Season 4.5 is Very Disappointing...

Television, Movies Games and Books BSG-2003
#21

The head characters aren’t the driving point of the whole series? We haven’t seen Caprica six for more than 30 secons (total) since season 2. How can you say that?

I’m also not saying you shouldn’t care about certain plot points. I will suggest, though, that to lose sleep over certain plot points that are not central to the narrative is counterproductive and constitutes a misreading of the entire story so far.

Life doesn’t wrap up in neat little bows. Why should fiction?

EDIT:
As far as giving the writers “a break they don’t deserve” goes (I feel like we’ve been here before…): I’m sorry, but it’s the writer’s prerogative to do what s/he wants with his/her artistic creation. Who are we, as the audience, to impose our own desires upon the artist? If you don’t like what a writer/artist/composer/actor/etc. is doing, then drop the book/stop looking at or don’t buy the painting/don’t listen to the piece of music/walk away from the performance. The only way we, as the audience, get a vote is with our wallets (granted, that’s a pretty important vote). The question then is: are you going to watch next week’s episode if you didn’t like this one or any of the ones leading up to it?

(By the way, I don’t mean to get confrontational, particularly on this forum, but this criticism struck a chord with me for some reason.)

#22

“The head characters aren’t the driving point of the whole series? We haven’t seen Caprica six for more than 30 secons (total) since season 2. How can you say that?”

shes been driving almost everything they’ve done since they left Caprica, how can you say they’re not critical? imagine all the stuff that would of never happened without Head six.

“I’m also not saying you shouldn’t care about certain plot points. I will suggest, though, that to lose sleep over certain plot points that are not central to the narrative is counterproductive and constitutes a misreading of the entire story so far.”

they are critical,head six has always had information that nobody else knew,driving them in the direction she wanted them to go. how can you say its not critical that we find out how she knows all this? or what she is?

she knew about Hera months before she was even thought of. thats got to be important.

#23

Ah, but did she? Head Six never says anything that couldn’t be interpreted as something Baltar himself could’ve known. What DID she know about Hera? She just kept telling Baltar that they would have a baby together. This could be interpreted as Baltar’s guilt over not giving in/realizing how much he really did love the woman he and we have come to know as Caprica Six. When Athena arrives on the Galactica with child, he (and we) assume that THIS is what Head Six meant. But is it? Can we say that with certainty?

Nobody else sees Head Six but Baltar, though, and his hasn’t been a driving position in the leadership of the fleet for a long time. I’m not sure how you see Head Six as driving everything that the fleet has done since they left Caprica.

#24

She told him Kara was special way back in season 1,want to explain how Gaius knows that on his own?

She showed him the Cylon equipment on the ship that nobody noticed,how would Gaius know that on his own?

at one point, she held Gaius up so he could take the beating when he was trying to re-enter his liar and the guards wouldnt allow it.

Gaius had no way of knowing a child that would change the world would be born, head six mentioned it to him before anything was known about Helo and the 8. Six called Hara the sign of things to come before she was even born.

what about the six who came on board and knew everything Gaius did, and then disappeared without a trace?

#25

I can only speak for myself, but I enjoyed this episode. I liked seeing the flashbacks for characters that I’ve followed through their journey at a time when they made the decisions that ultimately set in motion events that brought them to where they are today. I know that most of these characters are going to die in the next episode. Even without death, this is an end to their stories. To see them as normal people, even unimportant people, their loves and their faults and the tapestry of their lives when they still had lives worth living makes losing them even more difficult for me.

I know others will disagree with me when I say that I don’t need or even want all the questions and mysteries answered for me. I don’t want everything wrapped up neatly because life isn’t wrapped up neatly - its messy. The journey is important for me and BSG has been a great journey.

#26

I think more writers frakkin’ well better do what I want them to. Exploring their own ideas is nice and everything, but they can’t just make craaaaap up. I mean, it’s my show, too. Wait, scratch that, it’s not…

I didn’t find part one particularly satisfying, but as others have noted, it’s just part one. It’s like stopping [insert your favorite epic movie here] after the first 30/40 minutes. Yes, I have questions, objections, and concerns. But I’m not handing down a judgment until I sees it all.

At least they’re not introducing a wise-cracking new teenage character.

And, please, if we get Zak Adama in a flashback, can’t we get a scene with Billy?

#27

Well, I give a frak about who the Lords of Kobol were, who the jealous god was, who the god whose name must not be spoken was, what is the mystery of the opera house, what the head are characters all about, what was the mystery ship that flamed Bull Dog in “Hero”, what is Starbuck now (and all the related issues of distances travelled, etc.), who did 6 speak to in the market place (stay tuned for The Plan), how the hybrids (especially the OGG) know so much, whether the fate of these characters is being controlled or is random, etc,. because:

  1. Many of the above are important to and interesting in the context of the cycle. At least as interesting as what we now know is Baltar’s trite background - “poor boy makes good and is embarrassed about his origins” so he “changes” himself, etc.

  2. The cycle is the writers’ (brilliant) idea and I would like to know the pieces to its puzzle. The Lords, etc. seem essential to that end.

  3. Many of the above are issues set up by the writers, seemingly for a particular purpose and to picque the viewers’ interest and get them thinking about the show (indirectly making money for the writers) - so it is not unreasonable to hope for answers or resolutions.

  4. In her Trib article today Maureen Ryen refers back to an earlier interview with RDM in which he said the end of the saga came together with the realization that the show was all about the characters (and what happens to them). It’s difficult for one to take exception with the creative force behind this show - but I beg to differ. The saga RDM has created certainly is very much character centric and driven. That is a wonderful thing. But it also is a story - it has a plot. It has set up mysteries in the context of a cycle. Those of us who are curious about those things would like some answers.

  5. And maybe we’ll get them. But if not, I for one will be disappointed that in the limited time the writers had left (and RDM was the lead writer on the last 3 hours, as he should have been) to wrap up this epic there was a scene with a drunk Lee Adama chasing a pigeon (unless, of course, that holds the clue to who were The Lords of Kobol).

#28

I think the episode was awesome! You can feel the action raising to a big climax. By itself, maybe it’s not so great, but it’s meant to be considered in context of what’s to follow, Parts 2 & 3. All the tangled plot lines, confusion, and crying is being released at once. The end is starting, Adama and Starbuck know what they’re going to do and they will do it!

I think you’ve gotten more answers than you think. RDM has no problem being mystical and coy with things that are mystical/supernatural/metaphysical. The only definitive explanation involved people, Anders and Ellen, who where there describing what they saw and what they did. But they didn’t have answers for things that were out of their experience. Anders said he had no answers for Kara and that’s because he wasn’t there for those events. Those other things that are the sorts of things that are mysterious in real life, and so they will be a little mysterious in BSG. Example, the Head characters. Baltar has said that they are angels and that’s going to be that.

As for Starbuck, the Adama’s have said they don’t care about how she came back. I think we’re expected to have the same attitude. It was a miracle and those beings who affect miracles only take credit without explaining their mechanisms.

#29

this is THEIR story that I want answers to. they set up the questions, its not unreasonable at all to expect them to answer questions that they set up for the purpose of keeping people interested.

maybe if you took off your “everything BSG does is perfect” glasses you could see that this show does actually have some flaws.

#30

One more point re all this and I’ll let it go. I agree with what you have to say about the characters. But the desire for many of us to have some big plot questions answered is very much tied into the fact that the writers have put a never ending cycle at the center of their entire plot.

Life is messy (or life is life), but the saga has well reflected that in the narrative of the present and, I suspect, will leave a lot on the table about the future when the show wraps. Those situations are different from throwing historic “events” on the table, stating that they are essential to the story and the cycle and then leaving them hanging. That has nothing to do with life being messy. That’s just problematic story telling.

Of course, there are two hours left.

#31

Well, I do, although Old Timer has me beat. I’d like to understand who went where when, and what the driver’s were for all the ‘cycle repeats itself’ stuff.

I’ve recently (and for the first time!) plowed through all of BSG and would’ve welcomed back-story during any part of it. The revelations now would have a nice ‘Aha!’ factor.

#32

Good point OT ! So maybe Starbuck is not a hylon, maybe she’s a Lord of Kobol.

Maybe, we’ll find out. Not counting on it though.

#33

Well if “things” like that turn out to be the case (no explanation for Starbuck or head characters), the ending will be a terrific disappointment to me. One of the aspects of BSG that I have most enjoyed is that is always kept (at least) one foot in our universe - our reality. Unexplained rebirth over zillions of miles and angels - sorry, then we’re talking fantasy and the easy way out is being taken.

Now, a response to that of - well too bad, that’s not what this show is about, etc. - is, well, responsive. But it doesn’t mean that I am “wrong” and others are “right”.

I remain hopeful of answers to come. (I do fully agree with you that it is a key character device for Starbuck to be told by those who love her that they do not care what she is.)

#34

See that a incredibly minor question really. They are just the gods of the the BSG world. I never thought they would ever answer that question. The Scrolls of Pythia just exist. I dont give a frak about who wrote them.

#35

I’ll split the diff. with you and say that we get an hour of reveal and a second hour of bang. All that’s left after that is to watch the characters we love die off one by one. With Sam acting as the Galactica’s computer will the Colony fire on him???

#36

its not an incredibly minor question, they’re the ones who they were following the entire time. to just say that all of the time they spent following their guidence means nothing now is bad writing.

#37

I’m enjoying the ride. I did think, “Well, that’s pretty, but I’ve got no clue what it means” with Lee chasing the bird around, but this is also Act I of a three-act finale rather than its own story. (I really wish there wasn’t a week-long intermission, but that’s beside the point.)

As for definitive answers, I admit that I’m a fan of ambiguity and am like Sean in that I hope some things are left ambiguous. That said, I don’t think it devalues the importance of the mythological questions of the show, such as the Lords of Kobol, if they go unanswered at the end. I like pondering the big “life, the universe, and everything” questions in real life, too, but I don’t ever expect to definitively answer what the true meaning of life is or the nature and existence of the divine and so on. The asking and the struggling is the interesting part, not to mention the only part you can depend on. Answering them too patly runs far too high of a risk of a “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain” problem.

I’m also not despairing because I think we’ll get at least little more on Starbuck and on the Head Characters before the end, even if what new details we get still leave the implications of their true natures open to debate. The episode did start with a wide-shot of the galaxy, after all–you can’t get much more visually “we’re going to tie this all together” than that.

OT, I admit I’m surprised you’re not heartened by the inclusion of flashbacks; to me, that seems an indication we are going to get to see the cycle in action–maybe the loop is just tighter than we thought.

#38

I couldn’t agree more!!!

With perhaps the episodes dealing with New Caprica, much of the magic that existed in episodes like “33” was never recaptured. I also hate that the Pegasus was destroyed!!! RDM said they had to do it over costs and they wanted to build the baseship sets… frack the baseship ideas!

The Final 5 stuff… that all seems so rushed and so unrealistic. And before anyone reminds me it is a TV show…RDM in podcast after podcast said he wanted to make a ship that you could believe existed, saying that NO ONE really believes that a ship like the U.S.S. Enterprise could really exist.

Maybe I am just venting… but the last half of this season we could have done without, the way they left if after season 4.0 was a better conclusion and more fitting to the true nature of the show.

You know it is one thing to put an expectation so high you can’t meet it, but this is just shit! Sorry Barb.

#39

I am less concerned about having the “big questions” answered than I am about seeing what happens to these people. It’s the people that I care about. If Kara has come to terms with the fact that she died and came back and doesn’t need to know specifics - then I am too. I am thrilled that Lee and Papadama are okay with her and love her anyway. Those are the moments that make this show great. In the last couple of years we’ve gotten so caught up in answers - who is the fifth cylon, what is starbuck…and that is partly the writers faults. But I think we as fans have latched onto these big questions and I don’t think they are the point. I think the point has always been that this is a story of people struggling to survive - can a society survive after the kind of holocaust that they experienced - how will that event effect the people themselves and their relationships?

Ultimately I care about Helo, Athena, Hera, Starbuck, Apollo, Roslyn, Baltar, Adama, Tigh, Caprica Six, Anders, Ellen, Galen…I want to see their story and I hope to god they all survive, - the I know they probably won’t. My heartbreak will come from seeing them die or lose the people they love.

I have faith that the finale will be a great episode of television.

#40

Thanks Glimfeather, you listed most of my questions. And, yes, I not expecting all the answers, yes I am thoroughly enjoying the journey.