me.

Still want to know how Uhura knew Romulan dialects if no one at that point knew what a Romulan was like.

Yeah, I wondered about that too. Look at it this way though. The time line first shifted on the day the Kelvin was destroyed by Nero. So everything in the entire movie was in the alternate time line except the flashback/mind meld. We know there were surviors and records from the Kelvin’s battle with Nero’s ship, where Nero was clearly seen, and (I think) identified as Romulan.

After that incident, the 23rd century Romulans tried to clear themselves, and in the process had more relations with the other species, to the point where the Federation at least knew what they looked like.

The Orion girl. Are we just ignoring Enterprise? (Not that I’m not OK with that.)

What was the issue there? Speaking of Enterprise, nothing in Enterprise should be changed in this time line, because the split occurs long after Enterprise ended.

Hee. I’ve been in a very “MUST SEE MORE STAR TREK NOW” mood since Thursday night, and I just watched my first whole TOS episode! Somehow the '60s-ness of the extras bothers me much less than the late '80s/early '90s-ness of TNG’s. Despite my husband enumerating the movie’s faults as he tries to figure out whether he liked it or not, I’m still pleased. I love the the Star Wars EU, Marvel comics, and Heroes–of course I’m not going to let little things like plotholes and continuity problems bother me!

Also, I kind of hate myself for having the hugest crush on Kirk right now. The impression I’d always had of Kirk from second- and third-hand information always made him sound like a womanizing jerk. And he was apparently more of a d-bag in this movie than ever, but… dammit, I liked him! I was not expecting that.

Re: the Spock/Uhura student/teacher relationship, on the one hand it’s interesting. Two highly intelligent people sharing that common bond and obviously enjoying physically being with each other. (I wish they’d showed the “common bond” part more and the makeouts less.) And on the other, it really does seem that they were together while he was her instructor, which I find questionable. I do hope that Uhura won’t be relegated to “Spock’s love interest” in any sequels. (Please tell me they’re making a sequel.) She was doing a great job being awesome and capable in the beginning, and then after things went down the only time it seemed like we saw her was making out with Spock, or trying to.

Still loved it :smiley:

This movie made me a Star Trek fan. I now want to go back and watch TOS.

I dig Spock in a MAJOR way. :slight_smile:

Helpful hint:

It’s I GROK SPOCK.

Major geek points.

Sadly, she was assigned to the Farragut.

Not if he beams into cramped surroundings. It’s one of the minor nits, but it was just so odd that it took me out of the movie.

I dunno, personally I loved the idea of Kirk NOT getting the girl this time. I remember Dax from DS9 had a thing for Spock as well. Besides, I got the feeling that Vulcan’s destruction & his mother’s death motivated him into becoming more serious & possibly making him spurn romantic relationships. I mean, he pretty much brushed off Uhura afterwards & she looked like it was more than a “not now” kind of thing.

I dig Kirk-not-getting-the-girl as much as I dig Kirk getting his ass kicked every fifteen minutes, but Spock? Again, odd.

Not having seen much of that series, I don’t get the reference. But it WAS established in this movie that everyone’s lives were altered the second Spock & Nero showed up in their time. Maybe not as drastically as in “Yesterday’s Enterprise”, but it’s clear that absolutely nothing from any previous series or movie is set in stone anymore.

Enterprise is, sadly, intact in this reality as it predates the destruction of the Kelvin, but they had an episode that established that the ‘slave’ girls are really the masters, and they exert their control through pheremones. Not the sort of people you’d want in Starfleet, I think.

Wow. NICE racial slur there. And you’re a moderator here? As for the sword, I don’t see the problem. Sulu seemed to pull off a number of martial arts moves for someone trained in fencing. The sword seems more appropriate for his fighting style.

To be fair, I’m assigning the slur to the writers. Although I don’t think it was racism per se, but either laziness or lack of research. Sulu was a student of western fencing (he had a fascination with Musketeer-era France.) Sure, he could have had multiple disciplines, and The Kelvin’s Destruction Changed Everything, yadda yadda. Give him a foil. That’s more interesting for the character.

I think that’s the point here, to show that Kirk is the exception and isn’t willing to accept that test’s deadend outcome.

The point in the Prime timeline is that he cheated and never truly faced the scenario. Here he did. Twice. Lesson learned, why would they even allow a retest? It doesn’t make sense.

While this is an age-old chase occurrence that doesn’t seem to make sense, I’d guess that the predator is more focused on catching the moving target than it is on eating. Sure, it’s most likely he’s hunting for food, but it’s not impossible that he might be going after an intruder on it’s territory. So it either makes sense or doesn’t depending on your POV.

That’s the best explanation I’ve heard. Still, would it have been that much harder to have him wolf down the shaggy thingy and then chase Kirk?

I had a problem with both Spock and Scotty being on the same planet that Kirk just happened to be dumped onto. But Spock did indicate that his younger self must not be even made aware of his older self’s existence. The idea of meeting your future self has long been a sci-fi tradition of implied doom or something to be avoided at all costs. Of course, this doesn’t explain why Spock DOES go to meet his younger self at the end, I guess he got homesick haha.

He does offer an explanation, but it just adds up to “I was withholding information to advance the plot.”

This reminded me of Khan’s “wish to go on hurting you” from Star Trek II. I’d guess that Nero realized the Enterprise crew pulled something & chose to not risk getting caught up in the singularity. It’s not specifically stated WHEN he marooned Spock, but it could’ve been a last-minute decision. Spock hadn’t met Scotty until Kirk came along, so he may not have been there before the Narada arrived at Vulcan.

The marooning makes sesnse, sort of, but the nearness of Delta Vega (which should be out on the edge of the galaxy) to Vulcan is just weird.

Except your car’s engine isn’t likely to explode. Scotty was hoping the cores’ explosion would provide enough force to propel them out of the singularity’s pull. Since they were already at (I assume maximum) warp & losing ground, there wasn’t much to lose by trying.

If your car is going fast enough, ejecting the gas tank and exploding it isn’t going to help. And that’s in an atmosphere, where you’d have a pressure wave.

Damn, just make Scotty do something with the polarity of the neutron flow.

Most likely a need for new Captains after losing most of them to the Narada, combined with Kirk’s field promotion to First Officer & then to Captain, as well as him saving Earth. Seemed pretty rationalized to me.

Well, they don’t have a lot of Captains but then they don’t have a lot of ships… I dunno, would it kill them to have him at least graduate before the broo-ha-ha?

I sure hope so, I don’t know that I’d be able to read through a list of disagreements from a movie you HATE, let alone respond to it.:smiley:

If I hated it, I wouldn’t have bothered with a list :wink:

I loved the new movie! I grew up watching the original series over and over and I have no real quibble (rhymes with…) with this film. Just a few thoughts to share.

Enjoyed:
• Documentary-style shooting (a la Firefly)–complete with lens-flares–to make it really hard to discern all that was going on during the battle-sequences. Very “real.”

• All the dialogue shout-outs to the original series.

• Industrial interiors of the Enterprise. Shot at a brewery, yes?

Noticed:
• Anyone else hear the tribble in Scotty’s workshop? I’ll try to spot it in the next viewing.

• The bridge view screen is now a view port, placed where the deck 3/4 spotlights were on the first movie Enterprise.

• Plot similarities (homages?) to “Doomsday Machine” and “This Side of Paradise.”

Qualm:
• The Enterprise built in Iowa? Yes, it does make for a romantic moment as Jim Kirk gazes longingly at her developing lines. If memory serves, she was built at an orbital shipyard. Nero’s arrival wouldn’t change that.

Query:
• Was that Jim’s brother Sam on the car phone, just before he sends it into the quarry?

Keep 'em coming, J J Abrams!

I found it entertaining from beginning to end. It was written so that everyone, not just hard-core fans, could enjoy it, but without being too heavy handed with the exposition / character development. There were enough references to TOS to make us hard-core fans cheer and clap. And it was easy to like the new actors playing our old friends.

I didn’t find anything bad enough to distract me from my enjoyment of the movie. It was easy to suspend my disbelief when the plot was thin or the dialog predictable, primarily because I was having such a good time!

I’m looking forward to the next two or three films they do with this group. I have a great deal of faith that they’re going to be good stories with great characters!

It looks like Kirk is now an only son, so no brother. I though it was the voice of his step father.

George was older, so he should be there, but we haven’t seen him. The voice on the phone was his stepdad.

For the record, the movie was much improved by not having the spastic 8 year old sitting next to me talking the entire time. Still turning it over, but I am officially won over now. :smiley:

Kirk shout’s “hey Georgie” to the kid he passes while driving the 'vette.

My belief:

The older george was in a boarding school or with relatives as the Kelvin didn’t allow famiies. His name was George Samual kirk. In lieu of his dead dad… he goes by George instead of Sam.

Mrs. Kirk was an officer on the Kelvin. She served up until time to give birth… which happened to be the very hour of the emergancy.

After the even she goes home and gets assigned to a home base for a few years and leaves the boys with thier uncle or stepdad whenever duty takes her away.

cannon maintained!!!

Listen to yourselves, even the NAME is racist… “Human” rights… :wink:

I totally agree. And it’s not a matter simply of gender - it’s any one whether human or otherwise!

Whomever is bitching about the “one” versus “man” bit is seriously out of date. They swapped in “one” at the launch of TNG back in the '80s.

Kirk said “man”… it’s the tradition associated with the show that this movie didn’t erase! The wussy trek changed it to “one” . It made a few hippys happy… I don’t see the big deal either way.

I do have the problem with the people who have a problam with the “man”. Get over it…it was what Kirk always said. These writers are smart and want to capitalize on 9 year old pfunks love of trek… and not my sociology proffesor’s take on entertainment and it’s effect on development.

The argument goes back to that onion video from last week. We’ve had a Woman capatain, a black captain in Star Trek. In the Real World we have a black president and Female fighter pilots, Seems like the 60’s are over… trek doesn’t have anything to prove. … isn’t it ok if they just tell a good story and say " hey we’re all good now…let’s just do like Star Trek 2 and tell a good space story".

People sholdn’t practicaly call the new writers bigots because the aren’t activly trying to save the world.

I mean they made Uhura a person with a skill beyond singing. ( thanks to Hoshi changeing what a comms officer was). So that’s a HUGE step up. What more do they need to do?

Exactly. Cheers, ladies!

We weren’t doing anything of the sort. Someone at trekmovie.com complained because they changed it from “man” to “one”.

And as for tradition? Get over it? I call bullsh*t. You obviously are not a woman, or you’d understand that holding onto sexist language because of tradition is in itself sexist. Made a few hippies happy? You do realize that 51% of the human population of the Earth is women. By belittling the “few hippies” that were made happy, you are maligning the entire female half of the population.

And besides that, Kirk only said “man” for 3 seasons. Picard said “one” for 7. How’s that for tradition?

Except he actually shouts “Hey Johnny!”, not “Georgie”.

I completely agree with Apollymy et. al. on this one. I could think of plenty more things they changed about the original that are more worth getting up in arms about than one Vulcan word. For example, if they had made one of the original characters like Sulu a woman in the re-imagined series like they did Starbuck and Boomer in BSG, then I could at least understand fans of TOS being critical. But with the single exception of Uhura, the primary cast of the movie is still just as male-dominated as it was in TOS and the movies!

The conclusion of Wrath of Khan also featured Spock’s voice doing the “Final Frontier” speech, and he substituted ‘one’ for ‘man’ there! And that was 1982, pre-dating TNG by 5 yrs.