So, who made whom/what and when, part 2

Television, Movies Games and Books BSG-2003
#1

So IS THIS what we know, seem to know and don’t know?

  1. The 13th Tribe left Kobol 4,000 years ago. They were either Cylons or humans with recreation technology (assuming those are not one and the same).

  2. They settled on Erf.

  3. Because they could procreate, they “forget” about their recreation tech (which makes no sense to me, but so what?). (But, why didn’t they “forget” about it back on Kobol?)

  4. About 2,000 years later the FF began working to reinvent the recreation tech.

  5. At about the same time the 12 Tribes left Kobol and founded the 12 Colonies. Why?

  6. At about the same time, metallic Cylons (did they come from Kobol with the 13th or were they developed on Erf?) start getting ticked off at the Erf humanoids - (whatever they may be, humans, Cylons, one and the same).

  7. At about the same time the FF, being really smart (or having chips in their brains or something), see the problem with the metallic Cylons coming.

  8. So, given Ellen’s break through, they down load onto a sub light speed ship that they have cleverly put in orbit around Erf.

  9. And they are reborn on it after/as Erf is being destroyed in a humanoid/Cylon war.

  10. At about the same time the reborn FF think “Hey, sure hope the 12 Tribes don’t go down the same path with metallic Cylons that we did. We better warn them, Bullwinkle!”.

  11. At about the same time then the FF head off for The Colonies - somehow having learned that the 12 have left Kobol (or perhaps learning that after a rest stop on what’s left of Kobol) and where they ended up in the whole galaxy.

  12. Because Einstein was correct, the FF do not age appreciably durning their 2,000 year journey.

  13. They arrive in the Colonies just a bit too late, so they cut a deal with the metallic Cylons, created by the 12 Tribes, to stop the war in return for the FF helping them build humanoid Cylons of their own ilk and giving them resurrection tech.

  14. Their first model, John Cavil, turns out to be a frakkin’ jerk. Etc.

So:

  1. Is the “dead” model 7 really a goner?

  2. What are the Lords of Kobol?

  3. Was the 13th Tribe “built” by the humans of the 12 Tribes? If so, how come they let them leave?

  4. Or were all 13 Tribes the creations of the “human” Lords of Kobol - if that’s what they were?

  5. Is Cavil the “jealous” god or somehow a manifestation of him?

And that’s just a few of my questions.

#2

My head hurts…I know you were upset with this ep OT but I loved it…As for your time line I think thats right. I hope we get to see the 7th cylon. As for the lords of kobol and cavil and everythingelse I have no idea right now. I’ve all ways felt that they were the beings of light from the TOS.

#3

On another note I got to join in on the Talhshoe last night and had the time of my life.:slight_smile:

#4

Oh, not that upset. If I could create something one tenth as good, I’d have a job in Hollywood and pretty hair myself.

#5

LOL!!:smiley:

Man where is everyone? Place is moving slow this morning.

#6

sounds about right. it also rings of playstation one-era rpg’s, where the answers are so ciruitous you wonder why anyone would bother going through the troble. no occum’s razor here!

the drilldown seems right-on, OT. especially the “WHY” parts.

#7

And several “heard” Tory (sic?) say something to the effect of the humans of the 12 Tribes created the 13th Tribe, seeming to mean that, well, the 12 were made up of humans and the 13th was made up of some sort of Cylon. Although, I am not at all sure about that and still clueless as to what the Lords of Kobol were.

But, I’ll say it again - John Cavil sure seems “like” a jealous god/god whose name is not spoken type.

#8

Are you saying cavil is this shows Ilbus?

#9

Sigh. Clearly I need to sit down a watch this damn episode repeatedly (which must be what everybody is thinking and probably doing as I write).
Thanks for the list though, OT. I’ll keep it handy as I try to suss out WTF we’ve just been told in last night ‘talking head’ episode.

Back later…:rolleyes:

#10

I think the 12 were the humans and the 13th were skin job cylons.

  1. They settled on Erf.

  2. Because they could procreate, they “forget” about their recreation tech (which makes no sense to me, but so what?). (But, why didn’t they “forget” about it back on Kobol?)

  3. About 2,000 years later the FF began working to reinvent the recreation tech.

  4. At about the same time the 12 Tribes left Kobol and founded the 12 Colonies. Why?

I thought Kobol had the same type of war between humans and cylons that would eventually occur on Earth in 2000 years and then on the Colonies 200 years after that.

  1. At about the same time, metallic Cylons (did they come from Kobol with the 13th or were they developed on Erf?) start getting ticked off at the Erf humanoids - (whatever they may be, humans, Cylons, one and the same).

I figure they were reinvented, but probably based on some form of cultural memory.

  1. At about the same time the FF, being really smart (or having chips in their brains or something), see the problem with the metallic Cylons coming.

Yeah, apparently metallic cylons are bad news…

  1. So, given Ellen’s break through, they down load onto a sub light speed ship that they have cleverly put in orbit around Erf.

  2. And they are reborn on it after/as Erf is being destroyed in a humanoid/Cylon war.

  3. At about the same time the reborn FF think “Hey, sure hope the 12 Tribes don’t go down the same path with metallic Cylons that we did. We better warn them, Bullwinkle!”.

Makes sense that the humans would take longer to reinvent metallic cylons than would the first nextgen skin jobs would.

  1. At about the same time then the FF head off for The Colonies - somehow having learned that the 12 have left Kobol (or perhaps learning that after a rest stop on what’s left of Kobol) and where they ended up in the whole galaxy.

  2. Because Einstein was correct, the FF do not age appreciably durning their 2,000 year journey.

  3. They arrive in the Colonies just a bit too late, so they cut a deal with the metallic Cylons, created by the 12 Tribes, to stop the war in return for the FF helping them build humanoid Cylons of their own ilk and giving them resurrection tech.

  4. Their first model, John Cavil, turns out to be a frakkin’ jerk. Etc.

It’s interesting to note that the FF didn’t leave all the sign posts, or at least didn’t imbue them with their apparent supernatural powers. Nice to know that the revelation of the cylon plan still does not reveal all…

So:

  1. Is the “dead” model 7 really a goner?

I hope not. Unless the dead one is reborn in Starbuck???

  1. What are the Lords of Kobol?

Hopefully, that next level of players in this whole thing that have not been revealed.

  1. Was the 13th Tribe “built” by the humans of the 12 Tribes? If so, how come they let them leave?

  2. Or were all 13 Tribes the creations of the “human” Lords of Kobol - if that’s what they were?

If humans invented cylons (a la point 3) then I would put it more accurately that the eventual 13th Tribe was built by the humans of Kobol, but that’s just semantics. OTH, if the original cylons have a non-human ‘supernatural’ origin (a la point 4) then it could be the LoK. There does seem to be some as yet unseen players to explain some on what we’ve seen on screen.

  1. Is Cavil the “jealous” god or somehow a manifestation of him?

To paraphrase one of my favorite movies, The Royal Tenenbaums, “I don’t think you’re an [sorrybarb]hole, John Cavil. I just think you’re kind of a son of a bitch.”

And that’s just a few of my questions.

Yeah, other than that it’s pretty clear…

#11

I don’t know what the frak I’m saying at this point.

#12
  1. Because Einstein was correct, the FF do not age appreciably durning their 2,000 year journey.

Uh we don’t actually know this. Given Tigh’s like what? 60? It could have taken them, through time dilation, up to iunno 40 years? At the highest end to get to the 12 colonies(2000 years for the Colonies).

Cavil killed off all the final 5 at once and then they resurected and he frakked up their memories ala Boomer. So we don’t know how long they were on their sub lightspeed journey

#13

OK - so work with me here. This is in the book. They left Erf at the time of the war that destroyed it - which we know was 2,000 years ago (seems like a whole lot of stuff just happened to happen about 2,000 years ago). They arrived in The Colonies, during the First Cylon War - which occurred just about 40 years ago. So, were they not en route for about 2,000 years? (They did stop at the Temple of Hope along the way, I believe we learned.)

#14

H - since Battlestar Wiki is melting down right now, so many are trying to access it - a semi decent alternative (that will keep you from having to watch the episode umpteen times) is Patriot Resource Battlestar Galactica. Stay away from the spoiler and speculation segments and read the episode summary and analysis for last night’s show.

#15

Im pretty sure all the tribes left at the same time, because RDM has said in his commentaries (which apparently are recorded the week the episode comes out, so its not like he has time to change his mind on things) that Kobol was destroyed by Cylons, and after the destruction on Kobol, the Tribes all left.

#16

www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/battlestar_galactica/no_exit_2.php

Not a bad recap. Warning for the kiddies: a few <sorrybarbs> in the text.

#17

“Moral of story? You never [frak] with Pinocchio!” Hah!

#18

CPC - If I could access Battlestar Wiki, which of course I frakkin’ cannot, I’d send you to the time line there. It is clear from that (as it existed a few months ago - I’ve referred to it about a zillion times), which is based on the scrolls (I believe) that the 13th left Kobol 4,000 years ago and the 12 Tribes left 2,000 years ago. The 13th stopped on the algae planet about 3,000 years ago - if memory serves, built the temple and then hustled on to Earth. (Doesn’t give them a lot of time to build and destroy their society, does it?)

IF I AM correct (if, if, if - somebody help us out here), we have the conundrum of the war that destroyed Erf and the departure of the 12 from Kobol happening at essentially the same time. It’s a conundrum (and quite a “coincidence” to boot), because how did the 13th find the 12? The last thing the 13th knew was that the 12 were still on Kobol. The only thing I can come up with, is that during the 2,000 year trip to the Colonies, the 13th first went to Kobol and learned where, generally, the 12 had gone. How they learned that, I do not know. Some old Lord hanging out with a bottle of muscatel or something.

I still suspect that the 13th left Kobol at least in part for religious reasons - their worship of the jealous god/the Lord who wanted to be honored above all others, etc. - doesn’t sound like a swell god does he/she? Sounds like a Cavil type. And I’ve always suspected that the Lords were S7 type Cylons (effectively immortal, really strong, really smart, etc.) - but have no idea whether any of this can be made or should be made to fit into the big picture and the final resolution.

#19

but I’m betting on Daniel being her father. In the show Daniel’s boxing was said to be permanent by Ellen. I want him to be Graystone, but the Old Hybrid, who said that the Guardian Cylons there thought him their god, fits better. I think we’ll see Daniel in flashbacks only, if at all.

The most interesting things to me so far are the “warnings” or Head characters. They don’t seem to fit. Why would John (the Jealous Cylon whose name cannot be spoken because he hates it and whose last name ‘Cavil’ means ‘petty’) Cavil warn anyone?

Oh, and Starbuck only lost 2 months–the time it took for her to grow?–so she came back with all the memories she could have. I’m betting she’s some kind of beta cylon (I’d be a beta tester, IYKWIM).

#20

Pretty good. It also is always worth while on Saturday to check the Chicago Tribune on line site and read Maureen Ryan’s column about the previous night’s show. Week in and week out she is one the the better writers about BSG.