Likewise. My brother has a very bad stutter, and if anyone even jokes about it, I really get in people’s faces over it. Some people can be pretty heartless. I too have some hearing problems by way of Tinnitus in both ears, and it is not fun. I suppose the silver lining is that it is a recent problem that developed two years ago, and not something I had to deal with when I was young. I say “huh, Sorry, could you repeat that” quite a bit.
if you know what comic that is i would be very interested in finding it.
“huh, Sorry, could you repeat that” quite a bit.
huh? J/K
Yeah, that got me into trouble sometimes when I was younger. Even saying “Beg your pardon?” would come off wrong. Some times adults would think I was being disrespectful or something. 9 times out of 10 I was just trying to catch exactly what they said.
Wow!
Cool call-in from Grace Park! Are we lucky, or what!?
Solai rocks the contacts! Boo-yah!!
Not sure what to make of this. Seems to be a rabid SW fan bashing on ST while making huge leaps to defend SW. (Just noticed the domain name. I think I’m right there.)
I walked out of TPM thinking it was pretty racially insensitive, and so did my (black) GF. We both agreed on the stereotypes involved. The guy who wrote that article doesn’t even know who Stepin Fetchit was.
Now, I don’t hink for a minute that Lucas was doing it intentionally, and in the case of Jar-Jar in particular it seems overblown (the actor was carribean.) But it’s the kind of thing that someone should have flagged as problematic, and apparently nobody can do that to George.
While serching for a you tube clip for the Darth Plagis talk I came accross a few funny vids.
Here’s the full speech. The line missing is… “Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagis the wise?”
I haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but awhile back I stumbled upon that article… and found that it was pretty incoherent in terms of anything about the movies.
I agree that I don’t think GL sat down when he was coming up with the characters saying, hey I want a caricature of a Caribbean man! Let’s make him totally useless, annoying, and uneducated! That would be AWESOME.
But: it’s there. When this topic has come up in other podcasts and threads, there are those who argue that it’s sci-fi, it doesn’t map onto our world, that the prejudices and -isms aren’t there. I’ll just reiterate (at least until I listen to the 'cast!) that art necessarily takes from life, and we don’t consume art in a vacuum. Racial stereotypes in our world can resonate with the portrayal of characters in fiction, and provoke us to consider our relationship with the world around us. Or, as in the case of Jar Jar, it makes us question the judgment of everyone around George Lucas and Star Wars for their use of an unconscious stereotype that just came off as horrendous.
And as someone who works on these things in her, well, work, it just really bothers me when people start an argument with statements like I am X and therefore I know all. For me, it’s OK to let “inside knowledge” generate questions, but when that’s all one depends upon for evidence, I have a hard time buying the argument that is being made. Personal experience is important and valid, but it is not the be all and end all of evidence of life. /rant
Yeah I wasn’t a fan of that guy’s article.
I just thought that an underwater life form may sound different when out of water. I really missed any racist statement. Wookies and Ewoks did not even speak a language that we could understand and Yoda’s syntax was horrible.
I did not watch the movie recently so this is from long term memory. I always thought that Star Wars took a great deal of positive images from other cultures. The Jedi was not exactly patterned after the white European culture. Much of the costumes and other alien culture were (sorry if I am misled no harm intended) Japanese in style. I think there is a fine line of making something alien in nature, but not so alien that we can not relate to the character.
Wow I did not read the TNG stuff at all. It makes the guy sound like an idiot. A total and complete idiot, he uses some of the same sort of arguments he was bashing people for using on star wars against tng.
Joe
Yeah, it’s a whole lot safer to go with “Yub Yub” than “Meesa glad to see ya!”
I did not watch the movie recently so this is from long term memory. I always thought that Star Wars took a great deal of positive images from other cultures. The Jedi was not exactly patterned after the white European culture. Much of the costumes and other alien culture were (sorry if I am misled no harm intended) Japanese in style. I think there is a fine line of making something alien in nature, but not so alien that we can not relate to the character.
You are correct. The Jedi are derived from the Samauri flicks (Kurosawa especially) but they evolved from there. I’ll throw out there that Yoda speaks with what many consider a Yiddish grammar (Germanic “Subject Object Verb”)
But you can get away with that with “positive” characters. You have to be REALLY careful with the villians, or the comic relief. If only because you know that people are going to be offended.
Since we’re on the topic of star wars. . .I’ve always been intrigued by the story of the rise of the empire. One of the things the expanded universe novels explain is the reasons Palpatine did it, or at least used to justify what he did. And frankly, it does come close to justifying it. Certainly if the Empire hadn’t come to be, everyone in the galaxy would’ve been royally, totally and completely screwed. Since remember the old republic didn’t have any real military force, and erm not to spoil things but about 25 years later military forces become really, really important for the continued survival of just about everyone.
Joe
Listening to the podcast now and just wanted to comment on Darth Mauls skin coloring. The race is calle Zabarak, and in KOTOR 2, you have one in your party called Bao-Dur. Bao-Dur starts of sort of tan/bluish. If you follow the correct conversation tree (think mass effect) it is revealed he can learn the force. If you train him as a Jedi his appearance remains the same, but as a Sith he gets red markings on his body. I think its like how the dark side physically changed palpatine and Anakin with their yellow eyes you see in revenge of the Sith.
Well the joke on me is that my hearing is fine, it’s just that it has to compete with the ringing in my ears.
A few quick comments:
re: racism and Gungans
Truthfully, it wasn’t the “meesa this” and “meesa that” that made me suspect that the Gungans weren’t particularly bright – it was the fact that (despite the EU’s extensive attempts to show us otherwise) almost every Gungan with a notable role in the movie acted foolish. We have Jar Jar, of course, who can’t seem to figure out what’s going on around him most of the time and the leader who (like Jar Jar in Ep. II) seems to fall for simplistic arguments that most others would question.
That said, remember that I’m one of the people who’s been taking fire around these parts for a while for liking the prequels. So essentially I blot this physical evidence out of my mind and see the Gungans as they’re presented in the EU: different, but fierce, intelligent warriors.
re: racism and Neimoidians (and the linked article)
The Neimoidians don’t look Asian – they sound Asian. And I agree with what everyone else is saying here: Lucas didn’t set out to do this, and I don’t see recognizing that there’s a problem with the end result as some kind of attack on him. It’s just unfortunate. Just like Gungans who make no sense compared to their EU existence, I just pretend I didn’t see 'em and move on to enjoy the story.
re: true racism in Star Wars (i.e. Palpatine’s EU-documented feeling that non-humans are lesser beings)
You’ll hear the argument pretty regularly that “racism” in our world isn’t really racism because the various groups involved are actually of the same “race.” This is true: different skin color – or different nationality or different socio-economic backgrounds do not change the fact that we’re all human. However, the concept of “racism” (in our world) takes into account the fact that part of racism itself often includes believing (incorrectly) that different people are indeed of another race – so that racists can see others as lesser than themselves.
This, however, has nothing to do with Palpatine’s racism. Palpatine hates other races. I find this truly facinating as a) it offers a fictional world in which the above basic argument is completely nullified, allowing us to explore our feelings about the concept in a new way, and b) I’m blown away that Palpatine’s racism seems to make virtually no appearance in the movies. Unless I’m mistaken, we pretty much have to delve into EU to understand it – even though it affects the Star Wars universe in dramatic fashion.
And re: you know more about Star Wars than me, Audra, or Sean
As I tried to let everyone know in the podcast, we don’t claim to be Star Wars experts – just enthusiastic fans. If you know more about something than we do – and it’s a fair bet that you do – I encourage you to act in the spirit of GWC and share your knowledge. Drop a post here or call in and let us know what we missed/didn’t know/you don’t agree with. We always look forward to learning. 
re: joeedh/25 years later
I’d imagine you’re talking about the Yuuzhan Vong, and I definitely think you have a point. But I’m not sure that the benefits of the Empire’s military organization in the later war would outweigh the incredible damage they’d do to the people of the galaxy. And there’s always the argument that if the Empire had lasted (in its strong, Emporor/Vader-led version) that long their military forces would’ve become long since corrupt to the point of becoming ineffectual against such an organized extra-galactic enemy.
Anyway, that’s probably far more rambling than you deserve from me…
Chuck, if we couldn’t handle your rambling, we’d have been outta here a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago 
Siege,
Welcome to the forum, and we are always glad to have your feedback. Although it’s not customary to insult the hosts on one’s first visit, I’ll assume you’re taking a cue from other forum experiences and hadn’t realized it’s not the MO here.
Anyway, like Chuck said, we are not experts and don’t claim to be when it comes to the sci-fi and fantasy genres we love so much. We’re fans, and the Watercooler title indicates that we like to shoot the breeze and share fun and thought-provoking ideas.
It’s true that I am woefully uneducated about the Star Wars universe. I had hoped that as a relative noob, I could speak for others who may listen to GWC but are also somewhat unfamiliar with it.
Really being a fan of something should let us want to share it with others, and let them see what we find great about it. By humiliating those who are still trying to learn, it sends the message that outsiders are not welcome - only established die-hard fans can partake. Even in jest, not cool.
Well the joke on me is that my hearing is fine, it’s just that it has to compete with the ringing in my ears.
Yeah I’ve pretty much had ringing in my ears my entire life. It’s just white noise almost by now.
I’d imagine you’re talking about the Yuuzhan Vong, and I definitely think you have a point. But I’m not sure that the benefits of the Empire’s military organization in the later war would outweigh the incredible damage they’d do to the people of the galaxy. And there’s always the argument that if the Empire had lasted (in its strong, Emporor/Vader-led version) that long their military forces would’ve become long since corrupt to the point of becoming ineffectual against such an organized extra-galactic enemy.
Another fun debate that has gone on for years concerning the Vong is that maybe if the Empire were still around they would’ve kicked their butts right out of the galaxy as soon as the Vong showed up.
Agreed, well put.
Hell i come here for the rambling…
i know i’m alone here but for me your best episodes were during what laughingly call the hiatus, ( i could come up with other names for the break but they all start with F and end badly so i’ll refrain.)
also not trying to pile on to anyone specific but Stop putting down the hosts of GWC
I know we all have areas where were more or less knowledgeable, but lay off those who aren’t. I know i don’t know to much about Star wars beside the movies themselves, and i think thats just fine. because were all here just for the fun of it.
Just gotta say something about which main character is more annoying. Anakin v.s. Luke.
both characters went through 3 movies. Luke at the end definately wasn’t that annoying. But to me, the most Annoying of Anakin wasn’t in Ep 1. There he was just a boy, and if you think he is annoying, then you should have seen my cousins 
Anakin is more annoying in later Eps when all he could talk about is “Obiwon don’t let me do this, Mater don’t let me do that” I just want Padme to smack him on the head.
But I am afraid like Audra, Padme was just looking flexing muscles and not hearing the words coming out of the dude’s mouth.
I have nothing Star Wars oriented to add, but Thomas the Tank Engine rocked my childhood. As a child I knew George Carlin as Mr. Conductor on Shining Time Station. When I got older and heard his stand up, it made him even more awesome.