Is Mal a Bully?

Television, Movies Games and Books Firefly
#1

It takes a lot to shock me when it comes to Firefly. I have listened to countless discussions, participated in numerous debates, read articles, interviews and books and overall consider myself something of an expert on the matter.

When Sean posited his view that he saw Mal as a “my way or the high way” style bully it gave me serious pause mostly because I had never encountered this view before. Mal is generally accepted as a broken, flawed anti-hero…but a bully?

What I would like to do here is not so much argue the point but to collect evidence to support Sean’s case. When someone posts an example let’s discuss it to determine if it helps or hurts the argument.

I rewatched Serenity and the Train Job with the express purpose of spotting instances of this behavior and I still had trouble finding many examples. The more I looked the more I saw Mal not being a bully though his actions or his inactions. For example:

  1. Wouldn’t someone who dealt with situations absolutely arm his ship?
  2. Wouldn’t a bully have authorized torture when interrogating the Fed?
  3. On Whitefall when they are scoping the territory Jayne says, “Aren’t you sure you don’t want to piss yourself like you did with Badger?” Mal doesn’t challenge him, snap or anything. He simply says, “Walk soft” “Don’t kill anyone if you don’t have to”
  4. At the end of the show wouldn’t a bully have stomped on Jayne’s head when Jayne admitted that he would have turned on him if the money was good enough
  5. Wouldn’t a bully not have let Simon on his crew after the comparisons Simon made of Mal to the perfect alliance officer?

If you pay close attention even when Mal says he is going to do something he always go with what the group feels is right. He doesn’t toss River and Simon out, he doesn’t drive Inara off the ship.

I admit I may be blind to this, but I simply still don’t see it.

#2

I think Mal wants to think he has become more like Badger. A bully, a crook a bad guy who doesn’t care about the rest of the world since the world gave up on him and his cause, but Badger can still smell his sense of morality a mile away.

but it doesn’t stop Mal from pretending tho.

By the way, what about Benjamin Sisko from DS9? From the very first episode he bullied Quark into staying on the station. He later bullied the Maquis a coupled of times, even go as far as poisoning a planet. I guess you can argue he is just speaking a language that they will understand to get his point across. But yeah, if Sean also thinks Benjamin Sisko is a bully, then i can see where he is coming from, and i guess by that standard, Mal is also a bully when he needs to be.

#3

No I don’t think he’s a Bully. I think he’s a leader. He does what he needs to do to protect his people and his ship. The point is that he pretends to be all bossy and mean but he’s really not - unless something happens and he needs to be. If he was really a Bully why would Kaylee feel comfortable enough to kiss him on the cheek and say “I love my captain”?

#4

This is very interesting discussion. I too scratched my head a little bit at Sean’s viewpoint that Mal is a bully. Although I haven’t rewatched Firefly recently, I’ve seen every episode enough to know it fairly well. But, like Solai did, I’m lookng forward to taking another look with the “bully” question specifically in mind.

Here’s my take: Malcom Reynolds is, I think, keenly aware of what’s required to be an effiective captain of a ship. And moreover, Mal is essentially the captain of an independent small business. Whether he and his crew eats, survives, profits and keeps flying litterally depends on his decisions.

On top of all that, Mal has been burned by the fact that his decisions (and other’s) during the war —of choosing to stick and fight, has cost lives. So he’s wary of getting burned that way again.

I don’t know of any case in the show where his seemingly “bully”-like actions weren’t motivated by the desire to keep Firefly and her people safe and flying. Being a leader means you have to ‘kick people’s ass’ sometimes even when you don’t feel like it.

Also, as Joss Whedon remarked on one of the commentary tracks “Mal is an uncomprimising guy.”

All that said, Nathan Fillion, sure does know how to play a convincing bully :slight_smile: :

#5

Well said Thot! :slight_smile:

#6

Well spoke sir, well spoke.

Many people when arguing this point fall into the leader/owner trap of saying, “A leader’s job is to tell people what to do” which is totally wrong. A leader’s job is to build concensus even in the face of complete disagreement. Even a dictator must have the support of his lieutenants otherwise they will turn on him. You can only say, “My way or the high way” so many times before people start saying “no.”

For me Mal’s worst and finest moments as a Captain occur within 20 minutes of each other. When he tells the crew to Reaver-fy Serenity no one agrees with him. He actually pulls his gun out and says, “this is the way it is.” That moment is Mal’s lowest point in terms of leadership. If you need to mandate your point and pull a gun then you have failed as a leader. If he was less of a leader the crew would have turned around and left him right then and there, he gave them that out.

They didn’t, not one of them. They stayed.

Again a leader can’t pull that move often but it is telling how those around the leader react when they do. This of course is followed by Mal’s finest moment as he tells the crew, “I am to misbehave” and they in turn support him once again, but this time not out of threat but by choice.

This is why I continue to think highly of Mal. He is flawed. He is not perfect. He makes mistakes but he also tends to learn from them, mostly. He is as real a character as I have seen ever.

#7

Yeah, point taken. There’s obiviously a wide spectrum of types of leadership that are required in different situations, but you’re right. No leader is gonna last long unless they inspire their followers to follow them.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that moment when Mal pulls his gun, wasn’t that a little trick played on the audience? In other words, we’re shocked (and the Firefly crew is shocked) because we think he’s pulling a gun on his people to threaten them, but in fact what he was doing was getting his gun ready so he could walk over and shoot that almost-dead reaver?

Maybe there’s no difference really and Mal intentionally was trying to communicate an “I’m not fraking around” message.

#8

yeah, i think that’s the thing that haunts him the most.

#9

To be clear, I wasn’t saying that was the argument you were making. Quite the opposite, I should have said specifically I respected the fact you didn’t fall into the trap.

I think you are right on both counts. You are right he didn’t pull it out as a threat, but it doesn’t really matter. It punctuates the point he is making that he is deadly serious and willing to stand behind his assertion. Gunning down the Alliance pilot in cold blood puts a bow on the point.

#10

Mal definitely operates with a ‘take it or leave it’ mentality and when hes made a decision the crew can follow or get out of the way. By that point he’ll brook no dissension, simple as that. His delivery, I believe, is what sets Sean off. Theres no hand holding, no ‘we are all in this together so let me explain where Im coming from.’ Hes not a bully in the traditional sense of employing force to achieve some personal empowerment. A woman like Zoe wouldnt have followed him all those years were that the case.

#11

I think the problem with defining Mal as a bully is that the definition of ‘bully’ itself has varying degrees. There’s also physical vs. emotional bullying. Another disctinction is whether he is a bully or merely someone who bullies in certain situations. There’s a small but distinct difference there. I think. :smiley: I don’t know!

Either way, I think Mal has a tendency to be cruel to people in order to coerce/influence them into doing something he wants, which is just one particular leading style that’s effective but not everyone likes. I don’t think he does it for his own amusement, there’s always a underlying reason for it that at times isn’t even selfish. And he also takes it as well as he gives it too. (And with Inara, it’s almost like some kind of weird flirting.) He’s also seen as being sorry for saying something that truly hurt someone who was defenseless as well (in the case with Kaylee). Finally, Zoe, someone who’s known Mal the longest, doesn’t take his bullying too seriously - and in that respect I have the impression that Mal isn’t really a bully by nature, but sometimes bullies so people think he is one, given his choice of occupation.

Frankly he cares too much about his family, friends, and even the whole world (in Serenity) to be considered a real bully.

#12

Ah, of course. That was an Alliance guy he shot (I don’t know why I thought it was a reaver —a reaver wouldn’t make sense in that situation).

I felt, as an audience member, in that situation there wasn’t a lot of sympathy for that wounded Alliance pilot. Given that the Alliance ship just killed everyone in that colony including our beloved Shepard Book, Mal shooting that wounded Alliance guy in cold blood felt —dare I say it—satisfying.

#13

Sean also really doesn’t like authority figures anyway - he had the same problem with Papadama and Roslyn during the last season of BSG - Sean doesn’t like being given ordes under any circumstances so he wouldn’t really do well in a situation where there is a clear person in charge who doesn’t need input to make a decision. Those people on that ship trust Mal with their lives - they trust him enough to know that even when he’s being a dick they do what he says because he’s doing what is best for their survival - also - it’s his ship and he’s the captain end of story.

#14

Being in authority or using ones authority is has nothing to do with bullying. It can be used to bully, but telling someone what to do is not an act of it. The whole reason for authority is actually to benefit everyone involved. That is the whole key to leadership. I think the main definition of a bully is one that takes pleasure in the degradation of others. Also one who intimidates others to get their way. Mal does none of this. At his core he is is a moral person which is the opposite of a bully. I think the key with Mal is that he also has a problem with authority, that is why freedom is so important to him. As Chuck said, Mal snapped at the Battle of Serenity Valley and has chosen to be a different person. The whole “my way or the highway” is Mal’s way of not getting too close to others. I also have a major problem with this type of attitude but I can’t recall an instance in my life or on TV that I would consider bullying.

So, is Mal a bully? Hellz no! Is he guilty of rubbing people the wrong way or being a little douchey at times? Hellz yes!

#15

He sure does. He intimidates his crew into following orders on a number of occasions. He doesnt do it with malice, but he does do it.

#16

In the movie, Mal was saying you either work with him or you leave, if you stay only to get in the way, he will shoot you. I don’t think that’s bullying. He has given them a choice. Exact words are: “So I hear a word from any of you that ain’t taking your leave or helping me out, I will shoot you down.” Before that Mal actually explained why he wants to use their friends’ body to disguise Serenity as a reaver ship. If it is bullying, he should have only given them two choices, work or die. In reality, Mal gave them 3, it’s hardly bullying.

As for the pilot, I am not exactly sure which part Sean is referencing to.

Mal did pull his gun on Simon, but that’s when he thought Simon was a mole. The first bully is the Doctor. Simon give Mal two choices, Make a run from the Alliance cruiser, or let Kaylee die. That’s 2 choices, that’s bullying. Mal’s attitude toward Simon for most of the pilot episode is in response to Simon forcing his hand using Kaylee’s life as bargaining tool. Mal is a tooth for a tooth kind of guy, especially when you are not a part of his crew. Simon threatened his crew, so he threatens Simon.

If that’s bullying, then fine, like I said, i’ve seen Captain Sisko done worse. They are all bullies. But I don’t agree what he did in the Serenity movie is bullying.

#17

Getting one to follow your orders is a discussion about ones leadership skills, not that they are a bully. If you had a party and people came over and started messing with your stuff, it would mot be bullying to request them to stop. Even if you ended up shooting them it would not be bullying. Serenity is Mal’s ship and his word is law. Hansioux is right on when saying that Simon is more of a bully. “To get ones on way” is not as accurate as I meant. To take advantage of others, for personal gain/ego or to get something that isn’t rightfully yours is a better definition.

#18

Just some thoughts here because I just listened to #209.

I would have to agree, Mal is a bully. It’s not even about his leadership decisions. I think I could justify some of that, particularly with the reaver incident. I mean, given the circumstances I think there are very few people in history (let alone fiction) that could convince a small, utterly unequipped group of people to waltz into reaver territory, just to waltz right back into the Alliance’s arms after. In fact, given the choice I think I probably would rather follow the guy willing to take a cheap shot just to get out safely. But, that’s me.

What I don’t like is Mal’s verbal abuse, mostly directed at Inara, sometimes Simon and at least once towards Kaylee. Classic bullying behavior. He’s frustrated at whatever he and Inara have going on (or not, rather) and he takes it out on Inara, puts her down for being a companion - a completely legit and respected position every where else in the 'verse*. He gives Kaylee - of all people - a big put down just for mentioning Inara and gawking over some dress. Putting some one down because you’re mad about something else? Because you can and it makes you feel a bit better for a little while? Bully.

*seriously, a respected position where you’re paid to have sex with the fantastically rich person of your choice?

#19

I never said Mal was a bully and am not arguing that case. Just pointing out that on occasion he does use intimidation to get people to follow orders. Sometimes hes also a dick, but I dont count that as bullying.

RE: A comment on the podcast about how Picard never has to bully anyone. An unfair comparison I think. You can probably count on your hand the number of times his leadership is challenged, not because he is some uber-leader but because the rest of his crew is for the most part, poorly developed. When he is challenged, its some plot contrivance and not because its true to character.

#20

This is not bullying, it is his sense of humor and personality. Saying things that offend people or hurt them in its self isn’t bullying. I maintain that it is the intention behind the words that is bullying, not the words themselves. Being a sarcastic or a smart-ars is not the same as bullying even if the other person is hurt by both. When Mal made that comment to Kaylee it was not meant as an insult, in his way I believe Mal meant it as a compliment. When he realized she was hurt by it he was visibly sorry about it. In his way he was commenting on her talent and how at home she is in an engine room. It came out all backassward but not as an insult.

As far as Inara goes I think Mal really dislikes what she does, is jealous of her customers, is in love with her and is a bit intimidated by her. The stuff he says isn’t coming from a place of hate. It is because of jealousy, insecurity, affection, ego and that he knows she is worth so much more then having to sell herself.

At least that is my take.

Point taken and my apologies.

It is also not fair to compare a military ship to Serenity. It is also completely opposite. Everyone in Starfleet is there to better themselves and do that particular job. The whole idea of bullying in the Federation is unheard of.