Here we go again - Homosexuality in Caprica

Television, Movies Games and Books Caprica
#21

Interesting information, thanks! I have a certain level of love for Star Trek, like any other geek, but let’s be honest – they usually avoided really engaging in the deeper social issues. Some would argue that it would be inappropriate for the show but I think that mistakes the greater purpose of science fiction in our lives; that is to say, it is one of the few genres that is able to really examine our value system in a totally engrossing way. The half-black aliens were pretty crude, don’t you think? I appreciate what they did, though – and I know that the utopian ST world resonated with a lot of LGBT folk out there but I ultimately don’t think it deserves that much reverence.

Given the Greco-Roman bent of both BSG and Caprica it seems a total waste not to use that backdrop to really push people. I hope that’s what we’ll see in the coming weeks with Caprica.

#22

TOS pretty much invented (on TV anyway) the idea of Scifi as Social Commentary. The Black and White aliens may seem crude today, but it worked because you weren’t expecting that from a TV show. (I’d still be surprised if anyone unfamiliar with it figured it out today, actually.)

TNG was much more locked down precisely because everyone, even the suits, was hip to that by then.

BTW, you can see what Blood and Fire might have looked like (in a TOS era setting) courtesy of New Voyages.

#23

Well over all i thought it was a decent portrayal, not perfect but it never is; as for the Sam adama being a murder i don’t see it as a negative portrayal, because of his sexuality. he just a bad ass gangster. and he’s definitely one of my favorite characters. as for the polygamy angle that really didn’t faze me at all i mean honestly who cares so long as everyones and adult. yeah i just made made priest cry inside a little.

#24

i always felt that BSG’s society would be “gay friendly” or at least folks would have a " who cares" attitude about sexuality ( as caprica has kinda shown us they do)

I don’t think they did some kind of disservice to homosexuals by not have a whole- good guy be gay, I think they just told a story where none of those characters happened to be gay. Like it just didn’t come up in the writeing meetings. Not for political reason… just because it didn’t.

Cain being gay - it kinda fit. It gave her a reason above and beyond to hate Gina.

I never liked it for Geata… just because it felt kinda thrown into the Webisode and wasn’t really adressed overtly in the show. Not a problem with the homosexuality, just their decision of how to do it. It felt like it wasn’t a natural part of the story… it was something they were doing contrary to their creative effort to appease some fans.

Which leads me to this. I felt the Geata thing felt forced. There is this push amongst sci-fi fans to always EXPECT sci-fi writers to make sure they have a check list set up and make sure they include everyone. I think the gay man box hadn’t been checked, so Felix became that.Story be damned. ANd how did it work out. They did it poorly which pissed me off, and it wasn’t gay enough for the people that were wanting that, and they did it when Felix was createing a civil war on the ship ( and on this forum- I still say Go Felix! Down with Ro-dama!) so the people that wanted a gay veresion of Helo, Dee, or Chief felt robbed as well.

I mean do action adventure tele dramas need to create a check list of every race, culture and creed in order to function effectivly?

If someone is missed, is it a dis-service to the story? Is Starbuck not kick ass if her wingman isn’t gay?. Is Tigh not a cool old cat if Capt Kelly isn’t Bi. Doesn it make 33 a bad episode if Billy and Dee aren’t gay? I would think not.

I say this. I liked Deep Space 9 ( my favorite trek to rewatch) . I am a white american guy from the south. I never once felt like that show suffered ( nor did I actually notice till It was pointed out to me in 2009) because there are no white males from the United States on the show. I never felt like " Where are the white southerners?" I just watched the show and liked it. I didn’t feel the need to see myself on screen… especialy since it is not only fiction, but fantasy.

Caprica did it right tonight. Not for haveing the gay dude not be a flammer. Not for haveing the gay dude be bad. But for haveing young Bill Adama not even think twice about it. That showed us the equlity right there.

#25

wait, i wouldn’t consider Gaeta or Hoshi as a villain. Gaeta went a bit off course from the Adama way, but I don’t think he was particularly wrong.

totally agree with you here. it felt forced. sure the fans joked about it over the years, but the way it was handled felt like an after thought. i did like Hoshi’s acting tho, when he was feeling for Gaeta and what Gaeta went through.

and I am also sort of on the Gaeta revolt wagon…

#26

I got a quarter that says Seraph is using this thread to distract everyone to his real plan, to take over the World! :eek:

Isn’t there a Homosexual hosting the most popular show on TV, American Idol? :confused:

#27

He states otherwise. Unlike many forceful groups out there, I tend to take people on their word when it comes to who they are attracted to. I can’t read their mind or their libido.

#28

I don’t see any reason why people should be upset with Sam’s portrayal of homosexuality. What I’m getting is the general reason for this outcry is because he’s a murderer, and therefore portrays homosexuals in a non-flattering light.

Seriously, boo hoo. Have you SEEN this cast of characters? Is there even one character on the show remotely close to being without their flaws? Let’s take a look at the list:

  1. Zoe Graystone - Runaway religious zealot.
  2. Sister Clarice - Manipulative woman with some agenda.
  3. Daniel Graystone - God Complex
  4. Amanda Graystone - emotional trainwreck.
  5. Lacy Rand - Yellow-bellied, being asked to do everything for everyone, and thus far doing nothing at all.
  6. Joseph Adama - Opportunistic.

Just to name a few.

I think I even recall somewhere reading that this show was to take on an almost soap-opera approach, with no one character ever being the true hero. They’re all just supposed to be people, neither good or bad. That’s one of the things that makes Caprica such a great show.

I think it would be wrong of the LGBT community to expect a double-standard, with their character being some unrealistic, flawless entity on the show. Sam Adama is who he is, and I’m very grateful to the writing staff for working his sexuality in quite seamlessly to the character.

Oh, and he ain’t no token gay if we already saw him with his husband Larry :stuck_out_tongue:

#29

woah, what an first post. welcome to the forum.

i really like Larry. btw, what is he named larry…

is Sam Adama really a murderer? i don’t recall if it is mentioned that he killed anyone. I get this feeling that he just does petty crimes for the boss. When Joseph asked him to kill, Sam looked really uncomfortable.

#30

He killed the ‘Smoking Man’ in the pilot.

It was just a job, man.

#31

Remember the TNG episode with the androgynous aliens (all played by female actors I think)? One of them felt like she was “female” and in the end her people sort of cured her of that delusion. Did that episode result from what you’re talking about?

I absolutely agree. They wanted a gay character and they decided to put that on Gaeta at the last minute.

While you’re right that all the characters have some kind of quirk, it’s not the same thing to say someone is a zealot or is an “emotional trainwreck” as it is to say they’re a murderer / violent thug. These things are very different.

I’m gay and I would prefer that if they’re going to show homosexuality to create at least one gay character who’s on the same level of morality as the good guys. It might be nice to see at least one who’s not so familiar with guns and fists.

I think Hollywood used to want to add homosexuality to a villain to make him/her even more dangerous. Nowadays, it seems to do the opposite…it kinda makes the character a little more sympathetic and different. Either way, it’s still using homosexuality as a gimmick. And, as usual, the rule of thumb is that major gay characters should be played by straight actors…as if there’s a dearth of aspiring gay actors in Los Angeles or Vancouver.

Despite all this, Sam being gay is not my gripe with Caprica. I’m ok with that, but have other problems with the show.

#32

What’s more realistic, a murdering thug from a powerful crime syndicate or a regular dude? We’re looking at a very distinct group of people here, I get that. And the show doesn’t have time to show even more characters who could portray homosexuality in a more positive light. I brought this up because the BSG 'verse has had something of a sordid past when it comes to gay characters.

I’d have no problem with this portrayal if there was something to counter-balance it. The only LGBT characters we’ve seen in this verse have been: an incredibly ruthless Admiral who tore families apart for their skills and stripped civvie ships for parts; and Gaeta, who was never the most emotional, human character and then he goes and tries to kill Adama and is complicit in literally destroying their government (Quorum Massacre); and Hoshi, who was sort of nice, but seemed like a kind of oblivious do-gooder who was the butt of a couple jokes.

I’m not asking for a flaweless entity and I think whoever stated that has misread my intentions. Complex charactesr is what makes RDM and crew brilliant. But you can make non-criminals complex and interesting. Murderous mafioso types aren’t inherently any more complex than anything else, it’s just how they choose to portray it. And it’s a fact that LGBT characters have been consistently shown to be pretty nasty people.

That being said, Sam is probably my favorite character. He was funny, cute, and interesting. I’ll be keeping an objective eye out, though.

#33

Once again, I’d like to point out we are 3 episodes in. We don’t know where they are going with these characters, we don’t know who will be introduced, in fact there are so far few of them we even know the sexual orientation of. I also would like to point out this is the first time I’ve ever seen a show that you can truly say that about. Typically they are all straight with the token gay guy…lesbians are rarely portrayed at all except for straight male fantasy discussions.

What I find interesting in the Sam character so far is the fact that he is indeed a mafioso & is not punished for lacking masculinity because he is gay. Mafioso’s are typically portrayed as hyper sexual men with testosterone overload & don’t you dare question their manhood by even suggesting they are itnerested in other men! So far his sexuality has simply made him a complex character. I don’t see Sam at this point as being a cliche at all. His morality so far is quite ambiguous but not depraved. He is not your typical “mob guy” or “gay guy” in the slightest.

I can see the concern given the history of how minorities are portrayed in popular media. People want to see people like themselves being presented accurately. However, we need to be cognizant of the fact that Joe-Blow gay dude living his life is boring as hell to watch. He also shouldn’t be the second guy to die either.

I think we as a society need to grow the hell up. I want to see a person, who they have sex with doesn’t define who they are, it is one aspect of a larger picture. The larger picture is what I as a viewer am interested in. I look forward to the day when a character can be presented without a special interest complaining that they aren’t being portrayed properly. I also look forward to the day when writers present characters without relying on hackneyed cliche’s to fill out the picture.

#34

Here’s a well written review of Caprica, and this author seems to favor the portrayal of Sam:

http://www.robwillreview.com/?p=3468

#35

I disagree. Zoe’s fellow zealot boyfriend is even worse than a murderer, he’s a MASS murderer with a PASSION for what he did… With Sam it at least seems to be just a profession, “nothing personal,” as someone on here previously stated. Now regarding Sam being on the “same level,” if you ask me, I’d already say he’s heads above Ben.

Furthermore, really, look at the world they’re in. What role could Sam possibly fill that would be any less upsetting? The uproar would be even worse if HE were the terrorist. Would it be any better if he filled the “emotional trainwreck?” The schemer? If you ask me, I feel those roles would stereotype homosexuality infinitely worse than the one he’s in. I’d prefer to see a strong, self-assured homosexual, and I feel that’s what Sam is.

Yes! This! ^

#36

While I dislike the fact that one gay character is a murderer and the other is forgiving of it I am happy to see an accepted marriage, even more the multiple marriage. I’ve experience with them and they have the conflicts we see in the show. Again, in my experience, this is a “nice” version of such a marriage, the real ones I’ve seen are harsher in their conflicts. But that’s just my experience.

Polytheist faiths can be as diverse as Caprica portrays them. It good to see it again. Heretofore, only Big Love was the example, which while not bad, didn’t ring true with what I have seen. Caprica does.

I don’t believe Sister Willow is an addict inasmuch as she uses them recreationally. I could be proven wrong, but it seemed she almost had a purpose for those drugs.

At any rate, I am glad to see this.

#37

Did you mean polygamous relationships?

#38

I would also like to point out that the Sam character is also not being portrayed as the super effeminate swishy gay boy out to perpetrate evil on the unsuspecting hetero’s you so often see in movies & television.

#39

I wholeheartedly agree. The fact that Sam and the other characters aren’t your typical stereotypical “mob guy”, “gay guy”, terrorist, etc. give a lot of originality to the characters and the show. Plus, I really do believe that if you’re going to make gay characters fit every single stereotype, you might as well just leave them out or have them be straight instead. It’s only when people see gay characters as equals instead of “the gay guy” that we’ll have any sense of equality in our universe.

#40

I can see the complaints people have. I want to see more people of color on TV. Especially in lead roles.

But, it seems many, especially Black men, are or become addicts. Dr. Stephen Franklin from B5, Lt. Ford from SG Atlantis, Dr. Richard Webber from Grey’s Anatomy, some guy I only saw once because I don’t watch on a CSI show, etc.

I wish there were more roles that weren’t stereotypical for people of color. But, I’m not in a position to dictate that…