GWC Podcast #147

This week we take in BSG’s A Disquiet Follows My Soul and are joined by the irreplacable Nicki Clyne. Highlights: we wonder why Tigh seems so comfortable with pregnant-Six having just seen Ellen, explore the long-term effects of discovering the human nature of Callie’s baby, note that we finally saw Gaeta’s meeting from the end of the webisodes, discuss possible motives for Gaeta’s new motivation and direction, express concern that Adamlin may have created the current nasty situation in the fleet by ruling with an iron fist while paying lip service to the representative government, weigh the value of democracy vs. fleet survival (as colored by last week’s talk with Richard Hatch and his take on Zarek and Cain), cite some examples of how the masses in the fleet aren’t so powerless after all, hear Ms. Clyne’s insights into Callie (i.e. motherhood, losing herself, and seeing Tyrol with Tori) and acting, and take listener calls about last week’s premiere. Check our forum at http://www.galacticawatercooler.com (click the forum tab) for new information about the 1st Annual GWC National Meetup March 20-22 including hotel selection and BSG finale group-watch details!

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Woot! Off to listen!

Hmmm…not showing up in iTunes yet. I’ll be downloading directly!

Excellent 'cast - as always.

Caused me to have this thought (and, if you stayed away from the skiffy “You Will Know The Troof” info, probably you should not read on):

The Adama faction is risking a good deal to acquire the Cylon’s FTL technology - in order to triple the amount of space The Fleet can cover in its search for a new “home”.

All “troof” observers will remember the segment, when Bill Adama noticed the jagged break in the wall of his quarters. While there was some speculation about what might be its cause, it seems pretty clear to me (uh - oh) that it is an early sign the Galactica is breaking up.

I wonder whether we are going to learn that either the ship is in such bad shape that it cannot tolerate Cylon jumps OR that the Cylon FTL technology, when put to use, damages Galactica, given its battle worn state. And if so goes Galactica, so ge the other ships in The Fleet? If so, any such deal with the Cylons will turn out to be a poor one. With ramifications. And only 8 episodes left.

By the way, by my count we now have 16 planets that are or were capable of sustaining human life that have/had no such life on them and zero such planets that do. The former are:

  1. The 12 Colonial planets (I know, I know, there may be survivors - but you get the idea);

  2. Kobol;

  3. New Caprica;

  4. The Algae Planet; and

  5. Cylon Earth.

Not a particularly good record for humanoid life forms.

I am in the midst of listening. My only request is if the Crew could please find some transition music between the interview and the main program. If there isn’t anything in the arsenal of the Crew, I can see what we can put together in Las Vegas.

I jsut gotta say I think you guys are wrong in the arresting of zarek thing.
I didnt see it as them arresting zarek for the order about the cylons on ships thing, but I saw it as more that the order zarek gave resulted in a vital ship defecting from the fleet, which is unacceptable.

Roslin, and by default the Roslin administration, said that Adama was in charge of all military decisions. Unless that was codified in Colonial law, couldn’t Zarek come in and, under the Zarek administration, say that his government would operate differently? Just like Obama closing down Gitmo, or re-listing the wolves as a protected species???

FWIW, I think this whole issue is a lot more complex than it seems. Some interesting thots:

  1. Zarek doesn’t give any orders over the wireless – he just advises the captain of the tyllium ship that he ought to take whatever actions he thinks he needs to in order to protect himself and his people.

  2. Though this issue is heavily obfuscated (by Adama and Roslin, mostly!), I think a good argument could be made that the quorum’s action created law – which would mean that the tyllium ship captain’s refusal to allow cylon crews aboard would be legal (if still a bad idea).

  3. While we might agree that the fleet’s need for fuel could justify Adama’s actions against the tyllium ship and Zarek in a practical sense, I can’t see any solid argument for the existence of any instrument that provides Adama the legal authority to take these actions.

Can you imagine, for example, a general in the U.S. Army saying “I think since terrorism affects our ability to fight, that makes all decisions regarding the war on terror military decisions. In fact, anything critical – in my mind – to the survival of the U.S. is a ‘military decision.’ As head of the military I therefore replace the president in terms of making these decisions.” As far as I can tell, that’s pretty much the argument Adama’s making.

More importantly it just seems to me that it’s the responsibility of people in leadership roles – like Adama and Roslin – to work with the government, the people, and everyone involved to work within the system. Instead we see them ignoring the people in favor of their own personal situations and needs – which are certainly quite real – then simply issuing orders when they finally see everything fly apart.

Regardless of whom you blame – the tyllium ship captain, Tom Zarek, Adamlin, mob mentality, Baltar – one thing’s certain: this is bad for everyone. If the Dee character had to die as the price we pay for Earth, imagine what this reconing is going to cost.

Blood on the Scales, indeed.

No matter how dark the episode, leave it to Doc Cottle to breathe in a little levity. The scene with the celebratory cigarette was priceless.

downloading show now…lots of funny one liners in this ep i thought…so is adama getting sick? can he be the dying leader? funny side note just got home from a recording session and the engineer has a day job working on adr/looping/foley mixing for bsg!! i kept bugging him about working on the show…agggghhh he wouldnt tell me anything that happens thank god! he’s getting the last final 2 eps next week to work on…he said he’s worked alot with the “hotties” 6, boomer, and starbuck…crazy man!!

I thought anthropomorphise was funny. And yes, I am proud of you Sean! I blame fatigue.

I’m listening to the podcast right now and enjoying it but I disagree with you guys about it being on Geata and Zarek’s side. I don’t trust either one of them, they’ve never shown good judgement in the 4+ seasons of the show. Zarek will do anything to gain power and Geata has terrible judgement of people/cylons. Plus, they do have enemies after them and the non milatary ships need the milatary to protect them. If they let the Qorum run everything, I truly believe they wouldn’t have survived so long. Plus, remember that the Crapica thing was Baltar and Zarek’s(the Qorom’s) idea and how well did that turn out?
For me, it comes down to that I trust Adama and Roslin(when she gets over this) to actually get the fleet somewhere and not all dead.
I think the only way the humans are going to survive is with help from the cylons. They need to get over thinking of these cylons as the enemy, remember they no longer have a resurection ship and the other cylons are now after them.

On the bleakness:

In an interview with someone, I can’t remember who, RDM said that what really makes the happy moments in BSG some of the best times is all of the darkness that surrounds them. That the creative team doesn’t like to use the term ‘dark’ because it’s kind of vague and they feel that through showing the bad times the good times are so much better. It makes them like candles in a pitch black room, a flashlight is brighter but if you have never seen one then the candle is the brightest thing around.

There’s no denying it:
Gaeta’s gone Bad.

Well, Half-Bad.

Ah, there’s nothing like a sunday morning coffee spit take. That is teh awesomeest, Herr Gun.

Just finished the podcast…

On John Adams vs. Thomas Jefferson. Since I am of the camp that John Adams often gets and undeserved bum rap and Thomas Jefferson is undeservedly loved, some things about the two men.

Remember that John Adams watched the masses tar and feather (not a pleasant experience) British officials for attempting to do their job. Furthermore he watched a mob goad and prod and threaten a group of British soldiers to the point where they fired into the crowd. Adams had first hand experience with the danger of the masses. Finally while Adams firmly feared the decision of the ‘mob’, he was strong believer in the rule of law (although in he did not always make good decisions)…so I would not put him in the Adama camp.

Jefferson on the hand often wrote about how good the common man was, but did not seem to have a problem with limited the decision making ability of the common man. His main objections to the Constitution had nothing to do with the way leaders were chosen, but with the amount of power given to a central government. Furthermore Jefferson was pretty two-faced. He anonymously criticized the Washington Administration in the press while being Washington’s Secretary of State and hired men to print hatchet jobs of John Adams while not only being Adams’ vice-president but while also showing a friendly face to Adams. In many ways I think the closest parallel to Jefferson on BSG may very well be Baltar.

The truer champion of the common man in early U.S. history is Andrew Jackson, who truly believed that the government should be doing what the majority of the people wanted (with some exceptions). Zarek is probably the most like Jackson.

About Cain. I phoned in on this, but now that I’m home I would like to post as well. The very fact that Cain encourages/allows the rape of the six is proof that Cain understands that the six is a thinking/feeling being and not a machine. The purpose of the rape is to cause pain, distress, and break the will of the six. You only cause pain, distress and try to break the will of things you feel capable of feeling pain, distress, and having a will to break. There is no way, imho, to argue that Cain’s decision was somehow mitigated by the idea that she might have thought the six was just a machine.

About the harbringer (sp?) of death. Perhaps Kara was th harbringer of death for earth. That still does not answer many of the question brought up on the podcast but it offers a brighter note for both Kara and the fleets futures.

Damn. That’s an outstanding point. I would also add that if it “Looks and Feels Human” as the first season preamble stated, does it really matter whether or not you’re raping a machine? If raping a Cylon gives you all the same sensations as raping a Human, if you still get to exercise all that nastiness and cruelty, can you really excuse yourself by saying it’s just a machine? You’ve still let yourself go there, still taken pleasure in a violent act, and so probably messed yourself up more than your victim, in many ways. At the very least, you’re less able to interact properly with other Humans, because they “Look and Feel” just like the Cylon you’ve been abusing. So whether the Cylon is a programmed thing or a feeling being, doesn’t it matter more what’s in your heart than what’s in the toaster’s?

I loved the concise history of Argentina: sliding up and down the “democracy” (under caudillo) and military dictatorship spectrum. And I hadn’t thought of it in terms of BSG, but I really think the comparison to Peron is apt, particularly to later Peron (not the Evita version, but particularly the 1970s version).

I love the literary studies perspective (I may do it in another language, but it’s still literary studies!), so that was awesome.

Oh, and Tommy loves Sally. Just saying ;), since Virginia is for lovers and all that jazz.

There was an interesting piece on Jackson’s legacy to presidential politics in the US in the New Yorker in the past few months, basically arguing that the anti-intellectualism of American politics can be traced back to him.

OMGs! Nicki Clyne with the South Park reference at 14 min, 46 sec in made me wanna climb into my iPod and hug her.
Sweet.

Was never a Callie lover, but I’m definitely all for Nicki. :o)