GWC Podcast #151: BSG 4.5 No Exit

In my opinion, the best bit of information gained from this episode is the revelation of a ‘Seven’ model.

From what we know of Kara, I think the likely-hood of her actually being a form of this seventh Cylon is very unlikely. First we know Daniel is a Male. Obviously Kara is Female (Unless Lee, Anders and Zak all share a big secret). The destruction of the Sevens and the manner in which it was done would leave very little time for anyone to manipulate the line in order to hide one of them in a different looking body (If any of the FF knew that Cavil was going to do this, I doubt they would have been tricked into the airlock to die by his hand).

So, if we are shown the Seventh model, I believe it will look exactly like the original Seven Cavil killed off. Also, I doubt that Cavil would have wanted to change one of the Sevens into what Kara is now. He hated the Sevens, so much in fact, he completely eradicated them from existence. He wouldn’t have wanted to teach the sevens a lesson (He only wanted to teach his makers and the humans a lesson).

My Thoughts on the Sevens:

We do know the Daniel series was artistic. I checked episode 202, Valley of Darkness. When Helo and Kara return to her hold Apartment, Helo asks her if she made the paintings decorating the room. She tells him she did. BUT, when she plays the Piano solo on her CD Player (?) he remarks ‘I know that isn’t you’. She replies, ‘No, that is my father’ (The person playing the piano).

I think Daniel is Kara’s Father. Due to the changes made my John Cavil, the Daniel line was destroyed. I don’t think the discussion between Cavil and Ellen about the Daniel’s can conclude that it is impossible that one could have escaped or been unaccounted for before the ‘boxing’. The discussion leads me to believe that a few Daniel’s were created before John Cavil sabotaged the mass production line and he believes he killed them all.

One thing we don’t know about is the biological relationship between Cylon parents and their children. If the children of cylons gain similar talents from their parents, that means that perhaps Kara gained her artistic talent from her father, Daniel.

On a side note: We do know Kara’s mother was in the military during the first Cylon war and had a drinking problem. She was also very critical of Kara. In ‘The Farm’ it is insinuated that Kara was abused as a child and she shouldn’t have children. We don’t know much of anything about Kara’s father.

Oh, come now, this old “…=1/SQRT(1-(A1/100)^2” argument again?

Just to make it clear I’m kidding: I’m kidding. That’s quite an explanation, with excellent contextual information. I won’t pretend to understand completely, but I like to imagine I followed it. Keep the posts coming; welcome to the Fleet.

So – and I know variables are involved – does the No Exit subluminal-travel explanation hold water? Or were the writers just fudging it all together, with a dollop of science talk?

Okay. I consider this a kind of Cavil/Daniel song:

Stroke 9’s Kick Some A$$.

It’s the chorus that gets me!

http://www.amazon.com/Kick-Some-Ass/dp/B000V64WRA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1234847065&sr=8-2

It’s all I can hear when I think of this ep! lol!

Kick Some Ass lyrics
How many people wanna kick some ass?

I used to be a nerd
Grew up in the suburbs
Nothing there ever went wrong
I made it up in this song

I talk about the hood
I say stuff like it’s all good
Tell people I’m down with all the cool kids downtown
When I’ve never even been there

How many people wanna kick some ass?
I do I do
And how many people sick of holding it back?
I am
Well I am too

So don’t lay another finger on her
She’s mine and I still want her
If you put your hands upon her
You’re a goner goner

And how many people sick of holding it back?
I am I am
And how many people wanna kick some ass?
I would if I could

But I’m really just a sensitive artist
Perpatrating like I am the hardest

So spin your cap around to the back
You think you rhyme but you can’t rap
Loosen that strap a little more
Till your axe hits the floor

Flip off your fans
Make em cheer
Try to look sincere
Anger today’s fashion
So sing another song about bashing someone’s head in

How many people wanna kick some ass?
I do I do
And how many people sick of holding it back?
I am
Well I am too

So don’t lay another finger on her
She’s mine and I still want her
If you put your hands upon her
You’re a goner goner

And how many people sick of holding it back?
I am I am
And how many people wanna kick some ass?
I would if I could

But I’m really just a sensitive artist
Perpatrating like I am the hardest
Acting like I’m not the smartest
I’m really just a sensitive artist

Awwwww Yeahhhh

So don’t lay another finger on her
She’s mine and I still want her
If you put your hands upon her
You’re a goner goner

And how many people sick of holding it back?
I am I am
And how many people wanna kick some ass?

I said how many people wanna kick some ass?
How many people wanna kick some ass?
Whatcha gonna do when your sick of holding it back?
I think I kick some ass
How many people wanna kick some ass?
I would if I could

But I’m really just a sensitive artist
Perpatrating like I am the hardest
Acting like I’m not the smartest
I’m really just a sensitive artist
Honest

OMGs that was frakking awesome.

I agree with you about this theory. So is it her ‘special destiny’ to act as a bridge for the FF cylons and Cavil cylons? Of the entire Cylon nation and the Humans?

hi all! this was an amazing episode and i want to recommend that you all read the television without pity review. it’s hilarious and puts things very well!

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/battlestar_galactica/no_exit_2.php

i have just a few things to add:

i agree - i think kara is daniel’s daughter, but my favorite part was the centurion gracefully leaning-in to help ellen out of the goo tub!

what is the significance of six & tigh’s baby seeming like he ‘just came alive tonight’? sam resurrecting? i think that’s too creepy, but just how she said it makes me wonder…

yeah - chief & boomer are totally going to get to be together. like i said before, i’ll like it if ANY of these people end at all happy!

dxf, yes the relativistic subluminal travel idea holds water, with one big caveat: you need an incredibly powerful and low-mass (and, of course, entirely fictional) source of energy to get to such high speeds due to your exponentially increasing mass. (There’s no point in bringing lots of fuel that will just weigh you down even more – point of diminishing returns arrives again).

Presumably the FF had such an energy source. I don’t know whether it’s Tylium (the fleet doesn’t use it to accelerate into relativistic velocities, so it wouldn’t have to be as incredible a fuel… of course, I don’t know the energy throughput of their FTL drives…).

I forgot the most obvious reason you can’t achieve light speed… it would require a literally infinite amount of energy. Oh, and the fact that by definition, traveling faster than light is time travel and the principle of causality would be violated… but that’s a little arcane. It’s a refrain in pop culture that Einstein’s equations don’t outlaw speed FASTER than light, just speed equal to that of light … but that’s because Einstein thought causality was so obvious, he didn’t need to incorporate it into his equations.

One set of books that uses relativistic time travel well is Orson Scott Card’s Ender series (the first few books, before they got boring.)

It’s interesting that RDM et al assumed the audience would understand the time-dilating effects of relativistic speeds… that might have been true for 1950s sci-fi fans, but we’ve all been so inundated with warp drives and hyperspaces that it really doesn’t come up much, on television anyway.

BTW, in case anyone paying attention thinks I’m just making my areas of expertise up, I’ve been somewhat of a professional student. I’ve studied Classics, Music (opera singing) and Chemistry (with required physics courses) at University… I’m graduating with my Chemistry B.Sc. in May, at the ripe age of 39.

David, I’ve really apprecaited your insight into the gobbledygook pseudoscience propped up in “No Exit”, and it doesn’t seem to me like you’re the one making things up here (hint: it’s the guy with long, flowing, beautiful hair, and its not Fabio).

Ultimately, I think this is one of the over arching messages of the show. You can’t wash your hands of the things that you have done. You will, ultimately, be held responsible for them.

I have about as much sympathy for Cavil as I do for any criminal in jail right now blaming their actions on their parents. Just because someone/something created you does not mean you are not responsible for the things that you do.

Is anyone “worried” that Boomer’s loyalties may not have actually switched? Remember throughout the episode, Cavil seems to find it important that she spend time with Ellen. This wouldn’t be Cavil trying to endear Ellen to her and gain her trust such that she leads them back to the fleet would it?

The Pollyanna in me wants to see Boomer and the Chief happy again too, but I’ve soaked in BSG darkness too long not to wonder if this couldn’t be a RDM twist in the making…

The Chicago Tribune interview addresses this rather ominously.

That’s a great post. The artistic thing made me think Kara right off the bat. it never dawned on me it might be Kara’s father.

My thoughts…since Cavil messed with the DNA, maybe he could make the 7 embryos female its only 1 chromosome; thus we get Kara
Flame away…

Where else can a conversation bounce from the physics of the FF ship to the biology of the cylon embryos!

I’d have to question a technology that can “download” into a flesh receptical but not have the ability to alter the characteristics of that receptical. With all the gene manipulation on our own horizon - I can’t see why in the Galactica universe Cavil couldn’t have made himself a true cyborg body. Unless only the FF have the knowledge and that’s why he’s so pissed off (in that case I think I’d be pissed too.)

Best. Summary. Evah. I want this on a t-shirt. Welcome to the Forum Jarathen!

I do appreciate everyone trying to work out the mechanics on relativistic subluminal travel, but I am reminded of a perfect moment from a Joss Whedon interview that addresses this conversation:
Interviewer: Joss, how fast can a Firefly go?
Joss: At the speed of plot
I am not saying the discussion of the mechanics is not without merit, I am simply observing that it may not be the point. RDM has been pretty clear that he had zero interest in re-creating Trek-like descriptions of how the ships work unless it supports the plot in some way.

Carry on, great discussions! Welcome to all new posters!

Along that same line, I don’t understand how the DanielisKara’sFather folks can reconcile that Cylon resurrection technology also applies to half-breeds.

Thanks, Solai! Everyone here really seems to treat everyone with the same respect and open-mindedness, and it’s great.

I can’t believe I typed “I pretty much just think,” though. That’s rough. But I do think that Cavil is your classic mad scientist kind of bad guy. And in a show that has really gotten out there, it’s nice to know that we’ve got a great moustache-twiddling villain we can understand.

I like this idea. There is something poetic about the idea that Cavil’s very sick psyche could corrupt the beauty of the original creation.

Then again maybe, part of the design that Ellen and the other FFs had, was to make their creation (these 8 models of human-cylons) experience a more “human” life, at each “resurrection” they would begin as babies or young children.

Succinct and clear. Thanks.

And welcome to the forum guydownunder.

So Tigh was inserted into the colonies shortly after the war, 40yr ago. By the time Bill Adama meets him on the merchant ship, Tigh is already messed up and an alcoholic. How many years had passed I wonder?

Welcome to the Forum Ice Tsar.

I agree. For now, everyone needs to take a breath on the Galactica.

Welcome to the forum Sitroom.