The difference, of course, is that Zoe’s boyfriend was a heterosexual. However we may like to slice it, there are an awful lot more heteros in the world than gay people. Sexual orientation doesn’t really come into play in this sort of situation. Those are the perks of hegemony. You can have a straight terrorist without implying that all heterosexuals are terrorists The same can be true of the portrayal of homosexuals as well but the difference is that there are far, far fewer of them. One gay goes a long way.
Having all the LGBT characters be, well, how they are, certainly sends a signal. I think it wasn’t conscious and was simply the byproduct of creating an interesting character and, actually, wanting to bring a little diversity in. I respect that. However, the fact remains that homosexuals (particularly gay men) have repeatedly been portrayed as evil, immoral, goddless etc, and I just worry that Caprica is unconsciously continuing this tradition.
Perhaps. Espenson appears to be a tolerant soul if the Twitter is any indication.
I’d like to see more to get a sense of the emphasis. In the holographic club there was a lot of same sex kissing and nobody cared, but that placed wasn’t considered acceptable. I dunno, we’ll see.
While I can’t think of too many gay male characters of the evil/immoral type in scifi other than Gaeta off the top of my head, I hear what you’re saying and your frustration. But putting aside the types of queer characters you or I would personally like to see in Caprica, for purposes of GLBT acceptance in our society I still think it’s much more important to have gay characters that don’t fit the stereotypes held by the people in our world who are on the more conservative side.
congrates sean! that is wonderful. and she is very lucky to be playing mass effect 2 right after birth. even if she is just listening more than anything.
by the way, for a team that already has 3 summer glaus, i don’t know how the dollhouse challenge is going to do to my team
You know very well that’s not true at all 'talos! But now that you brought up the subject, I’m really worried what I’d get if I did a Google search for “Dumbledore Harry petafile fanfic”. :eek:
Yet another reason why exacerbating stereotypes of gay characters is bad. Bad wavilyem! Bad wavilyem!
Ya I got the jist of what they’re saying that like the ancient greeks and romans the concept of sexuality was much broader and certainly not stymied by doctrine, but I still didn’t get why the group marriage was demonstrated unless it’ll be used as a plot device later on for treachery within the marriage. I can see the offensiveness of it all since the LGBT/POLY people are “bad guys” though I think Adama’s brother will prove to be a very helpful character in the future. I’m still trying to piece the show together but it hasn’t been very deep yet and my feet are going to sleep.
I’m hoping that the STO dudes will be more than just “bad guys”. The world is rarely black & white, it would make a more compelling story if they were sympathetic characters in some way that makes the eventual Cylon uprising something that has more to it than just “teh robotz is rebelling@!!!”.
It’s astonishing how many people seriously started to think that after JKR dropped the gay bomb. I knew at least 3 people who came to ask me about it (being the token homosexual they knew). I was flabbergasted that their minds would go straight from “gay” to “child molester” Dumbledore has an awful lot of faults but diddling boys wasn’t one of them.
I didn’t mean it as child molester. It’s a play on words; coming out of the closet. As you say, JKR dropped the gay bomb so I figured, what would be the next title of Harry Potter book?
When it comes to characters, I never think straight or gay unless they are romantically involved and out themselves. So, my first reaction to JKR and Dumbledore was, “Huh? And?” It made absolutely no sense. Also, I think making the jump to child molester makes no sense as well.
I can understand you being flabbergasted but please understand I was in no way making that leap.
Does it really? I’m not all too clear on what you’re expecting here. You say you don’t hold a double-standard, but from the looks of it, you clearly do. A character like the one you’re advocating for doesn’t have any place in a show like Caprica. Not unless they stop with all the tense drama once in awhile and cut across the street to some random scene in a cafe for a mundane conversation with Joe McBoring and his boyfriend Alfred Faithfulton.
As I’ve said before, the characters ALL have to have their flaws, and considering the problems the rest of the cast has, many of which I feel would stereotype homosexuality infinitely worse, Sam got the best role for a homosexual.
Furthermore, What would you say societies impression of the mob actually is? Shows like Sopranos and movies like Scarface have huge cult followings and fanbases. Hell, even just the concept of a mafia itself is subject to much widespread study and reverence. I can tell you that the majority of people aren’t going to think Sam is “evil” for associating himself with a job that many hold such fascination for.
Now, I can admit that previous BSG portrayals of homosexuality were probably slip shod and last minute additions, but that doesn’t mean that they’ve portrayed the subject negatively. The fact that they even bother showing it as a stable, socially acceptable facet of society proves that it’s at the very least something they want to do right.
I think you’re misunderstanding that those of us who are perhaps cautious about celebrating the presence/development/characterization of characters like Sam aren’t doing so in a vacuum - yes this is about Caprica, but as you can tell from the rest of the comments here, it’s not just about Caprica. Just like Admiral Cain being lesbian in BSG wasn’t terrible characterization by itself, it’s just problematic when you take it in the context of film and television culture, in which the “EVIL LESBIAN!!!1!1!!!” is a tired trope, and given the paucity of queer characters in TV and film, does not accurately reflect the culture of which it is a part.
I’m just getting into this discussion, obviously pretty late in the game. However, I see nothing wrong with Sam’s portrayal of homosexuality IN THIS CONTEXT. If the show were a bunch of inter-galactic space travelling scientists on constant missions of mercy and the ONE homosexual was the evil plotting and ruthless gay alien, there might be a problem. This show is probably the wrong medium to introduce the “ideal” homosexual character. Even if this show were set on a utopian Caprica and Sam was still part of the mob from Tauron, I could say there was a problem.
But, the show is set on a planet where society is degrading and seems to be on the verge of self-destruction. People escape to the V-clubs to do things they can’t in reality. People are disagreeing violently over religion. People are creating machines designed with the sole purpose of killing other people. People are stealing technology from competitors.
I have to agree with Domestibot. If Sam and his partner/husband were portrayed as a stable gay couple who both hold uninteresting and fully legal jobs, who pay their taxes, drive the speed limit, and never drink or smoke…it would bring the story to a screeching halt every time we checked in on them and their dull, but safe, life. How could you work that in?
SeraphX, what would you change about Sam to make him “acceptable”? Or, what other character would you prefer to be “the gay one”? Or, if you can’t find answers to those exact questions, what character would you write in to this series to fill the role of “the gay one” if Sam was straight and the writers were looking for a new character to introduce who was gay and fit with the story?
Diddling anything wasn’t one of them 'til after the fact. Which makes you wonder why it wasn’t mentioned in series. Which makes you go straight to child molester.
Nearly every gay fan of the book will say the same thing: the relationship between Grindelwald and Dumbledore was obvious. I knew it a quarter way through that chapter. I guess it was more of a shock for others.
A lot of straight readers picked up on it, too I guess it’s something that’s just very strongly implied in the text, and JKR felt the need to clarify later.
I guess it’s something that’s just very strongly implied in the text, and JKR felt the need to clarify later.