it is great story telling, but high maintenance relationship makes for great story telling.
I mean if Athena and Helo are just happy couple all the time, then of course they don’t get much screen time together anymore.
All the more reason I didn’t want to start one.
all the “hammer” talk around here notwithstanding, you’ve hit the nail on the head.
That sounds really painful in that metaphor. :eek:
but you also need to consider that, as a senator, she’s been in the political arena, accustomed to dealing with Popetine and his henchman. she’s also enjoyed the relative immunity and respect that being a member of the Imperial Senate has, until recently, brought
True enough. I mentioned the same thing before I read your post. GMTA.
ineptly
Better than not at all.
I don’t see that
Maybe not. Perhaps I confused that with derision at the height of her savior. :rolleyes:
yes, they get her out of her cell and into a firefight with no escape route. Han himself doesn’t even believe in the plan, and I don’t think I’m the only one who thinks his “I had everything under control until you led us down here” is a crock of sh*t. he’s no picnic either, ungratefully sarcastic when her quick thinking got them out of the line of fire.
I think the metaphor you’re looking for there is “out of the frying pan…” 
and if Luke had just been as quick a thinker as his sibling, called 3PO right away, there’d have been no problem (and, of course, no drama)
And maybe if his sibling didn’t get herself caught in the first place, no one would have any of these problems…
okay, I’ll (sort of) give you that. but at the same time, it’s part of what makes her the anti-damsel-in-distress and, I’d argue, far more appealing than the “typical” female character. Solai mentioned some time ago (I’m too lazy to find it right now) that in making Star Wars, GL wanted to “give heroes to a generation that had none” (or something like that). this is never more true than with Leia. she takes charge, she doesn’t take any craaaap, and she calls an inept rescue like she sees it.
What part of sitting in a cell, awaiting execution, represents “ant-damsel-in-distress”? Are heroes in the new generation supposed to be rude and discourteous to those who try to help them? Compare her to Amidala. There is a strong, independent woman who can stand up to adversity and still not be mean to her friends and allies. I’ll admit that Leia was of a different era, when strong women (at least on TV and in movies) basically had to be overly forceful to be taken seriously, but why does she have to be rude?
really? a “raging bitca”? I’ll pretend I didn’t hear that, Poofy
You didn’t. :rolleyes:
They do if they’re secretly brother and sister. :eek:
Are you saying that Vader invented the Cylons?
If you can attach machines to flesh, why not the other way around? :rolleyes:
So does Vader have a glowing spine, too?
If Vader’s spine glows but no one can see it through his suit, was it really love?
What? Does it have to be love to get the spine glowing?
Then we can be certain the Cylons were invented by a woman. 
I think the key to the confusion is the term high maintenance. That term to woman is very negative. Leia may have been rude, but if no one was going to help her she was going to help herself and those with her. She just lost her world and knew that if she did not complete her mission more would die. She took command when those around her could not, would this be an issue if she was a man?
Han was not helpless he liked Leia’s “spunk”. He almost left several times but came back by his own choice.
If this was a man we were talking about, purposely jumping into a garbage chute without knowing what’s at the other end would be just as stupid. It’s Gilliganesque. She had no plan any better than Han, Luke, or Chewie did.
Han was not helpless he liked Leia’s “spunk”. He almost left several times but came back by his own choice.
Han came back because, in the words of Richard Gere, he’s “got nowhere else to go!” Having the Empire on his tail limits his options severely. He either joined the rebellion or lived a life on the run. At least the rebels wouldn’t turn him in for the bounty, something he’d have to worry about with pretty much anyone else he met.
I think a better comparison to Leia here isn’t Gilligan, but Indiana Jones…
So Han Solo is the high-maintenance one…
Surviving by dumb luck and a modicum of skill? Yeah, I can see that.
Does it have to be one or the other? I think it’s clear that they’re both high-maintenance. It’s probably the reason that they’re so clearly meant for each other. You know, after the unfortunate incest. :eek:
Hear hear!
Isn’t that exacTly what she was? She was just sitting in her cell, not trying to break out, not poised to take a Stormtrooper’s weapon and fight her way out. She just sat there, awaiting execution, until two men and a Wookiee rescued her. And then she didn’t even have the decency to thank them! :mad:
She did give them big Sorry-Barb medals and hold a ceremony in their honor…
No, Han and Leia are very much alike and that is why they clash so much in the 4 and 5.
Going into a group of well armed storm troupers or jumping into somewhere unknown. MMMMM I take the unknown. It did work.
I don’t think Leia is high-maintenance in the way the term is usually applied to women, ie the Urban Dictionary definition: “Requiring a lot of attention. When describing a person, high-maintenance usually means that the individual is emotionally needy or prone to over-dramatizing a situation to gain attention…A person who has expensive taste (re. clothing, restaurants, etc.)…” This kind of high-maintenance, to me, is a synonym for “clingy” and “materialistic,” and neither of those words are accurate descriptors of Leia.
I think a better analogy would be the sort of high-maintenance being married to a politician would entail. Even though a presidential candidate’s spouse may not personally have a strong interest in politics, for example, he or she is still expected to campaign, share political views in interviews, maintain a presidential persona, etc. Since Leia is a rebel spy and leader, she expects those who are personally associated with her to join the fight, too, the same way the politician expects his or her spouse to join in political contests.
As for the rescuing scene, I think Leia is pretty anti-damsel and badass. Sure, she didn’t try to break herself out, but that’s realism, not damseling. What realistic chance did she have of making it off the Death Star by herself? I’d argue that without Obi-Wan’s efforts to shut down the shields and perhaps even more importantly, his presence onboard distracting and occupying Vader, nobody would’ve made it off the Death Star. When she is rescued, compare her reaction to that of Princess Fiona in Shrek, a movie that uses fairytale cliches and then works to subvert them. Fiona acts grateful because she’s trying desperately to cling to the damsel cliche, even when Shrek’s rescue attempt turns out to be…unorthodox. Leia reacts to Han and Luke’s ill-planned rescue attempt in the way a princess shouldn’t react but in the way a person probably would: with the type of response Fiona would have had to Shrek’s (much more successful) rescue if she’d been acting like herself and not the way she thought a damsel should act. I suppose Leia could have been more polite, but I don’t know that I’d feel like being all that polite if two random guys in stormtrooper uniforms pulled me into a firefight with no way out.
So, I can see where Chuck and Sean were going with the high-maintenance comment if they were using a broader definition of high-maintenance than what’s usually implied when that term refers to a woman, but I agree with Leah that because of that specific, negative connotation, it’s important to clearly define exactly what the term means in this instance. Anywho, I thoroughly enjoyed the 'cast; you guys always find something that makes me look at a good story–even a story I’ve watched a dozen times before–a little bit differently.
Because what you all are identifying as “high maintenance” is in reality a woman being strong and assertive. I know people already addressed some of this but: How is it stupid to confront Vader when it’s pretty clear that she expects no rescue? I don’t think she was expecting to be rescued, in her interactions prior to Luke’s appearance in the cell block she never said anything to the fact that she expected that. How can she be grateful when her “rescuers” are obviously inept and unable to think of a plan and rather get through situations with dumb luck?
And raging bitca? For shame, Poofy, for shame.
Word, Solai.
Excellent point, I agree.
She can’t have known that going into the mission. And then we can get into the discussion about ends and means… I do think that, in order to destroy the Empire she would consider the destruction of her homeworld as a justifiable loss, though emotionally it might not register.
But unlike the bachelor who meets a woman with whom he’ll finally settle down, Leia pretty much maneuvered Han into being part of her rebellion because he had no other choice. It was bad enough that Jabba was after him, but the Empire as well? After escaping from the Death Star, what smuggler or other lowlife would want to be anywhere near him ever again? It’s not really conducive to business to be around someone wanted by both the criminal underworld and the “legitimate” government. After meeting Leia, he had no alternative but to join the rebellion – “the best of limited options”.
What about the whole leaving bit? He didn’t have to come back. He didn’t have to transport Obi-Wan and Luke, he didn’t have to continue - he was persuaded to do so. Being persuaded did not mean that he was maneuvered by a “high-maintenance woman.” If Luke had been doing the convincing, would you use a similar label?
Life changing when you didn’t want to change your life pretty much equals high-maintenance, IMO…
I disagree. Relationships of any sort - work, friendship, romantic, familial - all require us to consider our actions and beliefs and challenge us to interact in positive ways (at least I hope so!) with those around us. We necessarily adapt. As a personal example, I was quite content with myself the way I was before I met the man who became my husband (and he was fine with how he was), but over the course of our relationship he has become more open-minded, and I have become more tolerant of people who display characteristics I dislike. I wouldn’t call either of us high-maintenance. But people change over time.
I couldn’t disagree more. She treated them all with the same contempt that she treated Vader and Tarkin. Even if they had no plan, they were trying to help her. She may as well have commented on their “foul stench”. All in all, I find Leia to be very disagreeable through most of this film.
Whereas I found Leia to be one of the most likeable characters, and the one that I could identify with most. She gets things done, she’s loyal, idealistic, and cares deeply about the things that matter to her. She’s effective. She’d make an excellent hero 
Good point.
yes, they get her out of her cell and into a firefight with no escape route. Han himself doesn’t even believe in the plan, and I don’t think I’m the only one who thinks his “I had everything under control until you led us down here” is a crock of sh*t. he’s no picnic either, ungratefully sarcastic when her quick thinking got them out of the line of fire. and if Luke had just been as quick a thinker as his sibling, called 3PO right away, there’d have been no problem (and, of course, no drama)
I too go with the crock reaction. Ineptitude.
this is never more true than with Leia. she takes charge, she doesn’t take any craaaap, and she calls an inept rescue like she sees it.
And that’s part of why I love her
But power, at least most of it, was firmly in the hands of the Emperor before. Getting boarded and detained by Vader might have been a clue that she wasn’t immune. But I don’t see her begging for mercy or her life anywhere. “Help me, you’re my only hope” I don’t see at all as pleading for rescue, but rather, pleading that he sees her mission through. Leia’s an operative who is ensuring that her information gets into the right hands.
I can see that, but the garbage chute? Really? How was that a good plan? Remaining in a hallway with Stormtroopers or jumping down a hole that leads to…? A furnace? An airlock that jettisons debris into space? Or even a small compactor room, which even the stupidest Stormtrooper can find on the map? Do you think it’s coincidence that the compacting started not long after they got down there?
Considering that our boys didn’t have an escape plan, what would you have her do? Go meekly back into her cell? Get shot? Really?
I could not agree more. If their roles were reversed and Leia and Luke were going to save Han (let’s just keep ourselves in New Hope, here), would people be calling Han high-maintenance if he takes charge of the rescue when it is going badly? No, of course not. He’s the roguish character that we expect to act that way. But Leia challenges the expectations of most viewers in being a woman who takes charge and is competent. And because of that, she is identified as “shrewish,” a “bitca,” and even “high-maintenance.”
RDM or someone from the writing staff backed away from the glowy spines of the mini and season 1 by saying that Cylon spines only glowed when the model was feeling true love… don’t blame it on women! We can cat around with the best of the menfolk (though the whole love thing can be nice sometimes, too, I guess)