I hear you, but it sounds like you are saying one that has belief in something and one that has belief in nothing can never understand each other but can respect each other for who they are.
For what it is worth I will never buy that and feel it is a short road to (pardon the religious metaphor) hell. We as a society as slipping into a casual segmentation where one group doesn’t engage with the other and accepts that as the way it is. Religious v. atheist, Democrat v. Republican, Star Wars v. Star Trek, I am too intellectually curious and passionate about critical thinking to simply roll over and say, “Hey that works for you and that’s cool.”
It isn’t about trying to convince someone that my way is right, or their’s is wrong. I want to explore other’s world views to expand my own understanding. I think the fact the subject matter started out as belief, religion and spirituality immediately raised people’s defenses. Perhaps it is my inner Socrates that believes that the unexamined life is not worth living, but it is also true I by my nature want to examine the lives of those around me.
I’m not saying you can’t understand the otherside, what I’m saying is that you (The royal you) don’t need to put somebody else’s ideas into your framework to understand it. Like “Oh Star Trek it’s like Star Wars without the force, I gotcha” that doesn’t fly in my mind, that’s not trying to understand it. You know?
I loved this episode too. Cheezus was way too funny, but at the end when Finn ate it, it was very powerful and moving.
It was also interesting to see how everyone uses their prayers. Finn being the “nice guy” I would not have thought he’d be the only one who never prayed for Burt to get better (not to the grilled Cheezus anyway). Considering what he told Kurt about Burt being the closest thing he has to a dad, it was a very interesting character revelation with Finn.
I think Kurt apologised because he interpreted other people’s prayers as being directed at him, while they were about his father getting well. You don’t have to believe in god to understand why someone would feel the need to wish for better things to happen. It’s just that they were conditioned to wish to a deity.
If the glee kids were saying things like “kurt, it’s because you abandoned god that’s why you are suffering” kind of zealous things, then Kurt totally has the right to be angry at them for imposing their beliefs.
I have heard so many times people from all kinds of religion casually saying “<insert natural dissaster> happened because they people <do/don’t> believe in <insert religion>.” now that’s what’s really wrong with the world.
by the way, the fact that a show about high school kids singing is inspiring this level of discussion, i’d say it’s a show worth watching. so, don’t be put off by the artist themed episodes, all shows has horrible episodes, it’s the best of the episodes that defines a TV series for me.
Let me start by saying this was a great episode and a redemption from the pain that was the “Britney” episode.
I would just like to comment on what has been said. I am disturbed by some of the posts and without any pretext other then mutual understanding I would like to respond.
I don’t understand how you came away with this impression. Nothing in the episode could be considered an attempt at conversion. Also, he didn’t apologize for anything other than shutting out his friends. Which is understandable considering the circumstances.
They are all morally superior to killing a chicken. That said, I am sure if Kurt asked them to do any number of odd things to help him through they would. The church had no other implication then to be a comfort to him and to share in his pain…and hope.
I would just like to point out that your words are contradictory. I “believe” and have “faith” that you are sincere about not converting us, but to finish by calling all but your beliefs “fantasy” is disheartening.
Solai is absolutely right. Your responses are as if you saw a completely different episode. Finding insults where there are none, it is confusing me as I honestly try to see it your way. The act of mentioning the name Jesus or God or church in itself is not an act of proselytization.
Yes, this is quite the over-reaction. To imply that Solai is doing anything other then trying to understand your perspective is shocking. It’s also a very emotional response. Similar to how Kurt came to his beliefs, not through logic but based on emotion. I’m not saying he isn’t justified to it, just that he said so in his own words.
To say there is no common (or middle) ground is to be closed minded. If your world view is at point A and Solai’s is point Z, everything between is middle ground. one can easily travel to other points while still having their home at either end. The greater the distance between the two points the longer the journey. If you send out invitations we will now how to find you and can com take a look at your place. IYKWIM
IMO - What Solai is trying to describe is having a sense of purpose to life. Is it to live life to the fullest - don’t take it for granted? Do what makes you happy - follow your passions or eat, drink and be merry? Be of service to others? Learn as much as you can? Earn as much as you can? Be as powerful as you can? Have a family? Be a great parent? Teach? Fall in Love?
I think what is most important to you is what defines oneself and could be described as ones belief.
DP is doing a great job filling in some gaps. I think it’s hard to put down into words what at the core are very strong emotions for all of us. In a way we are all much more similar then our beliefs. GWC attracts people with similar values. That is what allows for these type of discussions which I always find fascinating.
At least we all agree that Crom is up there watching over all of us. If not, then to hell with him!
It’s interesting how inserting faith can stir up the emotions. I do respect that some people aren’t religious, but what was great about this episode is that it showed all the faucets of faith- blind, self-serving- heartfelt. Must you be a person of faith to appreciate this episode? I really hope not. To me, the most important part of taking a side on an issue is to 1) know which side you’re on & why and 2)be open to understanding the other position & why people support it.
Any thoughts on this week’s episode? I liked it, but I have mixed thoughts about Kurt and his interest in straight guys. I almost feel like it perpetuates the notion that gays are predatory. Am I off the mark? The crush on Finn was fine, then it got a bit weird, but under the context of Kurt feeling like he was being replaced by Finn in his Dad’s eyes, there was some balance.
I’m interested as a viewer to watch Kurt’s struggle with loneliness, it makes sense given his situation, but tonight I felt more uncomfortable than empathetic, because of the reason I stated above.
The Brittney/Artie hookup was heartbreaking.
Why does Rachel get three songs and Mercedes only get one?
They edited “Sing.” The line is “guys were coming in their pants” not “messing their pants.” If we can show two girls about to make out during the “family” hour, then we can sing show tunes in their proper context. Don’t F*ck with perfect Broadway lyrics!
My wife and I didn’t understand what was so shocking about the Fin/Rachel song until we looked it up (Priest seducing catholic schoolgirl?) on a review. I thought the reactions were a bit forced, and perhaps I’m just slow, but it would have been nice if they hadn’t just assumed everyone got the ‘scandal’. Sometimes a little tiny nugget of exposition can go a long way.
Of the few people that were comfortable to openly admit to me they are gay (and i lived in California, and still it’s in the single digits), i don’t think gay people possess a superior ability to tell if others are gay or control that they only like other people of their sexual orientation.
the first person that was openly gay to me liked another girl who was a bit of a homo-phob, and got her heart broken, it’s way worse than a rejection from people of the same orientation. i guess it’s the possibility for that kind of nasty response that drives gay people to seek an environment that they be pretty certain the people are also interested.
In Kurt’s situation, where he is in an area that’s unfriendly to homosexuals, and he happens to be the only one openly guy person in his circle, i can imagine that he has to at least try and identify if someone is a potential interest, because there’s no other way of finding out.
That’s just my take on it. Sure he was pushing with Finn and that maybe seen as predatory, but it was his first crush, people behave a least in some stupid/possessive/stalky manner towards the first crush, if they didn’t completely withdrawn from their crush.
I didn’t think Kurt was too pushy towards the new guy. He wanted them to do a duet and see if things can go from there. It’s seems normal. The only weird part might be the shower talk. but Kurt was breaking up their duet partnership.
In contrast with Finn/Rachel, Mike/Tina, Quinn and … the new guy, i just find Kurt and Artie’s aloneness a bit heart breaking this episode.
There are other people who are alone like Mr. Schue and Mercedes, but they don’t seem that lonely in this episode. Brittany was lonely but her loneliness was a bit comical…
Wow, I totally missed that. After the song I was left scratching my head wondering what was so bad. Mrs. Solai guessed that Rachel was a nun being seduced by a priest which I didn’t find shocking at all. A priest seducing a schoolgirl? Ok, better.
I hope it’s ok to talk a little bit more about the Grilled Cheese episode (I just watched 4 of them in a row - yeah, the less said about the Britney episode, the better. Missed opportunity for character development and purely just a “oh, Britney makes everyone crave sex” (which is odd in itself. She’s /was sexy, but I don’t think Britney was ever that big of an icon for sex itself episode. She wasn’t really risque or anything, just yet another pop idol who dresses in skimpy outfits) episode. I love and hate Glee, so usually I watch them as batches (so I can ff through some of them) instead of following week to week). I think for the most part, the show portrayed atheists in a way far better than most tv shows have, and didn’t pander to either extremes (there wasn’t any religious zealots or Richard Dawson type figures), so that’s kind of a relief. I did have a problem with the fact that the only two atheists on the show, Kurt and Sue, the show had to give reason to why they don’t believe in a god - Kurt being gay and Sue being angry because of her sister. It would have been nice if they had a character who is an atheists not because of some personal trauma or indignation but simply because he/she believes in no gods. I think sometimes there is a small tendency of some people who are religious who thinks that there’s always some kind of reason (and thus, something that is ‘fixable’) that causes someone to be atheists, when usually there isn’t one. It would have been equally annoying if the show had a bunch of religious people who all believe in god because they all had some bad life experience that ‘caused’ them to believe in god. So, that part was a bit annoying to me.
As for this week’s episode, I’m actually glad the show went back to the episode where the quarterback guy said the F-word to Kurt. While that is obviously inexcusable in every way, I liked that the show gave us the other side as well - that while that guy is homophobic, Kurt and his father recognized that Kurt was being a bit psycho in pursuing him way back when. (Like, if it was a girl who that guy didn’t like pursued him in that manner, the guy would probably respond in a similar manner - but just called her psycho or batshat crazy instead of that horrible hateful word). But yes, I can understand Kurt’s desire to find out if the new guy was gay (which was a valid question). Poor Kurt. He’s probably one of the sole reasons why I still watch the show (and also, I sometimes ff through some of the songs, but I never ff Kurt’s performances. Chris Colfer is a terrific find for the show.)
I watch Glee the same way. You really hit several nails square on the head, coco. A certain belief structure (or lack thereof) doesn’t need a defining event or axe to grind. No single event made me an agnostic.
And as far as the previous “fantasy” comments go, I understand the frustration factor there. I live in Iowa and religion is still very present out here. I mean, there are fish sandwich promos EVERY lent out here, which was totally baffling to me after growing up in Southern California. And many schools had Good Friday off, which was absolutely shocking.
Almost all private schools are religious. Most outside of school programs are religious. It’s going to be difficult because I want to move to an even smaller town, and most small towns are bastions of religion, but I don’t believe in Christianity or its worldview, and I don’t know how I’m going to raise my kid when he surrounded by religious people. It’s difficult enough to try to explain to your kid what you believe when it doesn’t have the same happy ending that religions provide; it’s going to be even harder when everyone else believes differently.
I also really liked that Kurt got called out for his actions towards Finn last year. Also, I don’t think they portrayed Kurt as being predatory. He just likes guys, and cute guys draw his interest, and not all guys may be willing to admit that they’re gay. Not every high school has a group of gay students as brave and out as Kurt is.
What did people think about the Duet episode aside from the Finn telling Kurt to back off part? Is Britney really bisexual, or is she really a lesbian, because Santana seems way more important to her, yet she’s fine with sleeping around.
I was kind of hoping the Britney episode to be more like this one. Brittany had a lot of character development in this.
Artie and Brittany? hmm… anyway, i don’t know if the writers dare to explore what made Brittany the way she is. Or are they afraid they wil ruin the best laugh inducing character on the show.
Overall I thought it was a bit meh, but I really enjoyed seeing Emma’s character development. I think John Stamos is perfect in his role. I love that Sue is making Becky a little mini-me, it’s a great slap-in-the-face to all the feel-good crap that gets dumped on the disabled. Becky is layered now, it’s too perfect.
I also liked that Mercedes stood up for herself. I am really sick of Rachel, so much so, that I can barely stand the actress who plays her, which really isn’t fair.
Did everyone see the racy Glee pictures in GQ? I thought they were too crude. I understand they’re all adults, posing for an adult magazine, but the girls looked slutty and I just didn’t care for it.
I didn’t mind the shirtless Mr Shue in the Rocky show though!
That said, I found the censorship ridiculous. They carved those songs up like a transexual sex change, and it was clashing (for myself and other folks I talked to who know the songs).
Also, for a ‘low budget glee club with no money’, they certainly seem to be able to drop amazing amounts of money on sets. The suspension of disbelief needed to watch the show now is just off the charts for me, I’m not sure I’ll come back after this episode. I can no more gloss over this stuff anymore than I could all the bad science in Armageddon.
I don’t really mind the production. the elevator was probably a bit much, but it’s just a performance and they are pretty spectacular. besides, the dentist could have shelled out for the production. After all his girl friend is the designer and he is playing a role in the show, plus he is a huge rocky horror fan, and he is rich.
i mean there are ways to justify it if you try, and if you don’t want to, then you probably don’t want to watch it for some other reason. there were plenty of stuff that made no frakking sense on BSG, but because fans of BSG likes to believe “they have a plan”, we try to patch them up with theories and lively discussions.
the censorship that people dislike says more about the FCC and the TV execs than the writer and producers of the show. I actually think it’s a round about way to point out this fact and raise awareness, because it is about making a statement. In fact John Stamos was going to be Dr. Frank N. Furter, but the network did not want to see a man in transvestite outfit.
as for the songs themselves, i thought they did a good job. i don’t think i’ll get tired of rachel singing, and she didn’t sing that much in this episode either. Mercedise’s rendition of Dr. Frank N. Furter was simply awesome.
Any guess on whose lips it was in the openning? I am guessing Quinns.
I don’t normally watch the show, but I love me some Rocky Horror. And while the songs were very well done, it really felt watered down and, well, safe.
I’m also struck by the audacity of spending the time, money, and energy to make sets and costumes, and then they didn’t even perform for an audience. What school has that kind of arts budget?
