Luke/Leia Incest Perspective

Television, Movies Games and Books Star Wars
#1

As I’ve proudly pointed out a couple times on the forums, I share a cool trait in common with our hero Luke Skywalker: I’m a guy with a twin sister. Fortunately, unlike our illustrious mythical pair, we grew up together with the same last name, so we didn’t have to deal with the icky awkwardness of discovering that we were related. Of course, people still try to be cute about it and make suggestive comments, especially considering the fact that she married a guy with the same name as me (he’s a handsome, freckled redhead who looks nothing like me, BTW). But after nearly thirty years, the incest jokes get old.

We’ve been through a lot of crap together and are quite close, so I don’t like when people insinuate things about our relationship, even in jest. So when the jokes started rolling here on the boards, I was naturally a little squeamish. Luke’s attraction to Leia is obvious, and sadly funny and awkward in hindsight, and makes us giggle. Totally fine with that, and I hold nothing against anyone for that reaction, especially because it’s a fair bet that most people on the boards aren’t coming at it from my perspective. So, speaking from my own perspective, I just feel that some of the jokes crossed the line. They made me uncomfortable, and I hung back from joining in the threads for the Star Wars discussion.

I want to be clear that I don’t take anyone’s jokes on this matter personally. I’m not attacking anyone who’s made them or trying to point fingers or make anyone feel bad or guilty. As a Christian, I’m paranoid about people thinking I’m a prude, but this is as much a personal thing as moral. I thought I’d try to air my thoughts constructively instead of stewing about it, and see what everyone thinks. I think this place is a great environment for that sort of thing.

Ya’ll rock.

#2

I’d respond but I can only think of gutter jokes so I don’t think I will

#3

Hey Glimfeather. Totally appreciate your comments and airing them in the way you did. I actually had a similar experience during the BSG episodes when Starbuck’s past abuse was being shown and then explained in a variety of ways. There were comments and threads on this and other boards about how her mother used the abuse to mold and shape her and to help her find her destiny. I was physically abused by several family members growing up, and the way that her abuse was portrayed just really really bothered me, as did the discussions that people were having about it. In fact, I thought that RDM had crossed a line, and that to show abuse in this way was just plain wrong. I still get uncomfortable in the end scene when Starbuck goes to her mother’s bed and is “finally” with her when she dies and they have a make up scene. Being with her mother when she died wasn’t what Starbuck needed to get on with her life - coming to terms with the abuse and how it wasn’t a reflection of her worth was.

When other people view it, not having been abused, they don’t bring the emotion and the memories with them, but I just can’t do that. To hear people talk about it jokingly, or even academically, still really bothers me. I realize this is a bit different than your situation - but I do understand being sensitive to something and having a particular perspective, and having to listen to the same tired crap over and over again. I have been hearing people justify and explain away child abuse my entire life and to see it again, with the same old arguments and “they were doing the best they could” crap is just sometimes frustrating.

For me there’s been no answer for any of this than to stay away from those discussions - I just get too emotional and too upset, and it’s just not worth it to discuss BSG…and I realize it’s my problem…

#4

dude, i hope it wasn’t my ignorance sig cause the reason i put it up was to prove that GL writing leia as the twin other was a BAD idea and in bad taste considering the footage and obvious attraction between them in star wars and empire…especially after all his crap about writing kid friendly material…that’s kind of a touchy subject at best to introduce the incest angle/question to little kids IMO…i’m all FOR luke having a twin sister, just not having that twin sister turn out to be a girl he has sexual feelings for!! i am guilty of purposely trying to make people go “ew” to make my point and am sincerely sorry if it offended or encouraged jokes at your expense :slight_smile:

that publicity still is the only proof i have that GL did NOT originally intend for luke and leia to be related (my other sources are the story book and the novelization ~ one has luke as an 18 year old farm boy and leia as a 16 year old senator though neither’s age was ever spoken on screen… how could they be twins if they were two years apart??) my ex hubby divorced me over my feelings about luke and leia being brother and sister (he got sick of hearing me go over and over it like crazy lady in ‘misery’!! but i divorced him for scaring me with zombie noises!)

thank you for sharing your perspective :slight_smile: it makes me even more adamant in my crusade to have leia removed as the other by changing just a few lines of dialogue in return of the jedi!!!

#5

Well isn’t that a misleading thread title…

Kidding! I kid!

If it makes you feel any better, Glim, it’s pretty clear that George didn’t decide that Luke and Leia were related until about the time of RotJ (one example: the ages given in the script of Star Wars don’t mesh.)

Hybrid, unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately) people who haven’t lived through that tend to treat it as mythic stuff. It’s going to take a lot more people writing/producing their side of it before it sinks into the general consciousness.

#6

livia,

I wouldn’t worry, Glim was pretty clear that it was no one thing, but the accumulation of things that made it necessary for him to speak up. I think it is a real testimony to the unique nature of these forums that both Glim and Hybrid Master were comfortable enough to open themselves up and put it all out there.

Thank you both for your willingness to share something sensitive, it means a lot to the community and I am sure in some small way helps you in some way too.

:slight_smile:

#7

Thanks for sharing, guys. I think it’s important that you let us know when comments make you feel uncomfortable, even if it’s just you. A lot of us who haven’t gone through those sorts of experiences have a hard time identifying where lines are and what might be triggering in any way. So thanks again :slight_smile:

#8

I applaud both Glimfeather and Hybrid Master for their honesty and vulnerability. Their respect for themselves and the community is inspirational.

We all face challenges in our lives and are confronted with ignorance. It can be frustrating, especially when it hits close to home.

My wife suffers from bipolar disorder and I’ve heard plenty of prejudice toward mental illness. In fact, my first post was “correcting” Audra on her ignorance. I was received with such kindness and understanding. I was impressed.

I hold nothing against ignorance. We’re all ignorant of certain experiences. Once a person expresses a certain pain, it should be treated with respect. If it’s not that’s when the line is crossed.

#9

That’s a hot button for me too. I really hate it when people mock or make ignorant comments about mental illness. Mental illnesses of all sorts are as common as broken bones—with a just as wide a spectrum of treatability as broken bones. Yet there’s a huge gap between how a person with a broken leg is viewed versus how people view a person with depression or bipolar disorder, or whatever.

#10

Kudos to you both for sharing, giving us something to think about, and making this a better place for discussion…

#11

I feel where you’re coming from, though not with the same intensity. My home was pretty emotionally chaotic. No physical abuse, but…well, like I said, we went through a lot of crap. I think being able to forgive her mother while also acknowledging that what happened to her was wrong–despite the cosmic intentions of destiny–would have been a better path to closure for Starbuck. I’m glad though, that you could share with us.

No sweat, livia. I agree that GL was probably making it up just like the Cylons, although I still think Leia and Han have better chemistry as a romantic couple, sort of Hepburn-and-Tracyesque. Besides, from what I’ve heard on the podcast and boards about the EU, Luke’s eventual partner Mara Jade is pretty kick-ass, so I wouldn’t want to write her out, either.

Thanks everyone for being so cool about this.

#12

OK, I just have to note that when someone can open themself up like that, and come out thanking everyone…

Well, we rock. Simple as that.

#13

Well said… Well said…

#14

Oh Stroogie, your rant represents yet another salvo in the war against southern heritage. What’s next: ban the confederate flag? YA COMMIE!

EDIT: (I’m gonna get flack for that, aren’t I? Way to go, Armando! Way to perpetuate stereotypes! Good job!)

All kidding aside: the incest angle in Star Wars could’ve been a LOT worse. In Richard Wagner’s Ring of the Niebelung opera tetralogy (which was the Star Wars of the late 19th century. Really) two of the main characters, Siegmund and Sieglinde, are long lost twin brother and sister who become entangled with each other, have an affair (Sieglinde happens to be married, against her will, to a guy who’s been hunting Siegmund before the second oepra in the cycle, Die Walkure, begins) and sire Siegfried, the hero of the last two operas. The difference is, though, that Siegmund and Sieglinde slept together AFTER they’d realized they were brother and sister.

Those silly Germans!

EDIT (again): that said, I don’t think Lucas had Wagner in mind either. I think he was shooting from the hip. Kind of like when Anakin built C-3PO.

#15

oh i DEFINATELY had her and han ending up together…just thought it would have made lulke a more tragic and selfless hero (like sydney carton in tale of two cities or cyrano) to give up pursuing the woman he loved to pursue the higher calling of a jedi…i’m a sucker for those kinds of triangles…i keep hearing about mara jade and will have to investigate further cause she sounds awesome!! :slight_smile:

#16

I heard he wrote certain scenes to Wagner’s music and then shared that with Williams. Coulda been one of those urban legends things. I’ll have to check that Star Wars PDF that was around here, the REAL story.

Hey Pike read that. Pike, Anything?

#17

thank you for saying this! i was diagnosed two years ago with major depression (whatever that means) though whatever this is, i’ve had it since i was 9 years old…probably earlier…suicidal depression runs in my family (both grammas and my aunt on my dad’s side) some people are comfortable talking about it most people aren’t…which is why i have a very small web of friends…i manage to deal with it without drugs which i probably should take but it’s just not in my personality to do that and i certainly wouldn’t recommend it cause it is hard sometimes…and i couldn’t do it if i didn’t have the understanding and support of some really great friends…i thank god that i have a job that helps me keep things in perspective and remind me how fortunate i am to be ABLE to hold down a job and pay my bills…lots of people are dependent on others…i got tattoos to help me NOT cut on my arm but i started banging my head instead…the episodes are fewer and far between but they are always something looming…like is something going to happen to push me over that edge…how long will it be before i go down again?? i feel like the incredible hulk (the ed norton hulk with the days without incident countdown!) i wish it was something people were more comfortable talking about because it is so very common…and it is an added pressure feeling ashamed or worrying about what people will think of me or could i lose my job if they knew? but things are becoming easier to talk about…i laugh because i was emo before it was “cool” to be emo…but i’m thankful for this “disease” because i totally feel it helps me help these kids and families suffering from autism…and like the dark knight…it’s not those demons that i battle inside, it’s what i do that defines me and i go to work everyday (sometimes it’s that’s the biggest battle of my day just to get up out of bed) and i really try to make a difference in the world…not eating meat, riding my bike…anyways…thanks talos and thotfull…

#18

I don’t remember anything about Wagner. Temp music perhaps? But it’s pretty clear Leia wasn’t Luke’s sister until RotJ. That was done to tie up Yoda’s ‘there is another’ line in ESB.

#19

Are you kiddin’!?! He wrote a ‘There is another’ line without knowing who the other was. Frak the Whut? Was it cuz Leigh Brackett died and they didn’t know where to go? C’mon. That’s not painting yourself into a corner. That’s playing darts blind-folded.

Pouts

#20

Thanks for sharing that, Livia.
Wow. Who would have thunk that a thread entitled “Luke/Leia Incest Perspective” would have brought forth such openess and sharing?
I gotta admit I’m a little choked up right now. Well, I suppose given your opennes Livia, it would be wrong of me not to share a bit too, although my struggle was so minor compared to what yours was/is.
I suffered from what—I think if I remember correctly—major affective depression for a period of about 9 months when I was 17/18 years old. I was so fortunate that it passed and never resurfaced. But it was probably a defining experience in my life because of what it taught me about how to treat myself and others and life in general. For myself personally, I learned that the brain and your emotions and your relationships are fragile and breakable things. You gotta care for them and kept 'em healthy. And as for treating others, I gained a real sensitivity and empathy toward those who suffer mental illness of any type or degree. And a feisty defensiveness when I see ignorance about mental illness.

Okay, well now I’ve talked about myself for two paragraphs, let me get back to the real point of what I want to say to you Livia.
Hopefully the Great Chuck will keep this Forum and this community alive and cooking for a long time to come. With that in mind, whenever you feel the need to express, confess, share or express yourself—or even just escape for a time, please don’t hesitate to come on the Forum and do so. “Whatever gets you through the night”, as John Lennon once said. Technically most of us are all strangers to each other here, but it sure doesn’t feel like that.

And remember this always: At least you’re not a German, nicknamed Beaver, living in New Jersey pretending you’re from Bavaria. (Sorry, I had to lighten the mood there a bit, and picking on The Beav helps me do that.):smiley: