GWC Podcast #156: BSG 4.5 Daybreak, Part 1

Two points:

I thought Sean’s analysis about life before the Fall and after was interesting. However, I think for a number of the people we actually saw that their inner/emotional lives had improved since the Cylon attack. In particular I’m thinking about Lee, Bill and Laura. Each was either living a) the life they didn’t want, b) becoming rudderless because their job/mission was being pulled out from under them, c) saddled by the difficult loss of loved ones. In each case, they have become more comfortable with themselves and taken on their natural roles as leaders. It could also be argued that Caprica 6 and maybe even Starbuck have grown since their prior lives before the Fall. The only that hasn’t is Baltar, and its interesting that he is the only one to not volunteer (step across the line) for thei final mission.

The second point is that the fountain that Laura takes her cathartic bath in looks to be the same fountain where she met with the leader of the teacher’s union and saw Baltar and Caprica 6 together. On a practical level it could be the same location because that site of UBC has become such our basic view of Caprica. But on a more cinematic note its interesting that at the same fountain where she was able to grieve for her lost loved ones, she also chose to meet with the union rep to persuade him to hold off the strike. Remember that Adar wanted the strike to occur so he could crush the union despite the fact that a confrontation would had lead to the loss of life. I assume Laura would be reminded at how painful such a loss is at the fountain and thus worked that much harder to avoid the strike. Interestingly, disappointing Adar was her last official act prior to being sent off as the government representative to the decommissioning of Galacatica.

Listening to the podcast, comment on Doc in uniform. He reminded me of Hawkeye in fatigues, not fully dressed out. Didn’t notice if he had his rank insignia either.

Also, Baltar not crossing the line confirms Lee’s challenge could not be answered.

I apologize if I’m repetitive… but here goes (I took notes again, Aset! :))

Chuck, you were right about the explosion of negativity. I loved the episode (for many of the same reasons you said), so yeah. And I hope the letters, emails, calls don’t get too nasty.

In terms of the rules of capitalization, I pulled out my most recent MLA guide. Capitalization is only appropriate for directions when they are either being referred to as a region (The Global South, for example) or when they are in a position to be capitalized (as in the title of something, the start of a sentence.) I don’t know about other style guides but that’s what mine says… :slight_smile:

I don’t remember if you guys said this in so many words, but I agree that a) the flashbacks were awesome and b) that the function (or purpose, if you will) of the flashbacks is to further humanize our characters (who have been put through some very harsh dehumanization over the past 4 seasons).

I enjoyed the discussion about God(s) and questioning - I agree, as long as there are questions to ask there will be faith and belief.

When Roslin was in the fountain in the flashback, I also thought she just had really heavy eye makeup that was running. Whoops. Spouse thought it was blood. In terms of mourning and water, though, well there are a lot of different ways you could interpret it. I like to think of it as a symbolic cleansing (publicly), but I’m sure that it will come up again in the last 2 hours of the show, even if only tangentially.

I mentioned this on the call after the show on Friday, but before they said Roslin’s date was going to be Sean not-O’Hara, I was afraid that it was going to be Lee Adama. That would be too weird for words.

I loved the Lee/Baltar scene. Lee called Baltar out for what we all know was true about him, and then have Baltar himself admit it. That’s some self-knowledge that I’m not sure Baltar would have admitted to before The Hub (was that the ep where Roslin nearly killed him?). That said, I’m not sure we can write him off just yet, if the preview is anything to go by.

I agree that Caprica’s motivations for crossing the red line (no jumping, sadly :() are complex and multiple. However, one you guys didn’t mention is her recovery from the miscarriage. My first thought was: what does she have to stay for? She’s lost Liam, and it looks like she may have lost Tigh as well. She’s rejected Baltar. Besides the other six models, to whom she has never appeared particularly close, does she have anyone tying her to the RTF? Adding that on top of the other reasons you guys mentioned, I don’t think that Caprica’s character could have gone the other way.

Great podcast, it made a rainy Sunday much brighter :smiley:

A couple of things I’d like to mention.

First, the Roslin fountain scene. At first I thought it was running mascara as well. Which really kinda jarred me, it seemed to me like she was still in her robe & nightclothes, why would she be wearing eye makeup? So I kept looking trying to figure out what it was. It was definitely a clump of hair that just happened to be right there.

I also thought it was very surprising that Baltar actually admitted that he wouldn’t trust him either & essentially gave up the ruse.

I also thought that Lee with the bird had something to do with Zack’s death. I think it was probably after he found out & went & got ripp roaring drunk. the significance of the bird, I am still not sure of, but I also thought it was symbolic of Zack somehow. I do not think it was after the funeral because he was clearly nor dressed for a funeral.

I liked seeing these characters in the lives on Caprica, I’m just disappointed that this was obviously cut off right as it was ramping up to the meat of the story.

The only point in the podcast I disagree with was the analysis of the Adama flashback. I don’t see why Adama would use his experience as “the Commander of two Battlestars” as a reason for not doing the decommissioning ceremony. This felt more like he was being asked to sell something or be the big smiling face for something beneath him.

[ol]
[li]It turns out that the Doctor stopped the Cylons (using his sonic screwdriver) and rescues Hera before Galactica arrives. Hera, Baltar, and Six choose to travel with the Doctor in his TARDIS rather than stay on Galactica. [/li]

[li]Galactica jumps to the Colony, turns out everyone but Adama is a Cylon. After airlocking everyone, Adama proceeds to undergo a 90 minute breakdown consisting of smashing every mirror on the ship, crying, and accompanied by heavy binge drinking.[/li]

[li]In the last moments, all the humans and Cylons fall into the black hole. The black hole belches. End credits.[/li]

[li]Galactica is destroyed and Hera is rescued but the surviving humans and Cylons continue wandering, bitching, boozing, and eating green goo for eternity.[/li]

[li]When attempting to jump into the Cylon colony, Galactica crashes into our Earth killing all the dinosaurs.[/li]

[li]The higher power behind everything is revealed to be Dirk Benedick who is really pissed at not being approached to continue his role as Starbuck.[/li]

[li]In the last minute of the series, Admiral Adama is hit on the head by a piece of Galactica…He blacks out…Lieutenant Martin Castillo wakes up 2009 Miami next to his wife Lora. He begins telling her about his crazy dream…[/li]

[li]Cavil is captured by Scooby, Shaggy, Velma, Daphine, and Fred . When Adama rips off the mask, Cavil is revealed to be Billy![/li]

[li]In the final moments the action freezes, Captain Riker and Deanna Troi get up from their seats and leave the holo-deck. [/li]

[li]90 minutes of pure unadulterated Sci Fi battle porn. Nothing is resolved. In the last moments when all is about to be revealed, screen goes black…Sopranos style! End credits:)[/li][/ol]

Looks like Sean was right! I totally thought that idea was crazy. Boy, is my face red. :wink:

aac74, I think you misunderstood us- we were not confused about why Baltar would want to change his accent. It’s obvious his native accent is considered lower class or less desirable and also ties him to his father, of whom he ashamed. I was uncertain as to what real-life regional accent Balter’s father was using, and I didn’t want to just claim it was a particular English or Irish region without knowing for sure.

Re: “everyone has an accent” that I said in the 'cast - this is from the Oxford English Dictionary:
[i]
3. The mode of utterance peculiar to an individual, locality, or nation, as ‘he has a slight accent, a strong provincial accent, an indisputably Irish, Scotch, American, French or German accent.’ Without defining word: of a regional English accent.

  1. The way in which anything is said; pronunciation, utterance, tone, voice; sound, modulation or modification of the voice expressing feeling.[/i]

American newscasters, journalists, etc. tend to use a middle-American accent that’s been identified as closest to an Ohio regional accent. We consider it a more “neutral” accent, in part because it is very close to dictionary pronunciation. But this doesn’t mean that speaking that way is “without accent;” just ask a British citizen if American newscasters speak English with an accent. Accent isn’t defined as “different from newscasters or standard English.” It’s defined as the particular way people of a region speak; therefore, everyone has an accent.

Gah! Ok, I must comment on the baby-killing; I could accept it as some detached curiosity about babies, but never as a mercy killing. Likewise, the ‘care’ for Baltar’s father struck me as just another way to manipulate Baltar.

If Six were so ‘sensitive’ about the human condition, how could she not spare a thought for the baby’s mother? Where’s the mercy in that?

BTW, outstanding posts in response to this last podcast. Thanks to everyone for the thought-provoking opinions.

I was about to jump in and defend you… but I see you beat me to it, and quite eloquently.

It has nothing to do with ‘sounding different’ and everything to do with just sounding like something. If that makes any sense.

And why the civvies?

Somewhat similar to the concept of ‘diet’.
It’s just what you usually eat; not what you eat to lose weight.

  1. In the first ten minutes, Hera is saved, the Cavils are subdued, Roslyn recovers, and Earth is found. For the next 50 minutes, Hybrid Anders gives a long, revealing speech. And for the following hour, he takes questions from the characters, who are all assembled in the hangar bay. By the end of it, everything is all cleared up.

Here is a link to a video (not by me) from Friday’s Katee Sackhoff appearance at the Bagdad here in Portland. They kept it spoiler free, so don’t think twice about watching it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEla4UgUZns&feature=related

I thought the thing Bill was trying to get out of in the flashback might have something to do with his divorce, a final hearing or something. Hence the civvies. That’s just my impression.

Agreed on the question - he looked younger, too.

I don’t think that all of the flashbacks are in the same moment of “Before the Fall,” so I’m just going to sit back and wait for next week to show what that was about.

Wash, I also thought it might be something unrelated (directly) to his military career, particularly as we don’t see his interlocutor - the divorce idea is a good one.

  1. In the last minute of the series, Admiral Adama is hit on the head by a piece of Galactica…He blacks out…Lieutenant Martin Castillo wakes up 2009 Miami next to his wife Lora. He begins telling her about his crazy dream…

That was my idea in the “Last Word” thread! Love it anyway though.

When attempting to jump into the Cylon colony, Galactica crashes into our Earth killing all the dinosaurs.

A part of me really wants to see this.

wow!

I can’t wait to listen to the cast tomorrow morning!

The Penultimate Cast!

Squeee!

I love the hive mind… nice to have other people help you do your thinking for you. Anyway, here’s my contribution:

I think it does, too; that, or there’s some time-travel element or alternate universe involved. The Crew was skeptical (as I would have been, had I not heard of it), but the idea of jumping close to this “black hole” is not a stretch. Racetrack specifically says that it’s a naked singularity, a theoretical idea which I had been unfamiliar with until I read about them in SciAm a month or so ago. They don’t have event horizons, so it’s possible to be on top of one, like Racetrack was, without falling in.

Actually, like Solai, I don’t agree with this either… although it was my first thought. This scene (actually, all of the flashbacks) feels to me like it takes place maybe a couple years before the Fall… I think Adama’s being asked to do something else.

I’ve been troubling over this flying rat, and that this explanation really works for me, symbolically, and not only 'cause I like Gaiman.

I was gonna post on this thread specifically to mention this, but Dave got here first… Like Chuck, I caught it right away: when I was a kid, I wanted to join the Air Force cause I wanted to be an astronaut… my mom found me a bookmark with High Flight printed on it, that I used throughout my grammar/high school school years… makes me wish I still had it, now.

I really like this explanation for the flashbacks… I’ll be keeping this in mind as the finale plays out. But I’ve been thinking of the irony of this: Baltar’s survivalist, me-first instinct seems to be what is going to start the new Cycle… since it’s looking like Galactica and everybody else will be dead.

You know… at this point, I would almost welcome that.

The only that hasn’t is Baltar, and its interesting that he is the only one to not volunteer (step across the line) for thei final mission.

I’m not sure. With the revelation that Caprica’s seduction of Baltar was as much emotional as it was physical, it makes me wonder if Baltar couldn’t surprise everyone in the end. And with Lee making a point of his inability to serve someone or a cause other than himself, it does feel like a big setup.

  1. Galactica jumps to the designated “parking spot”. Faced with imminent destruction given the amount of firepower pointed at them, Kara seeks one last opportunity to find out what she is and reconnects Anders for questionning. Before a question can be asked, Anders spots the singularity. In that lucid moment, Anders seeks out that perfect shot, flashes up the FTL and dunks Galatica right down the black hole. Everyone is unimpressed, only Anders applauds. Yessss…