GWC Podcast #195

When it comes to Batman or as they used to say in the 70’s ‘The Batman’, live action movies don’t really work as well for him as animation does. He is after all an artists creation, and fans are used to seeing his cape billowing in the wind and casting long shadows from rooftops, or creating menacing silhouettes as he stalks criminals in the moonlight. And we are also quite used to those infamous white slits for eyes which would look really strange in a live action movie.

So how to judge the best Batman in the movies? How about via a list of criteria based upon the familiar comic book hero. Costume- Eyes- Chin- Presence-Gadgets- Vehicles- And for Bruce Wayne… Build- Brooding- Charisma- And we should also include another important character… Gotham City!

Keaton:

Costume- It was the very first of its kind so I will give them a break on it. It was groundbreaking and ambitious, but very impractical. The actor and stuntman could barely move in it. Eyes- the black shoe polish looked silly but Keaton really emoted through them well. Chin- Keaton did not have one. Presence- He really threw himself into the role and did well, remember the famous “I am Batman!” Gadgets- Pretty descent gadgets overall. Vehicles- Not only did he have the Iconic Batmobile but he also had the only motion picture Batplane!:smiley:

As Bruce Wayne: Build- He is small and skinny so he fails. Brooding- He did well, no complaints there. Charisma- He was no socialite or partier, but he was approachable and believable as a ladies man. Gotham- Burton’s Gotham City was Excellent!

Kilmer:

Costume- much more functional and glamorous. Eyes- calculating and absorbing but not very menacing. Chin- good strong chin. Presence- More athletic and flamboyant, but not as fear inducing. Gadgets- better quality props. Vehicles- Only the batmobile, and it was not as cool. Wayne: Build- great build! Looks the part. Brooding- Val excelled in this arena, he looked very possessed and troubled. Charisma- No complaints here… except that he was blonde. Gotham- Looked innocent during the day, but became surreal and mysterious at night. Very interesting, loved the glowing graffiti.

Clooney:

Costume- Slightly improved version of the Kilmer suit. Eyes- Not bad. Chin- Pretty decent. Presence- Poor, Batman should not crack jokes. Gadgets- About even with Kilmer’s. Vehicles- Not so great. As Wayne: Build- Blech! Brooding- Non existent, he was snarky! Charisma- Too much* Gotham- Over the top, they took the surreal looking Gotham I liked in the previous film and turned it into a cartoon…

Bale:

Costume- Primo!! Eyes- Dark and powerful. Chin- Strong. Presence- Fills the room, but please…. Enough with the voice already. Somebody get the man a lozenge or something… Gadgets- Believable and practical, not as single purpose as some of the earlier ones in movies. Some of the gadgets in earlier movies seemed as if they had been designed just for a particular scene, and would have no other practical function in day to day crime fighting. Vehicles- THE TUMBLER! And it gave birth to the Batbike… It may not armor itself like Keaton’s, or look as sleek or jet like. But it can crush cars and shoot explosive projectiles.:eek:

As Wayne: Build- Looks like a predator under that tux. Brooding- Aces. Charisma- I like the fact that Wayne seems to be playing a role when he becomes the Playboy. It is a persona that he endures to get what he needs from the up strata of Gotham elite.:cool:

Gotham- Not as dark or decaying as Burton’s Gotham but it works. It has it’s good sections and bad, it is a little more realistic and modern looking than Burton’s. Tim’s had a better visual appeal and seemed to even blend time periods together with interesting architecture. But Nolan seems to want Gotham to look more like a city you have visited, or seem like some day YOUR city could become Gotham if you let it.

*Batman is the opposite of Superman. Superman grew up with humans and therefore even though he is actually an alien, feels a strong connection and bond with humanity. And so views himself as Clark Kent, and dons the persona of Superman to save lives and meet out justice. Bruce Wayne on the other hand essentially died when his parents did, and a new personality took hold. Which eventually grew to become the Batman, Bruce is just a role he plays to finance his crime fighting and influence politics.

That is why I took such strong offense to Clooney’s ‘Oceans Eleven’ handling of Bruce Wayne. :mad:


So, final analysis… Keaton bless his heart did the best he could with what he had, for a scrawny comedian he did very well indeed. He really threw himself into the part, he made an impressive Batman but a not so believable Bruce Wayne. And since it was not due to his acting he should feel no shame about it. ****

Kilmer on the other hand despite his golden locks made an impressive Bruce Wayne but a not so spectacular Batman. ***

Clooney was a groan inducing Batman and a migraine inducing Bruce Wayne. *

Bale is firing on all cylinders, he succeeds in both roles. *****

But remember this is simply judging the Batmans against the comic book character. Movies are an art form, and art is a very subjective medium, so personal taste is not taken into account here. This is not taking into account music, visual style, pacing, action choreopgraphy, special effects, writing, acting, set design, production values, cinematography, or direction. All of which affect the viewer’s experience, and everyone goes to a movie for different reasons and with different expectations.

So in the end… this is really just my own humble opinion. Take from it what you will!

I just find the whole thing creepy. The book seems to tell teenage girls that it is alright if a boy stalks you, and that bothers me…

I find Edwards behavior repulsive, sneaking in and watching her sleep and so on… Not cool.

And vampires shouldn’t sparkle… (giggle):stuck_out_tongue:

As for the movies… Personal taste. Kids could spend their money on far worse things, teen angst ridden urban horror is rather benign in my book.

AHHHHHHH!!! [does a little happy dance] Finally someone else who digs Ladyhawke! I’ve been trying to get Chuck and Audra to watch that movie for the last 4 years!

Totally know what you mean on the Rutger Hauer thing though…still can’t see him as a bad guy either.


[sigh] Alas, I think I’m not gonna get much support on this Twilight thing. Though I hold true to my statement, it’s gonna play out as a wicked ass turning point in Vamp lit. Especially after the forth book is made into a moive. I do enjoy them, (both book and movie) even though it’s a bit different than every other vamp story you’ve ever read…perhaps that’s why right there. Dunno, just enjoy the hell out of the story.

Oh, and as far as Trek…

Thanks to Sanctuary my dream Trek Show finally seems technically and financially feasible. For years I have dreamed of a Star Trek anthology series Hosted by Q. Which would tell stories within the Trek universe from different time periods and from the perspective of multiple races and cultures. Q would introduce each episode and make snide comments after each commercial break.

I always felt this would offer such an amazing amount of creative freedom for the writers, but the downside was the cost of keeping around so many sets and large props. But now thanks to improvements in and the proven practicallity of computer generated backgrounds, that is no longer a factor.

Huh. Sort of ‘The Trek Zone.’

I like.

Then I gotta ask about Kahless clone then?

I’ve always just assume the special effect were just getting better.
:confused:

Chuck, I really think you need help with your aversion to Catholic schoolgirls. And I know the perfect person for the job. (Simmer down, Sean.)

are you kidding??? love love LOVE Ladyhawke!! it is the perfect fairy tale, with magic, romance, and snark, the original skeevil John Wood, and the exquisitely beautiful Michelle Pfeiffer.

listen to me, Audra. watch it now. all other priorities rescinded. crew expendable.

wait, scratch that last bit :slight_smile:

Kilmer had a bat boat and a bat plane too fyi

It has been so long I guess I forgot… ooops.:o

money and makeup effects improving are the realistic reason for the change in Klingon appearance.

but in verse, they came up with a explanation in Enterprise, the first part of the story arc involved Brent Spiner. And explained Soong family’s obsession with artificial life.

Though, some would argue Enterprise is an alternate universe story just like the new Star Trek.

Anyway, Klingons started out looking like Kahless in the drawing. But the genetic experiment gone wrong tried to fuse some human DNA (fron Dr. Soong’s experiment) into Klingon DNA, causing the infected to lose their forehead ridges in a painful process. and also it achieve the goal of making Klingons even stronger and smarter, it also causes people to die from the augment virus.

When Enterprise helped to find a cure for it, the klingons didn’t died from the augment virus, but they did lose their forhead ridges. But their children would have their ridges back. And that’s why there were Klingons without ridges.

Chuck, I’ve followed a few heated discussions about Twilight on several boards and I think yours is the sanest comment I’ve read. Kudos.

Besides those who either love or hate Twilight based on its perceived merits or flaws, isn’t there also a third group–the “guilty pleasure” people? I read an article in the Washington Post about some fans who happily agreed with Twilight’s critics–about bad prose, plot, characters, questionable social messages, etc–but were completely drawn in anyway. I can understand that. I’m sure we all have some horrible (from a critical standpoint) books, movies and whatnot that we feel an unreasonable affection for, no?

Now I must carve out a couple hours to listen to the podcast…

Here’s a couple books I’ve read that involve young Jim Kirk and/or his dad George Kirk

Final Frontier

Best Destiny

I remember I liked Final Frontier (not to be confused with ST V movie).
But I don’t remember Best Destiny.

Sorry if someone already mentioned it - but at one time in the most recent podcast, Audra wondered who in “Terminator Salvation” actually “played” Arnold´s body. As far as I know, they hat taken a plaster cast of Arnold´s chest or something similiar back in the 80ies when they shot the 1st Terminator movie - and digitalized it now somehow to make Arnold appear again in all his youthful shape … Greetings from Germany, Ingo

Re: The Twilight haters: If you hate something so, why devote any part of your life to baggin’ on it?

Except the Burton Batman movies; howling about them is public service.

yay, Duesseldorf, i played in a softball tournament there for my international school. i have fond memory of that place. well… mostly just about how green it was.

yep, it´s quite green (except for now, in wintertime :frowning:
In fact, I live only 3 minutes away from Duesseldorf´s International School, at the shores of the river “Rhine” …

Diane Carey really gets Star Trek, especially the Original Series characters. She is one of the best Star Trek novel authors. Both books are highly recommended. IMO, Final Frontier is better than Best Destiny so start there.

i remember seeing Rhine. But since I lived by the Elbe in Hamburg when I was there, I thought to myself Rhine isn’t very big… it sure was beautiful though.

GalaxyRanger is also from Germany. Perhaps when Caprica starts, there can be a GWC live frak party in Germany.

anyone heard from GalaxyRanger?