And as I reached the length limit (:eek:), here’s the end of what I wrote above:
Consider the way that prominent women are treated in the media, and you might find similar treatment.Culturally, there is an expectation that women be “feminine,” but they are criticized in the press for being “too feminine”. However, if they are too “masculine,” i.e., taking charge, a good leader, etc, they are criticized for that as well (ball-buster?)
Jumping in late to the discussion (and it’s only Tuesday – frak!)…
My earliest memory of “Star Wars” in the theatrical first-run – I was five years old (and Audra’s all “I wasn’t even born”… grumble, grumble… <G>) – was the little “mouse robot” that Chewbacca roars at and scares away in the Death Star corridors. I loved that scene when my Mom and Dad took me to see it in the theater. My grandmother took me back the next week cuz I knew I just had to see it again, and I told her I wanted to see this scene. She said to make sure I woke her up when it was coming – she was going to turn off her hearing aid and take a nap. (Can you imagine!) Anyway, I did wake her up and she saw it! 
It’s funny the things that impress kids…!
I do wish the Biggs on Tatooine material had been put back into the Special Edition, because the scene that was restored then lacks very much emotional weight. I really dislike the addition of Jabba, because it destroys the “reveal” of the Falcon when Luke et al. see it for the first time; and the manipulation of Harrison Ford over Jabba’s tail doesn’t quite work. Still, if you’re going to have it in there, it’s all right. Although did Jabba really gain that much weight in what, the three years in between Eps IV and VI? When he was still mobile 20 years earlier in Ep I? C’mon!
I hear you. Jeez - folks are already posting just 2 hours after it’s released. It takes me longer than that to realize I haven’t checked for anything new for a while!
I liked that too! The think I remember most about seeing A New Hope during it’s original release (yes, I am that old!) is standing in line with my family waiting to get in the theater. It was the first time the line had ever been out the theater door that I could remember (and down the street and around the corner).
Totally agree with you! It wasn’t bad content and it did fit. It just wasn’t what I remembered and that kinda sucked a litte bit!
Actually, now that I think about it, she wasn’t very thankful because Darth Vader let them go. It wasn’t so much of rescue, but a set up by Vader and Tarkin to track the Millennium Falcon to the Rebel base. I don’t think she ever thought they’d succeed in the rescue while it was happening.
Thank you for reminding me how much I loved that scene as a child. That too was the most impressionable scene on at my first viewing. Now I’ve seen the movie so many times I’m like “eh, that cute…” The great thing about it is that there are also a number of other poignant moments that I can now appreciate 31 years older…
Yeah, and Leia even says that, but when did it switch from being a rescue to a set-up? I mean, lots of stormtroopers get shot (granted, the Empire seems to treat them as disposable) and everyone goes to a lot of trouble (it seems) to catch a group of rebel scum that they are planning on letting go anyway…
Or maybe the 'troopers who went aboard the Falcon as soon as the ship got caught installed tracking equipment as a back-up? Maybe that is Imperial standard operating procedure?
Shout-out to all other lovers o’ the mouse robot!
I thought it was when Vader informs Tarkin that he senses Obi-Wan’s presence and then says that “She may still be of some use to us…”
I’d bet only a few would know of the tracking device, because they had to put on a good show and the Storm Troopers had to really be trying to stop their escape so that Leia wouldn’t suspect that they’d been let go and not lead them to the Rebel base. Vader and Tarkin either didn’t know that they had the plans to the Death Star with them, or were just over confident, and Leia took the gamble that the rebellion could find a weakness before the DS destroyed the base.
On a related note, Vader tells Tarkin about Obi-Wan: “Escape is not his plan. I must face him alone.” What did Vader think Obi-Wan’s plan was???
I think we also do it to the men. We want them strong but vulnerable. The woman are just changing the “rules” a bit faster than then men.
I think he knew he would never leave the Death Star alive. He thought shutting the tractor beam down was, one way or the other, a suicide mission, as Han called it. Ben may not have known he was going to have to face dow Vader, but his words to Luke before leaving the command center is effectively his “goodbye,” and he knows it (though Luke doesn’t). As Audra said, Ben is giving himself up willingly so Luke et al. can live, and maybe that was his plan all along. “There are other ways than fighting…”
Good point. Now that I think about it, though, do you think that Ben can sense Vader just as strongly as Vader does Ben? I’d bet Ben knew a confrontation with Vader was coming…
I think Ben’s plan was to keep Vader busy so that Luke and company could get away. His job was to protect and teach Luke and he finished that by helping him get off the ship.
I think it is more than likely Ben thought it a real possibility, but I don’t remember any line equivalent to Vader’s “I sense… a presence I’ve not felt since…” But, no, it’s no stretch to think Ben thought he might have to face Vader, even if he didn’t know for certain – after all, as another Jedi master teaches us, “Always in motion, the future is…”
I agree with what you’re saying here - about the emotional weight of the cut scene, and having issues with Jabba. The manipulation doesn’t work in my mind, plus the dialogue is so obviously conveying the same information that is conveyed in the Greedo sequence.
Obi-Wan’s Plan may have been as nebulous as the Cylonz plan 
Oh, well, that makes up for it. No problem then.
Not trying to resurrect the “high-maintenance?” dead horse here, but:
Luke is whiny, naive, and impetuous.
Han is jaded, cocky, and irresponsible.
Leia is rude, abrasive, and perhaps spoiled.
Still, all these weaknesses are only reflections of their strengths. Even some of C3PO’s most annoying traits can be seen as an extension of his just wanting to help, as the Reverend Sean pointed out. All three of our heroes are also loyal, courageous, honorable, spirited, and in possession of a strong sense of right and wrong (sometimes, as in Han’s case, despite himself).
It’s easy to pick on them because people who are driven by a purpose and end up in dramatic situations like they do often have their whole personalities exposed, for better or for worse. Leia, like many commanding men and women before her, can sometimes be pushy and thoughtless; but she’s doing her best the way she knows how, and she gets the job done. The fact that she doesn’t always get it done perfectly (or the way one of us would) just makes her more human.
Same for those other two guys. The play of weaknesses and strengths is what makes them good characters, entertaining to watch and interesting to mull over afterwards. Kinda like some folks on a little show I watch called Battlestar Galactica.
[/soapbox]
Poor Chewie doesn’t even get a medal at the end of “A New Hope.” Oh well, I guess when you are a wookie you don’t need a piece of metal telling you how awesome you are.
Edit: I love that picture in your signature Glimfeather!
I wish I had one of those cool emoticons illustrating a round of applause…
A little help?
For what it is worth, in Tibetan Buddhism, when a enlightened master die their bodies are so pure that they vanish.
I completely agree with that assessment.
As for the rescuing scene, I think Leia is pretty anti-damsel and badass. Sure, she didn’t try to break herself out, but that’s realism, not damseling. What realistic chance did she have of making it off the Death Star by herself?
I only made that point in response to the claim that she wasn’t just sitting around, waiting to be rescued. Even if she didn’t expect to be rescued, it’s not like she was doing anything else. Not acting like a “damsel in distress” didn’t change the fact that that’s exacTly what she was.
I’d argue that without Obi-Wan’s efforts to shut down the shields and perhaps even more importantly, his presence onboard distracting and occupying Vader, nobody would’ve made it off the Death Star.
I can see that.
When she is rescued, compare her reaction to that of Princess Fiona in Shrek, a movie that uses fairytale cliches and then works to subvert them. Fiona acts grateful because she’s trying desperately to cling to the damsel cliche, even when Shrek’s rescue attempt turns out to be…unorthodox. Leia reacts to Han and Luke’s ill-planned rescue attempt in the way a princess shouldn’t react but in the way a person probably would: with the type of response Fiona would have had to Shrek’s (much more successful) rescue if she’d been acting like herself and not the way she thought a damsel should act. I suppose Leia could have been more polite, but I don’t know that I’d feel like being all that polite if two random guys in stormtrooper uniforms pulled me into a firefight with no way out.
I still say the slight chance of escape was better than further mind-probing and eventual execution. But that’s just me. 
So, I can see where Chuck and Sean were going with the high-maintenance comment if they were using a broader definition of high-maintenance than what’s usually implied when that term refers to a woman, but I agree with Leah that because of that specific, negative connotation, it’s important to clearly define exactly what the term means in this instance. Anywho, I thoroughly enjoyed the 'cast; you guys always find something that makes me look at a good story–even a story I’ve watched a dozen times before–a little bit differently.
Couldn’t agree more. In fact, until I really started to consider this aspect of the movie, I never really thought about how much I really disliked Leia in ANH. I attribute that more to Lucas’ inability to realistically write a female character without making her a caricature and (dare I say it again) a “raging bitca”. :rolleyes: Truth be told, I didn’t have the same opinion of her in the other movies. Her character grew a lot in future installments and in almost every way for the better.
So do not many masters reach enlightenment then?