I have been circling this idea, but you put it so perfectly now I don’t need to figure out an elegant way of putting my thots. I agree precisely with this statement, but don’t want to use it as an excuse for the portrayal of Megan Fox or for onscreen female characters in general. I would like to flip this from annoyance at those writers/directors/producers who choose to perpetuate this antique archetype and choose to celebrate those writers/directors/producers who have chosen to flip this approach on its head. James Cameron with Sarah Connor and Ripley, Joss Whedon with nearly every female character he writes…it brings me comfort that we can recognize that female characters as simply reward, eye candy and plot device will be tolerated less and less.
Yeah, you’d like to see the flip side more often (think Jane Austen.)
I’m struggling to understand what’s going on there. Why didn’t Molly Ringwald end up with Ducky? Test Audience dissatisfaction. Why was Magel demoted from “Number One” to “Nurse Chapel?” Test Audience dissatisfaction. I’m not sure what it means besides rather base concepts of storytelling.
I agree with you and would push it an inch further: audiences are dissatisfied because they come in holding not only the baggage of society, but what society has taught them to expect. When the time is right to challenge society and someone is brave enough to do so it makes a very real impact.
Use the Ripley example. The movie Alien started as the standard sci-fi horror tale. They even structured it so you think it is going to follow the formula of the good looking dude saving the day…until he got offed. Making Ripley the hero was unheard of and groundbreaking only to be ampped up to eleven in Aliens.
Taking these steps is hard for an audience because they are taught to be passive…sit back and we will comfort you for two hours. Challenging their expectations takes work…getting them involved in the narrative and making them think about those predispostions they carry around…not easy.
That sounds about right. The real problem is that the audience is asked these questions as they leave the theater. The GF thought NuTrek was grand for several days, until it all settled in and she came around to the idea that it was nonsensical. We had been planning to see it again, but lost interest.
The really good, challenging stuff will, by definition, throw an audience at first. But those same people will chew on a story over the next few days, and possibly come to a different conclusion than they started out with. (I comment on the Tor.com rewatches of TOS, and even the reviewers will admit that their positions change after some conversation with their commentors. Just like everyone else does.)
Summary: Don’t rely so much on test audiences. Rely on getting something that is internally consistent.
Yikes! I’ve only seen her in a couple eps so far as we’re catching up on T:TSCC, but that was my bad on the accent. I wasn’t quite sure about it anyway.
Agreed. I don’t think Megan Fox’s character is “useless” and I certainly don’t begrudge her good looks. But I agree with Sithwich and Solai - her minimal role as a plot device and prize for the male hero is annoying. She may be smart and tough, but those skills aren’t really put to much use in the 2007 movie. One thing that bothers me is that it continues to be such a cliche that I think young girls grow up thinking those stereotypes are the limits of what women are supposed to be.
BTW… RIPLEY FTW!!!
It’s a vicious circle.
The movie market panders to stereotypes for public consumption to a public that is influenced by stereotypes presented by the movie market.
Fun Fact:
The highway sequences in Matrix Reloaded were filmed on the Cypress Freeway in Oakland which had been closed since the Loma Prieda earthquake in '89.
I was surprised that Leia was dropped down to 6th place, but then I wouldn’t move Ripley, Starbuck, Scully, or Sarah Connor move out of the top five. That leaves Buffy, but I’m not that familiar with the TV version, and am sure she will have quite a following here. What was also questionable is that Six ranks way down at #19 behind a number of lesser candidates (IMHO). Also surprised to see Xena way down at #23. Then again no one asked me… 
Oh, and I also have to add that I had for the longest time I hand no idea what you were talking about regarding a bull and Beauty and the Beast. I finally figured it out, but when I hear B&B I think of:
Then again I’m a child of the 80’s don’t have kids, yet…
all of this discussion makes me wonder…could we have accepted Megan Fox’s character in the Sam role?..or would the Fanboys have started rioting?
Her getting the car would have makes sense (she might have stolen it…hehehe) she seems to be proactibe enough ( she did cut that one tranformer with a powersaw) and she coud have gotten the boy in the end as a reward
but i suspect Shaun would have burned down the theater in protest
I like it! Make her more “Starbuck” like and it might have worked…
Hell yeah, I would totally dig Sam being a Samantha. As long as Bumblebee is yellow and cool… I don’t care. To paraphrase Han Solo: I’m not in it for the hot chicks and I’m not in for the butt-shots. I’m in it for the giant robots. I expect giant robots in my Transformer movies.
I thnk Han might be in it for the butt-shots 
I was at work and listening when the discussion of whether Prince Charming had a foot fetish came on. I was in tears trying to not laugh too loud by the end of it.
Let me preface this by saying I did enjoy the cast and I hate doing this…
I feel cheated Sean, I would have liked to hear your thoughts on a lot more and I didn’t due to Chuck and Adura’s derailing of the cast…
Guys you know I love you and I laughed out loud, I really did.
I just feel that there was a lot of time taken up that shouldn’t have been…
I feel like an ass for this… I am sorry guys…
Y’know that got me thinking…Sean is right–that dude DID have a foot fetish (sorry Audra–the guy was a freak)
No worries, Cody. It’s a fair criticism. I love the derailments, but I can see that if you were really into the (purported) subject matter, it’d be frustrating.
Either way, that’s just how they roll.
The reason megan fox exists is that her role is a staple of cinema and TV. They actually DID atempt to be “progressive” by haveing her know more about cars than the nerdy star, PLUS she was not gigleing like a 1960’s “ding-bat”. The writers didn’t do anything douchy or wrong… they jsut did what movies have almost always done. We expect it in movies. We wouldn’t go see the three stooges and think that Moe shouldn’t slap someone? We shouldn’t hold fantasy to the task of emulateing “real world” values or a "perfect world scenereo.
Plus the movie is fantasy… shouldn’t the whole thing be fantasy!!! In these types of movies (teen and sci-fi) , important girls are pretty and they are prizes for the young nerdy stars to aspire to. It a good moral lesson "being nerdy non douche will lead to a Megan Fox in your future. " This isn’t true… but it’s as true as giant transforming alien robots!
IT’s how it has always been. The one’s that aren’t like this… look like Riply. They’re what my grandma calls “handsome women”.
Here’s an idea… can we have a female character that is like riply that LOOKS like megan fox…That would make everyone happy! Because after all it’s fantasy.It’s movies. We want to look at pretty people. Celebrities are supposed to be better looking than me and my girlfriend.
And you gals like good looks too! I don’t know why some women get mad that Megan Fox ( and most stars) are so pretty. Men don’t gripe because “The Rock is too big and is an unrealistic body image for young men”… nope… we just watch the movies.
If Apollo and Anders had been played by Barcly from TNG and John Malcovitch ( Male equivalents to Sigourny Weaver in acting and looks) … you honestly probably wouldn’t have liked those characters very much, if at all. And you wouldn’t have bought them as love interests… or even heroes ( if written exactly like they were for the normal looking men that were cast). I mean Audra ( and the ladies that were ar the thing in LA back during the season premieres… they called in… i think it was Lady D but I am not sure) almost never mentions Micheal Truco in a podcast without mentioning that he is attractive. ( and that’s great… that’s why he works out!) It’s his job… and it’s healthy for the ladies ( and intersted men even ) to say as much. He ( and the tiny Brit ) is you guy’s Megan Fox!
We wouldn’t buy that Sam ( transformer… not Anders) had done all that over a girl that looks like Heather Matarazzo ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000525/ ) either. ( or would want to see that on a big screen or on HD). But, we would totaly see how he would have fought Megatron in hand to hand over Megan Fox!
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Re: Shirley Manson, I’d like to heal her with my special energy, IYKWIM.
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In the cartoons, when the Decepticons are genociding the female Autobots, do the writers use the word “kill,” or is it strictly “exterminate,” etc.?
[b]PSA: Sean is a proud hater of fairy princess time.
That is all. Carry on.[/b]
Laughing out Loud about the Disney Princess discussion.
Yeah, I’m the father of two girls. And they’re now almost 7 and almost 10. Now, they did have an interest in the disney princess stuff when they were between 4 and 5 years, old. And we’ve seen all those movies, and had the dress up stuff, and princess cups plates, dolls, etc. BUT, at around 6 years old they both had a totally backlash, and no longer have any interest in the disney prinesses.
Oh, I totally agree. Prince Charming has a foot fetish. That was pretty obsessive of him to go around and have EVERY girl in the Kingdom try on the glass slipper!!
Also, I think the fairy godmother was totally enabling his fetish. Why else would she make the slippers glass—in other words see-thru !!!