I just can't side with Zerek anymore

Television, Movies Games and Books BSG-2003
#1

Before tonight’s episode, I honestly understood where Zerek was coming from. In a since, I thought he was rightg. I thought a mutiny could work…in theory. Maybe just a little wake up call for Roslina dn Adama woul dhave been in order.

Prehapes tonight’s events wern’t directly Zerek’s fault, but I can say that the poeple under Zerek really are going about this the wrong way. These people don’t have plans for a better government, they don’t’ even care, all they want is revenge.

Thes people don’t give a frak about the colonies. These people don’t give a frak about freedom to pick a new government. I don’t even think they care about a new government. These are just really pissed off people, looking for their own personal punching bag.

And, oh, those final four they destroyed the colonies. What did they ever do for us, anyway? No, while we were fighting to save humanity,what were they doing? All cylons are evil, I mean look at Athina…shes reallye evil, I mean, she never did anything for the fleet :smiley:

They call cylons simple robots so that they can excuse themselves of crimes like murder, kidnapping, treason, and rape. Trust me, its much easior to be a racist. Its how these people sleep at night. It makes them feel a frak of alot better about themselves.

Okay, I’m sorry, but I really feel passionate about this. These people are not out for a new government, they’re out for revenge. They’re only plan is to overthrow the government, not because tis the right thing to do, but because they need someone to blame.

And while Adama, and Roslin should not be in power, I’d side with them any day of the week over these people. At least Adama has some morality, some common since. In spite of everything, this man has retained some honer,

#2

I think the trick here is to separate the good ideas from the (as you accurately put it) douchebaggery. For example:

Pushing some civil disobedience when the military threatens a coup: good idea.

Pushing Gaeta to mutiny on the Galactica: douchbaggery.

Pointing out how Adamlin ignores the law arresting Zarek and threatening the Quorum with imprisonment if they don’t play ball with the military: good idea.

Offing the poor guy from the Pegasus who already suffered through Cain killing his family and living on the pre-Lee Pegasus: douchbaggery.

Or take Gaeta in the same terms:

Suggesting that by ignoring his responsibility to the civilian government Adama has broken his oath: good idea.

Lying to the CIC crew, inciting mutiny, and attempting to take command of the Galactica when he’s utterly unprepared for the responsibility: douchebaggery.

You get the idea.

I’m not suggesting these people are better for having the good ideas. They’re not. (And neither are Adama and Roslin, having completely ignored the duties of their respective offices since arriving on Erf – and for taking the first step over their own established boundaries.) What really, really pisses me off is that because everyone’s acting like douches the good ideas from all sides are getting trounced and forgotten. Damn!

Edit: I think we should also separate the abundant badassery in this episode as well. I agree with Adama when he confronts Gaeta on the bridge. Gaeta is dishonoring his uniform. (But so has Adama by choosing to ignore part of the oath as well.) I’m thoroughly impressed with how Adama’s experience and balls outperform a couple of young, armed, buff marines – and mention in #148 how there’s more to being a soldier than carrying a gun and hitting the gym.

The Starbuck scene in the hangar bay is unmatched.

But just “being a badass” isn’t enough to make someone right – or help the fleet. The fleet doesn’t need a badass Adama; They need a leader – which has been sadly missing. They don’t need a kill-em-all-and-let-God-sort-em-out Starbuck – OK, maybe they do need a little of this – but you take my point.

#3

I’m not really sure you understand my point. My issue si these men have allowd theri emotions to create them into a bunch of racist bastard swith no real cause but to overthrow a government, that probably needs to be overthrown, but I think there are better ways of doing it then rounding up everyone in the cahin of comand who suprots Adama.

#4

I’m torn at the at the moment.
Although that the majority of the people involved the coup seem to be looking for simply revenge, I do believe that there may be a small percentage of the people involved that do want a better government.

It seemed they simply got mixed in with the douches and have now lost all hope of what they want ever coming around.

And then of course you do have the people who are looking to do the right thing and have good ideas and then completely blow this all away with acts of, as stated above, douchebaggery.

I agree that these men have let there emotions to take over turning them into a bunch of racist revenge seekers

#5

Even if there are people who are doing this for the right reasons, I don’t think they have the high ground in any way, since they were more than willing to shoot anyone who wasn’t already in their gang. This points to behavior that is not altogether rational to me.

#6

This is where i think they lost it for me, as i said above they let their search for revenge and emotions control them and they became no better then the people simply looking for a fight.

I think I’m starting to go with them being complete bastards now.

#7

In many ways, the mutiny reminds me of Baltar’s trial; guilt was presumed and he was found innocent anyway. To preserve the souls of the fleet, of humanity and their civilization, Baltar the scapegoat was freed.

Here, everyone is guilty, there’s nothing left worth saving (“the world is frakked” indeed), and the only way to get justice, vengeance, is to kill everyone in sight. It’s Gaeta’s way of giving up; better dead than here.

I can’t agree with their methods, or side with Gaeta and Zarek, but I get where they’re coming from. The show has been building toward this moment for a long time, and the reckoning has arrived right on schedule.

#8

I totally agree with this. Gaeta, when he gets airlocked, will have paid the price that everyone wanted Baltar to pay.

#9

I hate for my first post here in … forever :stuck_out_tongue: to be “this” but …

I’m finding it hard to chart exactly how we got to this point from the beginning. Certainly something like this would’ve happened if we jumped straight from the Mini to series 4.5, but we didn’t, and couldn’t. It took a bit of thinking, but I think throughout the latter part of series 3 and the first part of series 4, we didn’t see the point of view of the common man in the fleet much. In fact, I think we got too good a look at the cylon/cylon sympathiser (cylathiser?) point of view with Baltar being on the Basestar Sonatica, plus Athena’s story. The story of the average Fleet denizen wasn’t told … and now it is.

The average fleet denizen … well, I’d hate to say the average denizen is a racist shit-sucker, but … on one hand, I’d say that’s the case, based on how in favour many ships were of the anti-cylons-boarding legislation. On the other hand, I don’t think any of those racist shit-suckers really wanted armed insurrection as a solution, as we saw when Gæta shut off (apparently still) President Roslin’s wireless address. These people heard Roslin’s voice for the first time in far too long and after comm silence from the Galactica, in itself a disturbing thing, and heard about the armed mutiny to boot, and the chatter is immediately addressed at the President.

Oh, and I hate Gæta for a variety of things: the racism, the betrayal (despite how unintentional it may have been) on New Craaaaaaprica, the huge betrayal of many people he’s worked alongside for whatever he said, seven years, the arresting of Hoshi, his FRAKKING BOYFRIEND (hell, I’m gonna say the not-discussing this with his boyfriend - that’s one of the first things I do if I have a Grand Plan™, discuss it with my fianceé - maybe he could’ve talked him out of this FRAKKING RETARDED MANOEUVRE), every single death, including the ones at the hands of Tigh, Tyrol, Adama, Adama, and Thrace, … yeah, what a dick.

heavy breathing :stuck_out_tongue:

Wow, I could do a blog post on this. does :stuck_out_tongue:

#10

We see Zarek’s true colors on the flight deck when he calmly kills someone from behind with a wrench. Quite a cowardly move to kill an unarmed man. If you are going to kill him, at least have the balls to face him before you bash him with the wrench. Of course it looks like there are alot to people on Zarek’s side that are out for blood.

#11

As others have mentioned, I doubt the civilians had this mess in mind when they objected to the Adama/Roslin rule. Most just wanted a voice. Adama and Roslin were wrong for denying them.

Some are so frightened, so angry, so desperate that they have lost touch with their humanity, forsaken their principles and have turned into a gang of murdering thugs. I guess to some degree I can understand that, don’t agree with it but I can understand where they are coming from. At the risk of getting too political here it reminds me of post 9/11 … on second thought, I won’t go there.

Zarek on the other hand is leading the charge, knowing full well what it means. The snake has crawled out from under its rock.

It wouldn’t surprise me if we find out that Zarek is some how aligned with Cavil and this is all part of the plan to bring down the fleet and the rebel cylons.

#12

I think this is a very good point. Democracy really isn’t necessarily a given in many human societies. It tends to work best when people’s basic needs are met and their able to vote on issues higher than their empty stomachs and immediate suffering. Democracy really may not be what the colonial fleet needs right now, even though saying such goes against every fiber of my being.

What’s interesting (and I know there’s another thread dedicated to this) is how opposed Richard Hatch’s view of Zarek is from the impression his performance actually provides about the character. It’s almost like self-delusion is so basic to Zarek, that the actor has to maintain such a false facade himself to enable such a great performance. As such, I think Zarek really uses his ideals and love of democracy as front to allow himself to wage a constant rebellion. He is bitter and it appears he has a basic need to fighting some body regardless of the costs. Regarding Zarek I just can’t abide…

#13

I agree with Emily on this one.

Yup. And that is what angers me so much, because it makes them into something that isn’t worthy of survival in my mind, and that sucks.

I had a similar thought this morning. At the risk of being too political AND personal, I didn’t get on board with the warmongering and didn’t have anyone representing me at the time - and to be honest, I have yet to see anyone in the fleet that I think I can identify with. At this point, I’m wanting to throw up my hands, and were I the OneTrueGod, I would smite them and start over.

#14

you know, i am reallly losing patience with some of the things goin on from some of the humans on this show

  1. The cylons nuked the colonies!..yeah…theyr sure did…the slave race dared to rise up against its masters and destroy them…it was wrong of them to do so…but they saw a treat to thir survival in a race that still…even now…dont see them as beings but as machines . They knew that colonials would never really want them as equal…and that starting a classic war of baseships versus battlestar could turn into a long, drawn-out mess. so they went for the, well, more efficient solution . But since then…had they wanted to just wipe them out…they could have done it a few dozens times

So…to those that whines and bitch about that still…what is your solution?..keep fighting a war you will never win?..kill every cylon and human sympatizer you see out of revenge?..i am sure it would feel good…but how is that suppose to help you survive???..should the jews be still killing germans now? or the arabs still be killing mongols?..the celts still be killin romans? where does it end?

  1. Roslin and Adama are dictators!..that is the Zarek part of the equation. and yes…they are. and they should be. right now…the colonials are like the romans when they were in deep trouble…usually…the romans elected 2 consuls to rule Rome, therefore diffusing power, and making sure no one man had it all. but when time was bad, they would name a dictator, one man with absolute power, to get them throught the crisis. after the crisis was over, then the dictator was suppose to give up his power. did not always work out so easily…but. i think that is what the dumbass fleet needs. a dictator . they are in a crisis of survival still, and they cant have such divisions.

i always believed that at its core, this show was about evolution, and the passing of an older race…such as the neanderthal, to a new one, such as the homo sapiens. what we are seeing now is the last death throes of the old race trying to stop the inevitable. they are done. the future will belong to the cylons, pure or mixed with human elements.

evolution is a heartless process and those that stands in its way, no matter how good their intentions, get crushed withour mercy.

so…people of the fleet…either accept what is inevitable and live…or try to revolt and seek revenge…and be destroyed!

evolution is coming for all of you!!!

#15

I’m not on Zarek’s side, but I can see how he and Gaeta came to the place they’re at. The military is the elite in this world and the common man has had enough. because we’ve seen so little of the common man, we don’t identify with him. Let’s face it, we all watched Hera being born, what’s it like on another ship when you give birth?

I don’t think of 9/11 right now, I think of the issue of race brought up in the our last election. From my white perspective, I saw people not wanting to go there and the Black community taking the opportunity to address some very real issues that still exist. Issues the white community likes to believe we’ve overcome. Just because we have overcome some huge hurdles doesn’t mean major issues don’t still exist. The same can be said of the fleet.

Imagine for a moment what life is like for the rest of the fleet. I think it’s foolish to risk lives and limited resources on a revolution, but Zarek & Co. feel like they have no choice.

#16

Lying to the CIC crew, inciting mutiny, and attempting to take command of the Galactica when he’s utterly unprepared for the responsibility: douchebaggery.

I simply loved the one little passing acknowledgment and foreshadowing of how craaapstained things are going to be getting for Gaeta and how over his head he is in command at CIC when he asks the one sunshine boy (you’d think they’d had thrown those guys out an airlock ages ago) to scramble the signal from Roslin, only to have to go over there and do it himself cause the dumb frak doesn’t know how. Priceless!

I told you guys Zarek couldn’t be trusted, didn’t I? I told you! There are times when civil disobedience is good and worthy, but only with the right leaders. What’s going on in the show right now reminds me of central African politics: get a corrupt politician enough military support and a power vacuum to exploit and watch the fireworks. Repeat every few years.

Now, granted, Roslin brought this on by retreating into herself and creating this power vacuum, but obviously the revolt is a metaphor for the personal, psychological upheaval the discovery of earth has brought upon the people of the fleet. That Roslin had to finally face the fact that leadership is not something you CHOOSE but something that is thrust upon you and the responsibility for which you can’t simply shed when it’s convenient was a GOOD thing. That it’s going to cost hundreds, if not thousands of people their lives (perhaps including the man she love’s) is tragic.

But, after years of hating her and how despotic she’d become, I got goose bumps when, in the trailer for next week, she lost it at Zarek and yells, “I am COMING FOR ALL of YOU!”

Same for Tory. I didn’t think I would EVER think that crazy broad has the right idea.

#17

Any team with smug (would-be) rapists automatically gets status as The Bad Guys.

#18

Well I think that there’s plenty of douchebaggery to go around.

I mean, I could make pretty much the same list for Adama and Roslin. (edited to add the list)

Adama: wanting to make peace with the rebel cylons and improve the fleets FTL good idea

      Forcing it on the civilian population at gun point douchebaggery

Roslin: Trying to take some time to get herself together after the trama of radioactive earth. good idea

leaving the entire fleet without a clear functioning civilian government Douchebaggery

#19

I think you’re right… there’s only a few episodes that deal with what the average guy in the fleet is feeling. What conflicts me about Zarek and Gaeta’s mutiny is that if I was an average guy, I might be supporting them.

We sympathize with Adama/Starbuck/Roslin because we, as the audience, have been privy to the secret meetings and behind the scenes decisions of the main characters… so even if their decisions are wacked, at least we know the reasoning behind them. Joe Colonial only knows what Adama and Roslin tell him-- and so with the combination of Erf, the Cylon civil war, the engine upgrades, and everything generally turning to craaap, mutiny seems like a pretty good choice right about now. Joe Colonial wants a change in leadership. The only problem is, Zarek is no Obama.

#20

Just curious, tho … what happens when some of the fleet has the longer-ranged drives and others don’t. Consider the following:

a) They’re down to enough power/fuel/life support for one or two more jumps. There’s a system with the right star type for a potentially habitable world close enough for the upgraded ships to make it, but NOT those without. Do they:

— Leave the others behind? “Sorry, you had your chance. We’d have all made it, but …”

— Cram everyone into the few ships with enough range (possibly ONLY the Tylium ship and Galactica) and hope the life support doesn’t give out?

— Stay with the others in the hopes that some other option will present itself before they all starve/run out of air?

b) Enemy Cylons (ie - Cavill and his happy bunch) show up. The only hope is to jump away. Some ships can easily jump far enough to forestall the Cylon’s finding them with any ease. Some can’t. The same basic options arise. Leave 'em, stuff 'em, or make the short hop and hope. This will be even more of an issue now that Galactica’s defenses and air wing are so compromised due to the mutiny.

Adama was right–ALL the ships have to have the same capabilities, jump-wise. Galactica and its crew are responsible for safeguarding the fleet. The ability to RUN is one of those safeguards.

And, sure, people might doubt the rebel Cylons’ sincerity. However, the Admiral in charge of defending the fleet from the Cylons is willing to trust them. As are a sizeable portion of the crew (if not, as we have now seen, all of the crew). Hell, the President is willing to trust them … a little.

They’ve fought other Cylons. Died fighting them … died fighting them to make their OWN DEATHS permanent. Perhaps some benefit of the doubt, eh?

<sorry … got a little heated there, but last night’s ep had me yelling at the screen on no less than four occasions>