I watched the pilot...

Television, Movies Games and Books Caprica
#1

And I’m going to complain about it, so this post will have spoilers.

I want to like it, I really do. I am a huge fan of BSG, and I was really excited to see a different show based in the same universe. It really sucks that this pilot was poorly envisioned, poorly written, and poorly executed.

For a stand alone series, we are given absolutely no exposition as to what is going on. No “life here began out there” to fill in new viewers. All the great scenes explaining the backdrop must have been cut in order to fit in all those gratuitous booby shots. Since the Caprican government is clearly working with the Cylon makers in a defense contract, I can only assume that this means the twelve colonies are not yet united. This would also explain why there are numerous mentions of a Prime Minister, even though in BSG the head of government was a President. However, the only other colony mentioned is Tauron, and even then it’s in passing. How hard would it have been to drop in a scene explaining growing tensions between the colonies and an emphasis on global security? We’re told that the Caprican government was considering outsourcing the development of the Cylons to a company on another planet, which would mean another government. Why would Caprica let another colony design their defenses? We later learn that this company is Tauron. Caprica seems to be inflicted with pretty severe racism against Taurons, so why would a Tauron company be considered for handling the defense of Caprica?

Why are they introducing a monotheistic cult? In BSG, when it’s revealed the Cylons believe in only one God, people remark on how odd that is. You’d think people would link it to the violent terrorism of monotheists on Caprica, especially Admiral Adama who lost his sister and mother to a monotheistic suicide bomber. It would have made more sense to use the terrorist attack to highlight strained relationships between the colonies, rather than a half-assed attempt to link this series with BSG.

The whole thing with the virtual daughter, besides being patently absurd, is dangerously close to Cylon resurrection, something the Cylons 58 years in the future were unable to reproduce. Are we to believe that a 16 year old girl, who is not even shown to be that adept at programming, is able to invent resurrection from scratch when the devious Brother Cavil was unable to duplicate the results? Why didn’t Brother Cavil just look in a history book?

The idea that Graystone was able to cobble together a virtual representation of Adama’s daughter without ever having laid eyes on her was beyond nonsense. How would DNA, report cards, medical records, and credit card bills possibly be enough information to create a completely accurate (not to mention fully interactive) copy of a person’s physical appearance, personality, and memories? It’s complete gibberish.

Also, if your daughter had died, and you had a computer backup of her personality you could interact with in a completely real virtual reality setting, why the hell would you bother inserting her consciousness into a barely functioning metal automaton whose primary function is to kill things? I don’t see how that would be preferable.

If this takes place 58 years before the fall, and William Adama is 11, that means he is 69 in the BSG miniseries, and well into his seventies by the last episode. That’s ridiculous.

I hate to be so negative in my first post ever, but these issues were really weighing on my mind. Does anyone feel the same way? Can someone who loved the show respond to these points? I’d love to talk it out.

#2

too bad you could not enjoy it. I thought it was brilliant.

most breakthrough invention happens by accident. Zoe was a brilliant programmer, even her dad says so. But no amount of great programming can reproduce what happened to Zoe’s copy. Zoe’s copy was that way because she was link to Zoe at the moment of her death.

Why the dad want to put her in a metal body? Probably just wanteto prove the concept will work, and then work on better solution later. The house is probably filled with Zoe’s hair, unless the darn butler robot does his job too well, they could clone Zoe’s biological body. Or simply make a mechanical body that isn’t designed to be used for military purpose.

As for the conditions of the 12 colonies, that’s just perfect. Before the Cylon war, their real enemies are each other. It’s great to see that reflected in the show. It’s not like before the Cylons the 12 Colonies were this Utopian society. And I am sure the government works drasticly different in the pre war era and the post war era.

The same goes for the cult. Do you remember a cult 58 years ago? Well, I don’t. I will have to look up on the internet to see what cults there were back in 1951. I am not suprised that majority of people finds the one god believing humans weird, especially post war when it’s made clear that’s what the cylon believes in.

gratuitous boob shots are fine with me. This is not a show for children, nor is BSG.

#3

I think it is assumed that adama-sister had a Holonet account ( like everyone on caprica) and so the actual avatar based on her likeness was probably pretty easy to look up since he “owned” the net and servers.

#4

Right- it’s a series, and this is the pilot. It is not a stand-alone movie. The job of a pilot is to introduce, tantalize, make you want more. To put the players in place. And I really don’t think the boobie shots were seriously overdone. There weren’t that many, maybe 2 or 3 minutes, and I think it served to show the levels of decadence to which this society had risen.

Since the Caprican government is clearly working with the Cylon makers in a defense contract, I can only assume that this means the twelve colonies are not yet united. This would also explain why there are numerous mentions of a Prime Minister, even though in BSG the head of government was a President.

That was my impression. Also supported by the fact that Zoe pointedly asked Ben if he had their passports. (Also, according to the Battlestar Wiki, we learn in the episode Colonial Day that the Articles of Colonization, which united the 12 colonies was signed only 52 years before The Fall, so 6 years after the events of Caprica.)

However, the only other colony mentioned is Tauron, and even then it’s in passing.

Passing? It was mentioned several times: Adams/a and his brother talk about it, Adams/a and the Guatrau talk about it, Adams/a and the Prime Minister talk about it, Adams/a and Graystone talk about it. And also, it wasn’t the only Colony mentioned: the kids were running away to Gemenon.

How hard would it have been to drop in a scene explaining growing tensions between the colonies and an emphasis on global security? We’re told that the Caprican government was considering outsourcing the development of the Cylons to a company on another planet, which would mean another government. Why would Caprica let another colony design their defenses? We later learn that this company is Tauron. Caprica seems to be inflicted with pretty severe racism against Taurons, so why would a Tauron company be considered for handling the defense of Caprica?

Growing tensions between the colonies? I felt we got a pretty good picture of the tensions that already existed between Tauron and Caprica.

As for the outsourcing, think of each of the colonies as a country. I didn’t get the idea that they were outsourcing to Tauron itself, but a company based on Tauron. Even in today’s world, tech is bought and sold across national boundries all the time. Governments hire private contractors and buy from private companies on a regular basis. Granted, Americans see it more from the end of the selling than the buying…

Plus, at the end of Caprica, doesn’t the Secretary of Defense tell Graystone that they had no intention of giving the contract to the Tauron company?

…If this takes place 58 years before the fall, and William Adama is 11, that means he is 69 in the BSG miniseries, and well into his seventies by the last episode. That’s ridiculous.

Why? Remember, this is a society which is much more advanced than our own. Who’s to say medical technology hasn’t lengthened the human life span? For that matter, it does gibe with the BSG timeline. In Razor we see a younger William Adama 40 years before the events of BSG. He’s a hot-shot viper pilot. It would not be unusual for him to be nearing 30. Even in our own military, a young fighter pilot would be mid-twenties to 30.

#5

on the age issue, there is actually nothing wrong with Bill Adama being 69 when he was about to retire with his ship.

The real problem is how old Apollo is, and how old was Bill when he had his first son.

<40 years to The Fall>

If Adama was 69 at the fall of the 12 colonies, and the Cylon war took place 40 year earlier, that’d make him 29 in the flashback events of Razor.

Adama didn’t married Carolanne until after the war, so when he had his first son, he would have been at least in his early 30s.

<25 years to The Fall>

It is unclear how much older Zak is to Lee. I like to think Zak an year older than Lee, because Zak died 2 years prior to The Fall, right after he passed basic flight. Assume Lee is following Zak’s footsteps, it would still only leave 1 year for him to make the rank of Captain.

If Zak is older by a year, then either Lee make Captain right after he passed basic, or he make through training ahead of Zak.

but if Lee was in mid to late 20s at the fall, it would mean when Bill Adama had his first child, he would have been in his mid 40s. Bill would have been 44 years old assuming Zak died at 23 and 42 if Zak died at the age of 25.

Either way, if Lee was in his late 20s, Bill in his 40s would be considered a bit older than the average age for people to become fathers, in our society, not theirs.

#6

I always assumed Lee was the older brother, and that he was 30-ish at the Fall (He was already a Captain, remember). This would make Papadama late 30’s to 40-ish at the time of Lee’s birth. Zak, being about 2 years younger, would have been born when Papadama was early 40’s (and would have died in his mid- to late-20’s). It doesn’t seem unusual for a career military man to be around 40 when his children are born.

#7

I agree with that. Lee out ranked Starbuck, and starbuck was zak teacher. first time pilots are early 20’s about 22 to 24.

#8

I too always got the impression that Lee was the first born. Zak was following his father & brother into flight training.

#9

that makes sense, but still Adama would be in his 40s when he had his first child even the otherway around.

The difference between Bill Adama and our military men is that Bill Adama pretty much grew up in a constant total war that lasted for 12 yeears, where as most of the US military men today didn’t go through.

Such conditions could have made Bill Adama delay having children. Especially he also went through the patch where he was discharged from the military and having a less than desirable job.

#10

I thought the pilot was great - had a lot of the BSG vibe to it.

My only complaint/concern is that I think ti should ahve been earlier…becuase etierh the Cylons got introduced to sociaty REALLY fast… or the Cylon War was REALLy short.

Ah well…RDM and co will figure it out Im sure

#11

Caprica:
Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring.

You get the message. I’m hugely disapointed.

#12

I really liked Caprica. As a pilot, it fulfilled it’s function to hook us (well, it hooked me). I thought it was well done, the actors were first rate, the plot-line intriguing and interesting. The age question, I agree with Hansioux and Apollymy.

So, I loved it and want to see more !

#13

Yah, but tell us what you really think.

Sorry you didn’t like it. Perhaps a second viewing is in order? :slight_smile:

#14

I’m not surprised that there have been very mixed responses. It’s a totally different animal than BSG.

What got me was the sense of foreboding. Even though I already know it is all going to turn out badly, I also know that as the show progresses I’ll keep thinking - “stop, don’t. don’t you see how wrong this is?”

And a bit ghastly. Downloading your teenage daughter into a metallic Cylon. (Gee - that’s “normal” eh?)

And how about the resemblence of the Graystone’s robot butler to the robots that “we” now have here on Earth, shown at the very end of BSG. Such an “innocent” inconsequential character - and totally creepy.

If I were to try and sum up in a word the feel of Caprica so far I would have to go with “gothic”.

#15

I guess if you were expecting a prequal, like star trek, or batman begins, this would be a let down.

I don’t look at it like a prequal but as a different story form a universe i am familar with. its got a lot of potential as a show in its own right, and we may yet see why the Battlestar fleet was created, and the war between the colonies that caused the cylons to rebel.

I like the fact that the cylons got the “one true god” from a human contamination of their programming.

could you give it another chance and NOT look at it through BSG lenses?

#16

I think he might be saying that he found it boring. I’m not 100% sure.

#17

If you came into this pilot with no knowledge of BSG, would you know that these humans live on the other side of the galaxy, on twelve planets that are the colonies of a legendary planet named Kobol, and that the existence mythical thirteenth tribe named Earth is widely disbelieved? Absolutely not. These are all things we found out by the end of the BSG miniseries. Not one mention is made in Caprica. While obviously this show won’t revolve around the search for Earth, these are still key points of the setting of the show.

I don’t have a problem with nudity per se, but when vital information is not included, I tend to get critical about just what is filling up the hour and half.

That was my impression. Also supported by the fact that Zoe pointedly asked Ben if he had their passports. (Also, according to the Battlestar Wiki, we learn in the episode Colonial Day that the Articles of Colonization, which united the 12 colonies was signed only 52 years before The Fall, so 6 years after the events of Caprica.)

Again, for a stand-alone show, they shouldn’t rely on the audience’s knowledge of BSG episodes. This is the pilot! This is where the exposition is supposed to go!

Passing? It was mentioned several times: Adams/a and his brother talk about it, Adams/a and the Guatrau talk about it, Adams/a and the Prime Minister talk about it, Adams/a and Graystone talk about it. And also, it wasn’t the only Colony mentioned: the kids were running away to Gemenon.

Yes, in passing. Mentioned several times, but each in passing. Tauron is never explained, but rather mentioned as if the audience is supposed to be familiar with it. It’s easy for us to take this stuff for granted, as we know a lot of stuff from BSG, but this is supposed to be for new viewers. Also, the setting is decades before BSG, so even my knowledge of BSG isn’t that helpful. I know the words Tauron and Caprica, but I don’t know how those two governments relate to each other or to the other colonies (who are not mentioned), besides some pretty heavy-handed attempts to show racism, which is not the same thing.

I did, however, forget that Gemenon was mentioned. But also in passing! It’s not even really explained why they wanted to go to Gemenon in the first place. I agree that a show should have some secrets, and that’s fine, but try to watch this from the perspective of someone who’s never seen BSG and you’ll see what I mean. We need exposition!

Plus, at the end of Caprica, doesn’t the Secretary of Defense tell Graystone that they had no intention of giving the contract to the Tauron company?

They said they were glad they didn’t have to give the contract to the Tauron company, but it was more to show the inherent racism in the Caprican government.

But whether the government intended to ever give the contract to the Tauron company or not, Daniel believed it might happen.

Why? Remember, this is a society which is much more advanced than our own. Who’s to say medical technology hasn’t lengthened the human life span? For that matter, it does gibe with the BSG timeline. In Razor we see a younger William Adama 40 years before the events of BSG. He’s a hot-shot viper pilot. It would not be unusual for him to be nearing 30. Even in our own military, a young fighter pilot would be mid-twenties to 30.

Yeah, you’re right. I remember in TNG Captain Picard is nearly 60 in the pilot episode, but Patrick Stewart was actually only 47 or so.

#18

I don’t think a pilot needs to be a info dump to hook the viewers. Viewers simply needs to find the story intriguing so they’d come back for more, instead of know everything there is to know going forward.

Take the BSG miniseries for example. The miniseries was broken into 2 nights when it was aired. If a person only watched the first part of the miniseires, would he know about Earth or anything that was important to the later stories? The point of the miniseries night one was so you’d come back and watch night 2, where it’s a lot slower and more of a info dump. Where they took time for Leoban to explain how Cylons can’t die on Ragnar.

#19

None of these things are required knowledge right off the bat in this incarnation. Will hey explain that? Sure, but it’s not necessary to know right off the bat. The mentions of Tauron & Geminon would indicate to a non-knowledgable viewer that there are indeed at least 2 other planets.

#20

also immediately think of the zodiac and at least have an idea that there could be 12 colonies.