I can no longer support the Jedi

Television, Movies Games and Books Star Wars
#1

From my viewings and re-viewings of the Star Wars films (as well as an occasionally painful and almost consistently disappointing reading of almost all of the Extended Universe novels), I have determined that the Jedi are arrogant, borderline autistic self centered jerks who are oblivious to how their actions and attitudes are perceived by those around them.

For example, the first Jedi we see cuts a guy’s arm off in a bar during a scuffle, maiming him for life. They establish telekinesis early on, he could have just shoved the guy out of the way and escalated to maiming/killing afterwards. His apparent lack of empathy is almost pathological.

If you watch the prequels, the Jedi Council is consistently pontificating without exercising any solid ethical basis for their actions. The entire Clone affair, for example. They use these guys without apparent regard for the fact that they’ve essentially taken control of a slave army. There’s no attempt to offer them a chance to make choices for themselves, they just take the reins and send them into blaster fire.

Why are they considered the ‘good guys’ again? Why SHOULDN’T they have been wiped out?

#2

You’re not the only one:

//youtu.be/d5mK7dzyUkM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5mK7dzyUkM

#3

that’s why guys like Han Solo is way more likeable than others on either side.

#4

I don’t know. When it was Luke vs. the Sith, it had appeal. Luke was kinda like you. He got these special powers and it was cool to follow his journey.

Then you get into this whole Jedi Order with its rules and craaap. They are essentially super-human and yet their precepts repress instead of advance or evolve the emotional and mental needs required for their power. They are better than everyone else except they walk around with this false humility meanwhile the Sith just exploit everyone. The Force creates some real mentally unstable douchbags.

Throughout the prequels they kept talking about balance to the Force. Yeah, here’s a thot. Fight it out without frakkin up the rest of the universe. The frakkin Jedi and Sith are more problems than their worth.

#5

Well said!

It’s funny, btw, because Anakin DOES bring balance to The Force too, if you think about it. In the beginning, there are thousands of Jedi and two Sith. By the end, there are two Jedi and two Sith. Balance!

So add ‘kinda dumb’ to the rest of the criticisms of the Jedi Council.

#6

the Jedi in the prequels are pretty stuck up. I mean in Attack, you had a big honkin libeary and Obi Wan looking for a planet. And the librarian says “if it’s not there it doesn’t exist”.

Really?

Did you…I dunno…TRY to double check?

Nope…don’t see it…doesn’t exist.

'tards.

The problem with the Sith is - they liek backstabbin’ each other. Palpatine didn;t need Dooku anymore…kill him. Seriously? Had your back and helped you run this war and this is how you do me?

so yeah - both sides have issues. But the Jedi…they got too full of themsleves

#7

The Jedi are kinda like the Federation… good in principle, sometimes douchey in practice.

#8

yea…i guess what i had always imagined of the jedi before the prequels came out was like the star wars equivalent of some badass monks but once the prequels came out they really solidified the idea of jedi being knights of the rebublic…so inevitably you see all the bureaucracy that comes along with it…much more like samurai…except lame

#9

The way that you mentioned is how it should have been. What we get are people who are cut off from everyone in their Ivory Towers. They forsake all emotional ties to be pure. By doing so they have become blind to the threats and universe around them.

They recognize that Anikin is a troubled Jedi. Yet they have him cozy up to Palpatine. Where in the emotional state he is in he can be easily manipulated into doing things he knows are wrong. Anikin was driven by love not only for his mother but for Padme. In the end it consumed him.

Luke to is driven my love also for not only the cause of the overthrow of the Empire. But also the love for his friends and especially his sister Leia. The difference is that Luke recognized the signs of the dark side and didn’t fall prey to them. Why you ask. Cause he had a strong foundation with his adoptive parents. Where Anikin was torn apart by the loses he had in his life. Luke used that to propel him to a higher level.

Just in reading the Series Fate of the Jedi. You can see how this has served him as the Grand Master of the Force. In the end the way they the Order has become after the Fall in ROTS is more in line to what they needed to be.

#10

AHA!!! Finally all I’ve suspected over the years has been confirmed :smiley: (dig on all the Oldboy reference)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BMgegut3UM

#11

DeathStarPR agrees with you, and has an open position in the Galactic Empire you should consider filling.

#12

Okay, so I should preface this by saying that I’m a huge prequel apologist and think that the movies’ biggest problem wasn’t anything other than lack of explanation where it was necessary.

That the Jedi Council’s douchey, pompous, self-important, heavy-handed, and stuffy attitude is the source of their downfall. What was once meant to be a source of order and justice has become too complacent in its own power and fails to see the growing evil directly under itself. Palpatine’s genius is in exploiting their overconfidence. The Order was not always as they are portrayed in the prequels. The Jedi as an order did good for millenia, and saved the Republic from countless threats (Mandalorians, ancient Sith, etc.), but when you do too good of a job, you stop being vigilant, and start pontificating rather than doing.

Obi-Wan and Yoda are both products of that era, which is what leads to their more questionable decisions (Obi slicing a dude’s arm off without making a decision, or Yoda placing a higher priority on Luke’s training rather than the safety of his kin (he got the wrong lesson from Anankin)).

#13

Seriously, I have to take issue with this one. First of all, the guy was a dirtbag. The scuffle was over nothing, a bump that was apologized for and Obi-Wan tried to be nice and buy the guy a beer. No, the dirtbag wanted to prey on a pair of seemingly easy targets. He pulled a gun on a kid and an old man, presumably to do worse than maim someone. Obi Wan was clearly being soft by not giving the mouthy dude his death sentence on behalf of any of the 12 systems who’d ordered it.
Pity factor for the murderous criminals in the bar hiding from the police: ZERO

#14

I’ll be devil’s advocate on this one, and say that Yoda’s choice was weighted towards the greater good. Han, Leia and Chewie’s lives were a lesser price to pay than the potential damage caused had Luke been turned to the dark side. Yoda wanted to make sure Luke was strong enough to resist, and not repeat the mistake made with Anakin.

#15

I think the bigger thing her is that Luke’s attempted ‘rescue’ failed utterly. Leia and Chewie escaped completely without Luke’s help and everyone failed to save Han. All Luke did by riding to the rescue was get his hand cut off and put everyone at further risk. Not to say Yoda could have been more polite about things.

I also agree with Edoz on the bar ‘scuffle.’

The Jedi Council as seen in the prequels were pretty bad, that I will agree with. They had grown complacent, lazy and arrogant. It took their fall for Yoda and Obi-Wan to change their ways. The truly ‘good’ Jedi lineage we see in the movies is Qui-Gon to Obi-Wan to Luke, and Luke does his best to make the New Jedi Order along those lines.

#16

This is also leaving out the most important thing (and one of the greatest lines in movie history mind you…)…Luke also learns prematurely who his daddy is, a fact Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted to wait until his training was finished to tell him…

(what always bugged me though, he runs off with incomplete training, he comes back to Dagobah, and his “training is complete”? Whatttttt?? I do accept maybe Yoda simply says this to Luke because he was dying and could teach him no more, but was still a little weak, but that was ROTJ for ya)

#17

“Your training is complete. You are now a giant douchebag like your father before you. Now go get some Princess pregnant…not your sister tho”

#18

:slight_smile:

Well played Mauer…well played!!

Though I do think Luke tried to de-douche-ify the Jedi somewhat…

#19

Well he did say that Luke now knew all that he required. I’m guessing Yoda figured he knew enough to kill Vader as that seemed to be what he was primarily concerned with and not necessarily full Jedi training.

#20

I knew he said it but I wanted to google the script to be accurate…I actually remembered the line exactly :smiley:

YODA
Strong am I with the Force… but not that
strong! Twilight is upon me and soon night
must fall. That is the way of things … the
way of the Force.

LUKE
But I need your help. I’ve come back to
complete the training.

YODA
No more training do you require. Already know
you that which you need.

Yoda sighs, and lies back on his bed.

(though I just realized you AGREED with me…oops…geesh my FAIL night continues :p)

HOWEVER…right after he does say:

LUKE
Then I am a Jedi?

YODA (shakes his head)
Ohhh. Not yet. One thing remains: Vader. You
must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi
will you be. And confront him you will.