I was re-listening to the cast, and it occurred to me why I can’t abide with Gaeta and Zarek’s rebellion. Adama and Laura have trampled a bit on the civilian government’s rights (well it is arguable whether in the current situation if its possible for Laura to violate the government considering she constitutes much of it herself). However, they have not often to my mind severely violated many peoples civil rights. The only main examples are the workers and captain of the tillium ship a while back, Chief when he was negotiating on their behalf, and the recent imprisonment of Zarek. All three are serious crimes, however, none reach the level of a capital offense given the circumstances, and even more importantly has the situation become grim enough to take innocent lives. The only justifiable reason would be if Gaeta and Zarek think the fleet is in imminent danger under the current situation. It would seem to be difficult to make the case that the fleet is in any more of a precarious situation (due to Adama’s and Roslin’s leadership) than it has been all along. This leads me to conclude that both Zarek’s and Gaeta’s justifications are personal, and therefore given their willingness to sacrifice so many lives for either a quest for power or a personal vendetta against Cylons makes it difficult to see any thing positive out of their mutiny.
Zarek apologists should take heed from the comments of one “DrEmilioLizardo” on io9.com:
“He would rather be in charge of the last 5 humans than second in command amongst 40,000.”
A knee-jerk negative reaction to authority, any authority – Hi Sean! (ahem) – because if its faults has, historically, led many to ally with a much worse power. Zarek may still be an idealist at heart, but his ruthlessness has taken precedence.
It was brought up that Adama is in charge because earned it. This is true from the point of view that he is the commander of a Battlestar, but Adama is in command because he was the highest ranknig member of the military to survive the attack on the colonies. After Cain was killed Rosilen appointed him Admiral because she wanted to make sure that if they ran in to anymore mebers of the Colonial Fleet he would be the Ranking officer.
if they get the t-shirt and wear them to some convention, that’d be my dream come true.
I agree with Phil. On the cast, Chuck (or Sean) said that the only reason Adama “illegally” arrested Zarek was that Adama wanted the Tilium ship. Uh… yeah he wanted the ship! The fleet’s entire existence depends on it! This wasn’t about the fleet not falling in line with Adama’s fiat, it was about a legitimate need for that ship. And if Zarek knew where it was and wasn’t sharing, I think Bill was not out of line there.
Using the marines to update the other ships’ FTL drives is a different story; however, it’s not as though they can only upgrade some of the ships and still stay together.
BTW, Jarathen, welcome to show, welcome to the forums, and GREAT SIGGY!
I may have missed it, but Hot Dog’s zinger to Starbuck has gone largely unremarked-upon: “You’ve frakked half the fleet, and what do you have to show for it?”
What a great line. Between that and the look on Olmos-the-Younger’s face, that little sequence did so much for the character and the situation. I hope li’l Nikki isn’t frakked if Hotdog swoops in, saves the day, and has to spend some time on the basestar. Chief will step up.
It’s nice to see Chief back in a leadership role.
After last week, more than ever, it’s so nice to have a resource like the GWC podcast and forum. I’ve never been this worked up about a TV cliffhanger.
Now imagine if Chief was in the room when he said that.
At least she doesn’t have the rash to show for it. Apparently she is better about protection.
Doesn’t he know that very Hot Dog should come with a casing?
I have to agree with this. Ty and Adamma (forgive me, I can say their names but I can’t spell them, heck, I can hardly spell my own name) are high value targets and it is clear that Geata wants them alive. The marines aren’t going to go in with frag grenades in that situation.
Let’s say that it was a frag grenade. If anyone was going to have a better chance to survive the blast it would have been Ty - he was behind cover as Adamma was standing in the open.
Amen!
I would add that some sort of big crises is inevitable after Earth and Roslin’s de facto abdication. That created the vacuum that Zarek’s rushing into, guns ablazing. None of that excuses his actions. He’s now responsible for all the death and destruction he’s unleashed, when he could have tried to help somehow, which, as he is the VP, would be his actual responsibility.
Hopefully, I’m not mixing up podcast 148 and 149, but I think on this one, Chuck, you made a comment that Gaeta doesn’t have any leadership training (or something to that effect). I’m not sure I can believe that. If he’s a bridge officer on a Battlestar, I gotta think he’s been given some level of command training. He might be not be a natural leader personality, but in Colonial-fleet officers school or whatever, he must have been taught some command skills. I don’t see him rising to a rank of Lieutenant without becoming comfortable to give and receive orders.
But I’m probably missing your point anyway, Chuck. I guess you gotta be a natural, charismatic leader to take on something so significant as command of the ONLY batttlestar leading the remains of humanity. And for that, he sure ain’t suited for the job.
Nope, Thot, you’re totally getting my point. Commanding a vessel and working on the bridge – IMHO, at least – require entirely different levels of leadership skill. Certainly they’re related. But the idea of, say, replacing the commander of a Nimitz-class nuclear carrier with the person that steers the ship (or handles communications) seems like a shaky proposition at best.
(Maybe some of the GWCers who’ve seen naval service could comment on this.)
This ties into a discussion in #149 where Sean and I disagreed a little bit on the Chief’s leadership skill specifics. In hindsight, though, I disagree with Sean less than I thought at the time. I still think the Chief couldn’t have successfully led the rebellion, but I do agree that he’s holding many of the cards that Gaeta isn’t – like the loyalty of those who work for him, those who work with him, and even those who work above him. (Oh yeah, and he’s a cylon. But that wasn’t the point of our discussion.)
Thanks for the reply Chuck. And keep that discussion of leadership and command coming. I find that a fascinating aspect of BSG and other shows.
In fact, now that I think about, you and Sean and Audra have touched on the leadership question in almost every arc, and that’s awesome!
I’m in the midst of listen to 149 now, and happen to be at the Tyrol discussion as we speak. Great stuff.
Command and leadership are interesting phenomenons. I find that in my life, I have to use aspects of leadership and command because my job and my role as parent sometimes requires it. And (like Gaeta’s officers school training) I know how to do it. But that doesn’t mean I’m a natural leader, and I would never been considered the idea guy to be put in command of large groups of people.
OK guys…I think I am going to need a full bottle of real Scotch on Friday. I just saw this off Bear McCreary’s blog.
Believe it or not, The Oath is actually smaller and less action-packed than next week’s Blood on the Scales.
Lords of Kobol give me strength. I’m not sure I can take that!
Gods, I know what you mean. I’m shaking from the stress of the last 3 episodes. Holy Frakking Cow, what a ride!
All I can say is…
Wheeeeeee!
Is it 10 o’clock yet?
I know about how the slection of commander Officer of a US carrier. they had to be first a pilot of some sort, normally planes but some times helos. people that are Rector or Engineering types will not command a ship they take different routes. small boats the co’s work up from divison officers to department heads to XO and CO. before becoming XO and CO they is a school that they must attend. My uncle is one of the few that that started out as a rector officer and make it to CO, but that was of a SUB. I don’t know they rules as they are more different than most of the navy. most have two crews a Blue and Gold crew. they take turns at sea.
I wholeheartedly agree with these two statements.
For the Galactica and the remments of humanity, it is a time of war and a desperate fight for survival, not only of these individual lives, but of all of humanity. How did Lee say it? “We’re not a civilization, we’re a gang and we’re on the run.”
Democracy is a fine ideal stemming from our best instincts, but there are moments in history, that it is a luxury, and that, I believe, is the case with the BSG world at this moment in their history. Yes, it is noble to be willing to die for the ideal of democracy, but what good is a democratic system if the entire species is dead?
Live first, make many babies next.
I stand with the Bill Adama and Roslin, despite their flaws and mistakes.