[SPOILERS] The End of Time pt1

Television, Movies Games and Books Doctor Who
#1

First off ABA DEEBA WANNA OFFF! Had to get that out of me. Just saw the first part of the DW Xmas special. Part 2 next week New Years day. I won’t spoil any of it yet till it gets out more but WOWWWW!!!

Some of it I figured out. As in who the woman was in the church. Lets see who knows who she is.

Now the ending on Earth was a lil buggy but that’s WHO for you.

What freaked me out a bit and had my jaw drop. First who is narating the episode and who he represents.

[SPOILER] KNEW THEY WOULD BE BACK [/SPOILER]

Anyhow enjoy the watching and the discussions this week will be wild.:smiley:

#2

First off, I added a spoiler tag to this thread’s title, so we can speak freely about the episode.

Yeah, this may have been some of the best Who, ever.

Some of it I figured out. As in who the woman was in the church. Lets see who knows who she is.

My guess — and purely a gut feeling, nothing more — it’s Donna.

Doctor-Donna, from the future, somehow transcending time and space.

Now the ending on Earth was a lil buggy but that’s WHO for you.

“The human race was always your favorite, Doctor, but now, there is no human race. There is only… The Master race!” :eek:

What freaked me out a bit and had my jaw drop. First who is narating the episode and who he represents.

As soon as I saw him in the robes, I suspected it was Rassilon…

[SPOILER] KNEW THEY WOULD BE BACK [/SPOILER]

…and after seeing the end, I was certain it was Rassilon.

O. M. Gs. This is going to be something amazing! :cool:

Anyhow enjoy the watching and the discussions this week will be wild.:smiley:

Going into this episode, I never thot for a second that the Big Bad would the assembled Time Lords of Gallifrey. In fact, particularly after seeing the Oods’ eyes go red, I thot it was going to be the ancient race of demonic creatures like the one from “The Satan Pit” or Abaddon from Torchwood.

This is so much better. The Doctor vs. his own people. Awesome. :stuck_out_tongue:

#3

Oh, yes! I haven’t thought of that, but that makes perfect sense! I’m hoping to see Donna matter a whole lot in part 2, and if that woman is Donna, then yeah! Given Donna’s the only one on earth (other than Wilf in the chamber) who didn’t change into The Master, especially. I really hope to see Donna with the Doctor again and remember, and not die! I was a little teary listening to Wilf and the Doctor talk about her in the cafe. Wilf was great! I loved his little dance before he boarded his “searching for the box” bus.

I love The Master’s John Malkovich moment. Very campy, but John Simms sure have some kickass legs in lady pumps! Though, I really don’t understand why The Master has superhuman powers now (like jumping really high, etc), which I really don’t like. The Master was more interesting when he was more on the same level as the Doctor (not so much physically threatening, but just the smarts (and craziness)). And is he always hungry because Lucy’s potion thwarted his regeneration process (and caused an explosion)? Also, the prime minister guy and his daughter (who started the project) were too cartoony and lame. It all seemed too easy for The Master to come back. But, I am so looking forward to seeing more of the Star Wars Time Lords (and of course, Donna). That was pretty cool.

btw, question: - so we’ve established from the season finale that Doctor Donna had to have her mind wiped because as part human, her brain couldn’t take all the knowledge of the part doctor side, which is why everything ended the way it did. What does this mean about the other doctor (the one in the parallel universe with Rose)? He was also part human, part doctor from the same 2 way biometacrisiswhatnot that changed Donna - and yet no mind wipe was necessary, and he could retain all the memories and knowledge of the Doctor. But much as he is a carbon copy of the Doctor, the fact is that he was also part Donna human - with the way she talks, etc, and that his body IS a human body with one heart - it stands to reason that his brain should malfunction like Donna’s too, no, because a part human form of Doctor shouldn’t exist as we’re told. Then… wasn’t it really cruel for him to send the second Doctor with Rose only to have him die of a brain melt/ have his mind wiped if they figured out what was wrong with him moments later? :slight_smile:

#4

I’ve been waiting for the Time Lords to return via Rose’s alternate universe (seemed obvious, nobody had said they were definitely wiped out THERE too), it will be interesting to see the mechanism of their re-appearance.

This is the best Xmas special yet (not saying much, the rest suck basketballs compared to normal eps), can’t wait for part two!

#5

Well tried not to do any spoilers. Thanks for the change.

Yes I agree about this being one of the best Who’s we have had in years.

I can see why you think Donna is the one guiding her grandfather. I was thinking
[SPOILER] IT WAS THE WHITE GUARDIAN [/SPOILER]
We will find out next week.

Yep that was a great line there.

I hadn’t thought of Rassilon but that would make an interesting action. Considering that the Doctor [SPOILER] is actually the other from the beginning of the time lords IE Rassilon’s contemporary and easily a match for him. [/SPOILER]

YES THIS IS GOING TO BE GOOD.:smiley:

#6

I think it’s b/c Donna is a human absorbing Time Lord bio etc., whereas the Doctor 2.0 is Time Lord absorbing Human bio etc. Think of dropping water into hot oil (snap, crackle, pop, trip to er for burns) and then pouring oil into boiling water (nice non sticky pasta). Dr 2.0 regenerated from TL biology with a splash of human b/c Donna was in the mix. Donna got blasted with TL biology, like when Rose looked into the heart of the Tardis.

Loved this episode and cannot wait for next “year”!! EOT2 and Matt Smith!

#7

I am looking forward to part two, but tonight’s episode was just way too over the top for me. Friar Tuck and his daughter, who had some creepy incestuous vibe, wanting immortality? I’m sure there’s a vampire around. Bringing Mrs. Saxon back for like two seconds. Voldemort-ish resurrections spells. The Doctor walking in slo-mo in front of raging flames–seen it about a billion times now. Flying!Master being just obnxiously crazy. There was one brief, quiet moment between him and the Doctor, trying to make him hear the sound of the drums. But then everything else just got turned up to eleven.

There better be a good reason why the Timelords have only just now decided to come back. Sleeping in after the Time War, were they?

#8

Some theories in my head right now for “mystery woman”

a) RTD “reuse” answer: Rose. The other Universe runs at a different time than the Doctor’s, so she could be a much older Rose.
b) Using old Who concepts answer: Romana-everyone’s favorite Time Lady companion. President of the Time Lords prior to (and possibly during) the Time War.
c) outlandish possibility answer: Harriet Jones, Prime Minister of ghosts.

#9

Am I the only one who thought this episode was kinda… well, crap? The stuff with the Master’s regen was ridiculous- if the former Mrs. Saxon was altering/affecting his regeneration, why didn’t he regenerate into a different body? Why does he all of a sudden have superhuman/Time Lord abilities? (Flight/Super Jumping, some form of electricity, etc.) It was nice to see Donna again and Wilf’s always fun, but way too much of the episode was spent watching John Simm stand/fly around looking crazy. I get it, they’re bringing back the Time Lords. Makes sense, what with Moffet taking over, that they’d want to free up new storylines. Still. Too much of the episode didn’t make sense. Also, the few humorous scenes were awkward, as if the writer knew they didn’t quite. All in all, color me rather unimpressed. After all the hype (which certainly didn’t help), I found the first hour of Tennant’s finale to be rather pedestrian. Worse than the average episode, actually. Am I alone?

#10

No, you’re right, katebo, it sucked. But ALL Doctor Who Christmas specials are terrible, this one simply wasn’t as wretched as the rest. It’s a relativity thing.

#11

I agree with Thundercrash. Christmas specials usually never have the depth of some of the other regular episodes, but for me, just seeing Donna again (and seeing the exchange between Wilf and the Doctor) really helped me like the episode more than perhaps warranted. I guess I really miss having Donna around! :slight_smile: As a standalone episode it really wasn’t too good, but if the setups pay off in part 2, I think I would be more forgiving of it.

Thanks DoctorDonna for explaining the whole Donna vs. second doctor bit, though I’m still not completely buying how the situation with the second doctor is all that different given physically, he is still very much human, and regardless of whether he’s TL part human or Human part TL, he is still part human, and thus should be prone to the same problems of having all that knowledge as Donna did (and thus, shouldn’t exist). But then again, it’s Doctor Who! Anything goes. :smiley:

#12

Good points, COLA.

#13

I’ve been following this thread. And I’ve read through the BBCAm discussion board thread about the episode too (which has a decidedly different tone than this thread, interestingly enough).

After watching the episode last night, I think I dreamt about it all night and it has been on my mind all day.

Before I throw my thoughts into the mix, I wanted to offer up this link to the “exclusive” BBC clip from next week’s show.

//youtu.be/YQPBPjK2CV4

OK, some of my thoughts:

Loved the episode, overall. RTD didn’t make it TOO campy. He held back better than he did in Journey’s End, thank God. There were times when I felt like it was a bit slow on both action and dialog and I was wondering WTF.

Wilf–He’s such a great character and I have a feeling he’s so much more important. Besides the fact that he didn’t change into the Master at the end, his comment when he entered the TARDIS about thinking it would be cleaner made me think it was a sub-conscious thought, as if he has been inside a TARDIS before, possibly a long time ago and doesn’t remember it. He didn’t seem shocked by the fact that it was bigger on the inside, as The Doctor expected, and as is usual. Add to that the “old soldier” comment by the lady in white and the many coincidences surrounding his meetings with The Doctor and I just have a gut feeling about him.

The cafe scene was hard. There was a moment when I felt like maybe David Tennant’s own feelings might have bled through a bit: another man “saunters off” as Matt Smith will do. It has to be bittersweet, despite it being his own choice. He’s wildly popular and he’s giving that up for the great unknown of, God help him, American TV. As a character, though, it was clear that The Doctor knows he needs a companion to keep him in check, despite the consequences that befall the companions who travel with him. It’s just the way of things.

The wealthy man/daughter relationship: EWWWWWWW!

The cactus people: Who watches Being Human on BBC/ BBCAm? The woman plays the nurse/girlfriend of the werewolf on Being Human. Didn’t take me long to spot her. She has great facial expressions.

The Master: John Simms is just so good in this role. The resurrection scene was a bit cheesetastic, but beyond that he was just crazazy with a capital C. I was a bit WTF about his “super power” stuff. The skeleton stuff didn’t bother me as much as the super-jumping and the Emperor Palpatine hands. Can anyone explain this to me in the context of the history of the show or was this just a RTD choice?

The Timelords’ return: I wish I knew more about the history of the old series. I was surprised to learn that the extinction of the Timelords was brought about by RTD at the beginning of the reintroduction of the series. I always thought that was from the old series. I feel like I need a Timelord History for Dummies book.

Can’t wait for next week–and yet, dreading it.

#14

I agree that some of Tennant’s own sadness at leaving the role is there in the acting. I definitely feel it as a viewer; even though it’s the same character, it still feels like you’re losing a friend. I think he’s the only Doctor incarnation whose death/regeneration has been foretold. All the previous ones, it happened because something harmful happened to them and that particular body had to die. Correct me if I’m wrong because it’s been a while.

The skeleton stuff didn’t bother me as much as the super-jumping and the Emperor Palpatine hands. Can anyone explain this to me in the context of the history of the show or was this just a RTD choice?

As far as I can remember, all that craaaap is an RTD choice. The Master as played by Anthony Ainley was basically an anti-Doctor; he was brilliant at manipulating people and weapons to his own advantage (I vaguely recall some sort of shrink ray), but no super powers. When we first met the Master, he was pretty much a walking skeleton, a demented rogue Timelord on his last regeneration. But he found a loophole and stole the body of Nyssa’s father, continuing to live and somehow turn into Eric Roberts and Derek Jacobi and then John Simm.

The Timelords’ return: I wish I knew more about the history of the old series. I was surprised to learn that the extinction of the Timelords was brought about by RTD at the beginning of the reintroduction of the series. I always thought that was from the old series. I feel like I need a Timelord History for Dummies book.

Yeah, I was pretty pissed that RTD wiped out the whole Timelord race and the planet of Gallifrey off-screen. Seriously, what the frak?!? Just so the Doctor could be emo and whine about being alone until he meets Rose? Whatevs. Because as far as I can recall, when the series ended with Sylvester McCoy’s Doctor, the Timelords were alive and healthy and still being a pain in the Doctor’s backside.

#15

I just rewatched the episode with some friends who hadn’t seen it yet. On second viewing, my opinion is slightly altered- the things that worked for me I liked much more and the things that didn’t were terrible. The beginning with the Ood was fun and interesting. The cafe scene and anything with Donna or Wilf was alternatively touching and funny. Simm and Tennant’s performances were very strong- particularly in the scene that culminates with the Doctor hearing the drums. The visuals in the wasteland were great- very epic. The shimmered aliens were interesting and fun and the reveal of the Immortality Gate as a healing device worked and made sense.

However, the resurrection scene was laughably bad (we literally laughed out loud). The Books of Saxon? Seriously? Naismith’s creepy vibe with his daughter was probably intentional and was therefore well played, but the characters are completely shallow- they don’t make sense. They also had to deal with some terrible dialogue. Why did they mention Obama so much? This felt very out of place- why is the US President solving Britain’s economic situation? Also terrible is The Master’s newfound status as a Sith Lord. Seriously- super jumping and force lightning? If that weren’t enough, later he turns into Ironman, propelling himself with lightning instead of just jumping like before. One of the people I was watching with hadn’t seen any Who before and he was very confused as to why The Master had superpowers and The Doctor didn’t. The Master turning everyone into him seems silly and farfetched, even for him. There were other glaring issues with the episode, but these are what comes to mind right now.

All that being said, I’m still looking forward to Part 2. The stuff with Wilf and Donna looks very interesting and, once this silliness with “The Master Race” gets sorted, the idea that the drumbeat is being intentionally put into The Master’s head is intruiging. I’m curious about Wilf’s mystery woman and how The Doctor will be The Master’s “savior”. Here’s hoping RTD turns it around. I even liked Journey’s End, but this one was just too much.

#16

I rewatched this last night on Youtube, and I think I agree with everything you said here, most importantly that I’m really looking forward to Part 2.

Well-said, Katebo!

#17

Amusing review from io9. Takes RTD to task for a lot of the crraaaaaap in the episode but gives credit where it is due.

Enjoy!

#18

Well from BBCA forums it has been mentioned who the lady in white is.

[SPOILER] The Doctor’s Mother. [/SPOILER]

I got a look at the pt 2 trailer on youtube earlier. Take a look at the people gathered with the Doctor in the white room. It’s a very quick pic but we get to see who is there with him.

[SPOILER] Def the Lord President and I believe next to him either the Doctor’s mother or that see’r not that sure. [/SPOILER]

//youtu.be/ZaB3Crbz_D0

#19

c 1) yes, we know who you are.

Come on, we know it’s the wire!

(jk) :stuck_out_tongue:

#20

On the subject of the drumbeats, last season Donna also heard heartbeats - or what they thought were the heartbeats of the bio-meta doctor that’s about to be ‘born’, but since it was never fully explained (just an offhanded comment by the bio-meta doctor) - Could it be possible that what Donna heard were actually also drumbeats and have some relevance to the drumbeats the Master has been hearing even after this resurrection?

And…
[spoiler] The Doctor’s mother! Interesting! Has she ever appeared in the series (the old ones) before? What’s the mythology on her? I’d love to finally see an actual female time lord.[/spoiler]