GWC Podcast #73

As you might imagine, this podcast focuses almost entirely on the first new content we’ve received in what seems like years: Razor. We ran long, so we’ll take your calls in next week’s ‘cast. Highlights: we tear into Cain’s motivations for her odd leadership style, discuss culpability and blame, pose numerous theories regarding the hybrid’s prediction about Starbuck, and make some pretty crazy guesses about what’s coming down the pike in season four — whenever that happens. Congratulations, GWCers — you’ve made it all the way to Razor. It’s just three or four more months to new episodes.

http://www.galacticawatercooler.com/2007/11/26/gwc-podcast-73/

you guys really went for it, two 'casts on Thanksgiving weekend !! TY !!

Holy Craaaap 123 minutes on Razor…nice !

Hey guys, I just want to say that we came to the same conclusions but I TOTALLY didn’t listen to the podcast before my post. :slight_smile:

I agree with Chuck on the Hybrid not necessarily talking about KT’s harbinger status being for humans. I think He/It is talking about the cylons. I haven’t seen anything with the Hybrids that suggests they are sympathetic to the human cause.

I gotta disagree with y’all with regards to Cain’s leadership style, at least prior to her popping her XO.

Evidently, none of you guys have ever served in the military. The way Cain reacted to Shaw’s tardiness was very mild compared to the reaming she would have gotten from any number of my former COs. And the fact that the rest of the CIC crew was in on the joke tells me that everyone knew Cain was just giving the FNG a hard way to go. It is like that in the military; life is tough, wear a cup.

As to her choice of revenge as her motivation, and by default, the crew’s, is she really that much different than Adama or Tigh? Remember Roslin and Lee having to beg for disaster pods at Ragnar? Adama was planning on doing exactly what Cain did… going out and sticking it to the Cylons… probably dying in the process, but by Gods go down with their flags flying and not quitting. Mission before all else. Hooah?

Mission. Adama’s concept of mission changed after being confronted with the stand of the President. He came to see that his first duty, was to see to the safety of those civilians. Mission tasking change. It is now no longer imperative to fight the Cylons to the death. There are 50,000 +/- people left in the universe, and they depend on Galactica, her guns and her pilots to protect them from annihilation. Adama came to understand this.

Cain did not. Then again, as Adama stated, she did not have any type of counterweight to balance the concept of making the Cylons remember who gave them a good shellacking. Mission before all. That is a concept that is sometimes difficult for those who haven’t served to actually grasp at its root level. Everything and everyone is expendable; the mission is sacred. When Cain made revenge their mission, she started down a path that only had one way to go, and there was no turning back after she terminated her XO. Should Fisk have back-shot her? I likely would have. But it is also just as likely that a Marine would have gunned me down for murdering my superior officer. Ye pays yer money and ye takes yer chances.

Comparisons were also made as to crew composition. I might be wrong, but as the Galactica was due to be decommissioned, she held a scratch crew, and likely might have beeen a mix of odds and sods who needed to be placed for a tour. The Pegasus, being a ship-of-the-line, would have had a top notch crew. Am I saying that Galactica had the dregs? Not by any stretch, but she was heading in and not expecting combat. Her crew wouldn’t necessarily have been of the same quality as Pegasus’ crew. I have often wondered at the ratio on Galactica of reserve service versus active duty crew. I would imagine that the ratio would be entirely different on Pegasus, with a MUCH higher active:reserve ratio.

Sorry for the longwinded post. Do I think Cain went round the twist? Abso-bloody-lutely. Was she always that way? I don’t think so. She seemed awfully young to make Rear Admiral. She had to have had some excellent fitreps from her former COs, especially regarding her command ability and potential. It is not normal procedure to place homicidal maniacs in charge of capital ships, give them a flag, and have the possibility of detached service, due to comm distances. It would be like putting Hannibal Lechter in charge of organ donations… not smart. Cain had to have had something positive going for her prior to the attack… and then snapped afterwards.

I’ll go back to lurk mode now. :slight_smile:

I was going to hang Christmas decorations this morning, but it’s raining here in the northeast, so I decided to read the technical data Cain had while exercising on the treadmill…this is what my wife would refer to as “a ridiculous way to spend your morning”. This makes it even more fun !
The paperwork Cain is reading concerns evaluations of the Pegasus and her crew. One area titled “Combat Infrastructure Eval.”, states that “Readiness drill scores have dropped 12%. Fatigue and moral appear to be factors. New recruits are not scoring as high as previous classes.” Adm. Cain’s leadership seems to have already taken a toll on the Peggy’s crew, even before the attack.

“Flight Deck Restructuring Eval. Summary: Training viewed as non-essential has dropped off by 40%. Essential training is down 22% from 20 cycles previous. Training scores have decreased a similar amount.” Which leads me to believe that there’s been a steady drop in military budget, perhaps ? There have been 40 yrs of peace, after all. Hard to keep justifying all those expensive field exercises.

“Incident Summary and Eval. H1” (Hanger 1 maybe?)…
3 incidents involving raptors,with minor (level 1) damage. 14 incidents with vipers, with level 1 damage. 7 incidents involving shuttles, with level 2 damage (yikes, more training for the shuttle pilots please !).
And 21 incidents involving the “deck”, with level 3 damage. I guess those viper landings are tough on the deck as well as the landing skids.

There’s more, but my eyes are starting to cross !! I just figured I’d get this info out before PIKE asked…;):smiley:

Where the heck did you get this Topgun???

Free Time + 53 inch TV X Tivo = too much information.:smiley:

Haha… Roger that!

Well, kinda cool that you saw all that. And I completely believe it given Cain’s leadership style. I commanded troops in Iraq and yeah, there are PLENTY of frack-heads like that around with no clue about people. Effect on morale and mission accomplishment was the same.

Military is society, and high ranking military folk actually do come equipped with morale boundaries without needing a “compass” to keep them in line. Just wanted to point that out. :slight_smile:

As a combat vet and soon to be education major, just wanted to say I think it’s cool to see all the military folk coming out of the woodwork. Seeing as how it seems most the other people in this forum are in the education field, I feel like I have a foot in both worlds. I look forward to future BSG discussions.

BTW, I agree with Andy L. I may have only been a lowly squad leader, but I sure as hell hazed the FNGs(frackin new guys). Cain’s reaction to Kendra was not extraordinary.

Just had a thought. How weird would it be if Cain had her own TV show: Cain and company?

thank you for the quiznos mention…that also drove me nuts! just wondering where “larry” came from regarding the old silons? thanks

I cant belive Cain couldnt realize that her mission shouldnt be revenge. Cain thought they were the last of humanity, therefore she should try to preserve it, her mission should have been the same as adamas. Trying to find a new home(maybe earth?). And one day she could, like D’Anna put it ‘Nurse the dream of vengance down through the ages so they could one day ride out into the stars and hunt the cylon once more’.

P.S- This is my first post and I look forward to posting much more.

If you read the first post in the thread “Larry’s World”, you shall see the origin of Larry the Cylon, as created by GWC member “dxf” in an inspired fit of genius.

Larry is the Cylon young Bill Adama cracked with a pipe in the Razor 'sodes.

This thread explains and amplifies it. It started right after the third and forth “Flashbacks” that promoted Razor.

Which TG just posted above me…

Welcome to the forums and watercooler. Your Alpaca and copy of “The Big Lebowski” will be issued shortly. In the meantime, kick back, relax and don’t mind Larry. He hogs the chips, but he means well.

I’m not surprised at all that Fisk didn’t take a chance and try to take Cain out if he had a chance. It is pretty clear that the Pegasus was turning into a cult of personality focus upon Cain. In his mind I bet he thought:

A) If he did say “Yes Sir!” then shoot her in the back that one of the other bridge officers would then shoot him in revenge, as the revenge vibe seemed to be running strong.

  1. He may have actually believed, as I think many of the crew believed, that their best chance at medium term survival was under Cain’s command. I assume they had all given up on long-term survival, and that alone I think explains much of their actions.

III) From what I saw of Fisk that last thing he would want is to be in ultimate command in this time of war. However, he seemed okay with the promotion once Pegasus joined up with Galactica and Adama could be in charge and thus Fisk was only the penultimate commander in the fleet. That’s why he was so smarmy, he seemed to be the type of person that liked the power of his rank but could not handle the responsibility.

Just the silicon ones, so your Doritos are safe.

Hey guys, nice podcast, as always, although this one was especially nice since, well, we had new content to talk about. I’m afraid I listened to it while engaged in other work and, coupled with the three hours of writers’ meeting from RDM which I’m also in the middle of, I can’t remember any details I wanted to comment on. Mostly, I think you guys hit the nail on the head re: your interpretations of the story. I think I’ll have more to say about the story once I re-watch Razor with the Mrs. later this week.

I did want to say, Chuck and Audra, that Heroes is, indeed, quite addictive. My wife and I watched the first season in a matter of days just because we couldn’t get enough of it when we picked it up on DVD last summer. It’s a pretty fun show.

Guess what GWC
YOU SUCK
ive called in for two weeks in a row for the intro and nothin’
FRAK YOU!!!

remember its MY call if you suck or not ha
just joking of course :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah guys PWD

Being a practicing Dudehist, I find I have some spare time. And despite numerous viewings of “Razor,” I can’t offer anything close to what Topgun posted. But I noticed, during one of Adama’s flashbacks, that the man who becomes the Hybrid was imprisoned in one of the cages Adama saw. Of course, it’d stand to reason that he would’ve been at some point, but to see him as a terrified human and not the Hybrid was a little unnerving.

Also, I think the unique sound of the Hybrid’s voice is the result of it being part machine and part human. You clearly still hear the human quality, but there’s an element present that sounds very similar to Larry and company. I think Audra referred to it as his “reverb.”