I just can't side with Zerek anymore

Television, Movies Games and Books BSG-2003
#41

Well put, on the whole Lee as leader argument, Starbuccaneer. Even though he is Adama’s son, he’s already proved that he would defy Adama when Lee thinks it’s wrong in the trials. I actually don’t particularly like Lee as a character, but I do think he’s probably the best man for the presidency.

While I do think Zarek and co. are douchebaggery, my biggest problem with him would be that they have no follow through! They planned this big mutiny, but I have really no idea what they want to do afterwards. And yes, Gaeta? Not prepared for Adama’s job, that’s for sure. Though, to be fair, the events of last episode occured in what? 4 hours. So, maybe in time they’d let us know if they actually have some kind of a solution.

But, my problem with Adama and Roslin is that they seem to blame everything on Zarek, which I find unfair and untrue. Roslin admittedly GAVE UP on her own presidency, knowing full well that Zarek was/is the vice president at the time. What did she think would happen? Adama ignoring the civilain fleet is also a breach to his oath, and I do think his judgement is impaired by Roslin. Them having a relationship is also not possible. Either have the relationship, and give up either the presidency or admiral status, or vice versa. And, the Quorom wouldn’t be idiots if they’d actually gave them all the information necessary for them to make an informed choice. And etc, there’s a whole bunch of points already mentioned in the forums/podcasts.

NONE of these are Zarek’s doing. Zarek’s is always a sneaky one to begin with, but I get the impression that under the right guidance and a watchful eye, he would be an asset to the government and to the fleet. Roslin made no attempts to ever try that, and now they’re outraged he’s engineered a mutiny?

Not that it makes what Zarek did (the violence,etc) any less wrong, because it was completely wrong and douchebaggery, but Roslin and Adama, by continuously ignoring the Quorom for years and withheld most information from them, have manufactured the situation themselves by pushing the exact right buttons on a revolutionary figure for them to do the worst things they can in order to be heard.

I just think both Zarek and Co. and Adama and Co. are in the wrong.

#42

You forgot wacky shirt Friday.

#43

My issue is this…

Adding Cylon Jump Drive is just a want, not a need. The fleet can jump perfectly right now. They have find ore, water, food along the way to last them this long. It’s not absolutely essential to install these Cylon Jump Drives. And it certainly isn’t worth alienating the civilian government.

Of course, the real issue is the peace agreement with renegate Cylons, the jump drive is only the straw that broke the camel’s back. But I think if Rosama did not force the issue, the fleet could have more time to appreciate and accept the alience. Giving the hardcore opposers a hard time to mobilize.

I think Zerek hasn’t done anything hard to understand. But since we identified ourselves with Adama, Kara, Apollo for so long, it’s hard to switch to Zerek’s side.

#44

Or it could mean she’s finally in a situation where she knows exactly what she needs to do. It’s been a long time since she has known what exactly her role is. She enjoys her role, it’s the same one she has when she goes out in a viper to blow up cylon’s. We’ve seen her whoping it up many times after she’s blown one up. As someone said earlier, if she had gone over the edge, she could & would have easily eliminated everyone on that hangar deck, she didn’t. Besides, we’ve always know Starbuck was a little crazy.

#45

Didn’t Lee have to stop her by pulling her back in hanger bay?
As for the comfortable in her role as a warrior I see that, I mean hey if found out I was Zombie i’d be pretty messed up too, as well as hungry for brains!!!, BRAINS!!! (i’m sorry just had to do it. :o) but She’s not killing raiders here she’s killing friends and smiling.

#46

Yeah, Starbuck doesn’t do introspection and shades of gray all that well, and unfortunately that’s all she’s had to deal with for quite awhile. I think she’s happy that she’s found herself in a black and white situation where her skill set is directly applicable…

#47

I do think adding the Cylon jump drive is essiental. Sure they can get travel now but their resources are limited. To make an analogy its like they are currently in wagon train (ala Oregon Trail). Sure they may work fine and get you where you are going but chances are you are gonna loose alot of people and have to scavange for resources along the way slowing your path to a standstill. But by adding the Cylon drive its like upgrading to the Steam engine. (trying to keep the metaphor going) They can all of a sudden make the same trip in signfiigantly less time, with almost less losss, and even less scrunging. Other examples is like going from a Biplane to the Shuttle. From a Model T to a Ferrari. From a Mac to a PC (just ribbing ya Mac folks!!)

So if they want to all risk death due to dysentery and snake bites they can stick with the ole’ fashion FTL drives but i think it would be their mistake.

As for the Alliance. I think its something they need. Especially since they have lost the Pegasus. They need another battle ship for when the Cavils show up. If ya look at it Galactica is really on its last legs. While the Rebel Basestar is also limping along it at least provides a little protection and firepower.

#48

the second he picked up that wrench was the moment I stopped siding with him…

#49

sure it’d be nice to have it. But not when over half the population believes steam locomotives are the work of the devil and will kill you if you try to put them into a steam pulled train.

Yes, they will reach their destination slower if they go on a wagon train, but at least they will still get there. If you can’t convince those folks that the steam locomotives are harmless and not the work of the devil, then there is no harm in keep on the wagon train until they understand.

Ultimately it is still the people’s choice. And they won’t die right away if they didn’t upgrade. The Cylon Jump Drives (or the Steam Locomotive) is a nice thing to have, but not having it is only an inconvenience, not a life or death situation. At least definitely not at this moment.

#50

While jumping on the basestar Roslin had visions. I’m wondering if she wants this conversion because she’s starting to think that if everyone jumped with cylon tech they may see something. It doesn’t seem like a small consequence that people don’t want those engines (not just because it’s cylon tech) but because something will happen to many who experience a jump using the cylon engines. Maybe that’s why certain cylons have the idea to have a religious coup among their own.

I know it’s kind of reaching at straws, but there has to be something to why Roslin had visions using cylon tech FTL jumps.

#51

I just wanted to point out something someone else pointed out to me. We’ve briefly touched on it before, but I don’t think we’ve fully realized the scope of it.

Chief Petty Officer Laird & his entire family was wiped out. Not by cylons, but by humans.

Zarek does not have the moral high ground.

#52

Roslin has plenty of visions without the Cylon FTL drives anyway. I don’t think the FTL has anyhting to do with visions. A whole bunch of people have jumped with Cylon tech. All those pilots on their mission to destroy the resurrection hub jumped with Roslin and none of them seemed to have visions or take a liking of the Cylon FTL process.

#53

But what if over half the population dies while trying to get to the destination. What happens when they run out of algae and tillium and are still 10 jumps away from anything. I personally think Adama should take control of the Tillium ship and tell the rest of the fleet that they can either take the Cylon FTL or fend for themselves. Galactica will come back for them when they find a good planet. Anyone who wants to go it alone can.

I don’t think its right to condemn the entire population of the human race to extinction because people think something is scary. At this point it can’t hurt to take the FTL.

#54

This was done once before (sorta) back in the mini-series. Sucked, but you have to make tough decisions in order to ensure immediate survival.

Wish we knew what Roslin could do under emergency warpowers acts, but since we don’t have their laws to look at we may never really know.

#55

Yup. All they have to do is jump away Galactica and the Tillium ship. Leave a message that says anyone who wants to join meet us at this next jump point. I Guarantee almost all the ships will follow.

#56

That’s the key question, though. WILL they get “there” (ie - anywhere livable) using the older drives. Adama seems to think otherwise. And, considering the dearth of habitable worlds they’ve stumbled across in their travels, I think the evidence bears him out.

Makes you wonder what happened to all the habitable worlds, though? I mean, they left Kobol and found THIRTEEN worlds (the twelve colonies and Earth). They left the colonies, stumbled across Kobol, the Algae World, New Craprica, and Cindearth. Second trip, they’ve found a measly two more habitable worlds. Yet the LAST time they managed to find twelve all within a short enough distance to found a working conglomerate government. Odd.

#57

Take into consideration that Colonies, Kobol, Algae Planet, and then Earth were essentially on a path, with signs as how to get from each one. But now they are off the path. They dont have any sign posts to where they are going. They are almost jumping blindly through space, hoping their telescopes will find them a habitable planet.

#58

I think this is the kind of tiny tragedy that really makes this show work beyond the visceral level of “space explosions!” and whatnot. This guy loses his whole family, and is eventually killed himself FOR DOING HIS JOB, and the Cylons didn’t have to lift a mechanical finger to do it.

#59

There are so many angles. Everyone’s lost. The moral angle is the hardest to see in the haze of devastation. I think it is the point of the Cycle and the show.

How do you find, in the haze of anger and racism, the way to love your neighbor and do something different which will stop the craziness and make the world a better place?

Emily’s original idea was that they’re racist frakkers–and they are, as well as religiously biased ones–and if I had to pal up with al-Qaeda on Sept. 12, 2001 for survival’s sake I’d act just the fleet. But how to be different? To see like Six said, that they are flesh and bone like humans, that there’s Athena and others like her and Helo and others like him. They have to pull together and they are falling apart–apparently to start the Cycle again.

This is a departue, I know (I’m good at digres—ooh! shiny!)

Back to you regularly scheduled programming.

#60

As long as he gives them that choice, shiny. Although I would point out. by switching over the fleets FTL’s they are trusting the Cylons with the fleets most powerful weapon, and the only reason mankind is still alive. Even if the offer by the Cylons are genuine; we don’t know whether there is sleeper agents in the mix. Its an awfully big leap of faith.