Potential Spoiler: SciFi's "You Will Know the Truth"

Television, Movies Games and Books BSG-2003
#21

This sort of thing causes me to question my own sanity BTW. For example - during the past half hour or so instead of doing things that need doing I’ve been mulling over items that can easily be explained as dramatic devices necessary to a good story, like:

  1. Bill Adama being around when “unique” things occur - like on the base star in Razor and the premise for Hero;

  2. Presumably Adama reported to his superiors what he saw in Razor - but so what, war’s over, what’s a little on going torture between those at peace? And what did he make of the disembodied voice and statement of the OGG? And why the surprise when humanoid Cylons show up - knowing that “they” were trying to accomplish that per the horrors Adama discovered 40 years earlier?

  3. Just why does the Adama discovered base star become a “renegade” ship with a “dead end” experiment - the OGG being Greystone?

  4. And why the mystery about who/what “shot down” Bulldog? Adama’s demotion to Galactica really does not make any sense. Neither does his guilt over undertaking the mission at all or his belief that it somehow prompted the second CW.

And on and on.

#22

yes adama was surprised, but he also did guess it with leoben, at ragnar anchorage. leoben was looking sick, and adama surmised he must be a humanoid cylon. that’s a big leap, but adama had seen those experiments.

#23

Very well done.

#24

And you know, it gets deeper. Adama probably also knows from his childhood about his father’s “involvement” in Greystone’s attempts to take his company’s Cylon technology to the next level - humanoids.

I wonder if there are “things” that Adama knows, that he is not talking about, that are important to the resolution. We’ve “heard” (mostly from Olmos himself) about how Adama’s despair (or whatever one wants to call it) gets worse in Season 4. Perhaps that development will not be simply a result of the condition of Earth.

#25

Oh great, now I’m back to my The-5th-Cylon-is-Tigh’s/Six’s-Love-Child, just when I was coming around to Gaeta’s the 5th. Three things in this point me there. 1) The image of the Cylon fetus. Recycled or not, what are we supposed to think. 2) Lee’s statement that they believe the 5th to be dead. Misstatements tend to be weirdly prophetic in BSG land. Finally, 3) I was reading over OGG’s statement and realized, with the exception of the “redemption” bit, it might describe birth pretty well. Throw in a little reincarnation and that’s handled.

It’s still all a bit of a stretch, but I’m leaning that way again.

#26

Oh, am I the only one who thought of the Circle when you say Gaeta and Zarek arguing?

#27

OK my old friend - but if you’re going there, I’m going back to Derrick, because he had encephalitis and was cured with amazing speed (and no way because of laying on of hands by Baltar). (Boy, what must the new comers to GWC think?) Of course, this completely ignores what D’Anna saw and sketched (see below).

The OGG redemption bit is huge, WIMH. Everything else OGG “predicted” (quotes because I don’t think he predicted anything - I think he’d seen it all before - somehow) has occurred (including the part re Kara). The only “one’s” who need that sort of redemption are the S7 - so back to the D’Anna hypo.

Consider also that D’Anna saw 5 adults (or at least non-children) in the Oprah House.

Finally (or again finally) - no character is showing any awareness of being the FC. Indeed, “all” appear to be showing signs to the contrary. Assuming that at this point the FC knows he/she is the FC, D’Anna, knowing that she is, would/could hide her awareness.

And put this in your pipe and smoke it - although I don’t know which wait this tidbit necessarily cuts [spoiler]It’s out there that when “they” leave Earth (c’mon, they have to - at some point), “they” leave D’Anna behind. Why her of all “people”? Is there a tie in between this “fact” and Lee saying that the FC is dead? Is there some reason to leave the FC behind about which we do not yet know?[/spoiler] Or is it a Ben Bones/Treasure Island thing?

#28

Thank you. This isn’t gospel but I think it’s pretty strong.

I think they learned this in Resurrection Ship part 1 (when Baltar ‘repeated’ Caprica Six’s words to Helena Cain), and as I said, the main structure of Razor (Lee as Commander) occurs after Garner’s death… as Craprica says and I’ve just read… er…

Here’s what I think. The intensity and gratification of the celebration montage in Revelations renders any idea of the planet they found in that episode not being Earth dramatically vacuous and insults the audience. The Ellen/Saul scene in the bunker on New Caprica was worthy of Romeo and Juliet, not to mention Tigh’s “not all of them” back onboard the Galactica in Exodus part 2, which was one of the most heartbreaking lines in the series, and if she didn’t die then the Writers’ credibility did.

As a dramatic device the fact that the entire opening (excluding “are you alive”, which was prologue-ish) scene revolves around Adama indicates that he is central to everything about the show, so I think it’s no coincidence that he’s in the thick of the “unique” occurrences. I think you’ve totally got that right and if the answers don’t revolve around Adama then again I’d say it’s weak writing.

Exactly.

I just think it’s a mighty BIG leap. 40 years from the development of mechanical robots to perfectly identical humanoids and he guessed it? His hand in the goo doesn’t explain that for me.

I have to beg a difference here. Graystone created ‘avatars’, which (as far as I can tell) are similar to head characters. When Zoe wanders through the crowd in the nightclub she’s not a physical being like the Significant Seven are. She’s more a virtual reality manifestation of a downloaded consciousness. Of course, it’s stupid of me to say she’s not an early version of a humanoid Cylon without having seen Caprica but if she is why the big shock to the Colonials when the humanoid models turn up.

I understand the argument that Adama learned something about something when he was a kid and that’s why he spotted Leoben, but if BSG needs Caprica to support it then something’s gone wrong.

FWIW I’m not letting go of Boomer until the DVD commentary.

#29

I agree completely. That planet not being Earth wouldn’t work because it would be a big twist for the sake of a big twist. Same with Ellen being a Cylon. A big shock with no meaning. Battlestar’s too well done for such things.

#30

Hrumph. You know how the whole S2 and S3 single-episode story arcs were a result of the Sci Fi Channel suits wanting to get channel surfers interested in the show? I worry that S4.5 is going to end up being a) the Writers’ cack-handed attempt to spin as much kudos for themselves as the writers of “who shot JR?” did, and b) SFC’s swansong before it mutates into ‘Beyond’ or whatever reality-TV-show-driven drivel it becomes.

#31

Thank you. This isn’t gospel but I think it’s pretty strong.

Wow! That is pretty convincing. Thanks for passing that along. I would not be surprised if this turns out to be a credible direction for the show to go on in its last 10 episodes. Cool.

#32

Compellilng is more descriptive.

I think they learned this in Resurrection Ship part 1 (when Baltar ‘repeated’ Caprica Six’s words to Helena Cain), and as I said, the main structure of Razor (Lee as Commander) occurs after Garner’s death… as Craprica says and I’ve just read… er…

I typically retreat to the excuse of advanced age.

Here’s what I think. The intensity and gratification of the celebration montage in Revelations renders any idea of the planet they found in that episode not being Earth dramatically vacuous and insults the audience. The Ellen/Saul scene in the bunker on New Caprica was worthy of Romeo and Juliet, not to mention Tigh’s “not all of them” back onboard the Galactica in Exodus part 2, which was one of the most heartbreaking lines in the series, and if she didn’t die then the Writers’ credibility did.

Spot on and I truly cannot imagine the writers taking this hack approach. Should they - I’m back to watching reruns of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (starring Richard Basehart and David Hedison) - you had to be there.

Take your shot at the D’Anna hypo. I have a thick hide.

As a dramatic device the fact that the entire opening (excluding “are you alive”, which was prologue-ish) scene revolves around Adama indicates that he is central to everything about the show, so I think it’s no coincidence that he’s in the thick of the “unique” occurrences. I think you’ve totally got that right and if the answers don’t revolve around Adama then again I’d say it’s weak writing.

Has to be and when Adam “only connects” he plummet(s)

I just think it’s a mighty BIG leap. 40 years from the development of mechanical robots to perfectly identical humanoids and he guessed it? His hand in the goo doesn’t explain that for me.

It certainly seems to be a bridge too far - but he did see the attempt at creating humanoid Cylons. Some “connection” is possible as a dramatic device and not as disappointing as other possibilities we have visited.

I have to beg a difference here. Graystone created ‘avatars’, which (as far as I can tell) are similar to head characters. When Zoe wanders through the crowd in the nightclub she’s not a physical being like the Significant Seven are. She’s more a virtual reality manifestation of a downloaded consciousness. Of course, it’s stupid of me to say she’s not an early version of a humanoid Cylon without having seen Caprica but if she is why the big shock to the Colonials when the humanoid models turn up.

As noted, we do not know enough about Caprica (and never may know more at the present rate). For example - “who” knew about Graystone’s work here?

I understand the argument that Adama learned something about something when he was a kid and that’s why he spotted Leoben, but if BSG needs Caprica to support it then something’s gone wrong.

FWIW I’m not letting go of Boomer until the DVD commentary.

Cannot effectively argue against any of that.

#33

Pike?

I totally agree, based on what has occurred to date. However, and I am not going to code this as a spoiler because it’s so ephemeral. there is “talk” out there that what has been found is Earth 1 (for lack of a better term) and that Earth 2 (our Earth) is still out there.

Whatever, I’m pretty please with myself, being that I’m a Cylon and all.

#34

Remember also that Adm. Adama knew that the radiation of the nebula affected Cylon technology. It wasn’t just that he saw Leoben getting sicker, but he was aware of the cause. Throw in Leoben’s little dissertation on Cylon’s getting souls and that smuggler’s seeming awfully suspicious.

#35

FWIW I am going on EJO & the rest of the casts word on these last 10. All of them to a man have said it’s amazing stuff. Actor’s by the nature of their business are hucksters for the product. However, rarely are they this animated & vocal about the quality of the writing unless it really is that good. This is especially true of EJO.

You heard it here first, Boomer is going to be HUGE in the last part of this. She has a LOT of things to resolve. She is going to be key.

D’Anna is not the FC. As for her being left on planet? Given her eratic & reckless behavior in the recent past? There are any number of better reasons to leave her behind. If she is the FC, my faith in this show has been horribly misplaced.

Ultimately, I believe we have the clues to determine who that FC is. The problem is we have no keystone in which to start putting them together around. It’s essentially a puzzle without the edges in which to start with.

edit

Ya know…the more I think about that fetus pic…the more I start to lean toward resurrecting my Helo being the FC theory. Tigh impregnating Caprica Six brought that into play in a BIG way. We now know that FF can reproduce with the S7, with love present. Helo, very obviously loves Athena. They obviously can reproduce with love present. Now, I have to ask myself, why would the writers have 2 babies born as half cylons? It seems a bit redundant to me. as a plot device it seems like, to me, that it would be more significant that one is half cylon & the other is full & the audience doesn’t even know it until the Tigh reveal. That Tigh reveal is much bigger than we know. Throughout the show Helo is the most “human”, the most forgiving, the most understanding & essentially the best out of all of them. Him being the final cylon would make any & all prejudices against the humanoid cylons being unfeeling machines essentially null & void.

#36

Gee - I think having one of the S7 line modeled on the FC is an interesting twist. And not that far afield from the Boomer school of thought - which has some traction.

When it comes to Helo - there’s that redemption thing. And the gender issue. Not to mention the widow’s peak. Which points towards the FC being a character from a campy comedy from the 1960’s.

#37

Eddie Munster is an ingenious reveal. I have to wonder though, what redemption does he require?

I also have to seriously wonder…is the redmeption required for the character themselves? There has been much suffering & it can be argued that both factions require redemption for their “sins”.

#38

He has been a difficult child.

There is that.

#39

But Helo is in the Last Supper photo.

Boomer is all about basing one of the S7 models (the first) on her. This scenario explains the Cylons’ ability (and desire) to create humanoid Cylons in that forty-year gap, and it provides a compelling (:)) explanation for the hungering for redemption, seeking the light , howl of terrible suffering reference.

#40

Yep - I like it. But I’m not quite ready to chuck the D’Anna to Roslin line about realizing you’re one of them. Still for purposes of the overall story arc, Boomer seems to make more sense. Does she know “who” she is?