Enterprise discussion

Since the crew talked about watching Enterprise, I went back and rewatched a couple of the Xindi episodes…

it is sitting a little better with me this time around. since I am liking same of the Xindi characters a bit more, it’s gotten a bit better.

Though the end of season 3, and the whole nazi arch still has me rolling my eyes…

They really should have called it Time Trek: Enterprise…

T’Pol is simply the sexist Vulcan ever. But I think the best looking crew has to be Porthos… he’s so cute, and he’s always nude.

I really liked that Xindi scientist who helped Archer once he learned what his materials were being used for. And even though I hated Degra, by the end of the season I had come to respect him.

Damn Reptilians! :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m a bit into season 4, and I’m not sure what to make of it. The Nazi thing was odd. I liked T’Pol going back to Vulcan, and the stuff with her mom… but I also just like T’Pol.

Season 4 is definitely the best… if only they opened it better.

The idea that the temporal cold war changed the past is cool. NAZI almost controlled the entire world. The problem is… we’ve seen the whole NAZI in Star Trek thing so many times. They had NAZI-ish stories in Trek since TOS.

And of course the bad guys are aligned with the NAZIs… It would have been a lot more interesting if the bad aliens actually allied with the US, promising the Allies a secret weapon to stop NAZIs and the Japanese Empire. But instead used the resources to build their conduit.

To defeat the bad guys, Enterprise crew has to help the NAZIs to get into Allied secret research labs. Now that’d be twisted and cool…

So I’ve now finished watching Enterprise, and in doing so, have watched every single episode of Star Trek ever made (I don’t have the encyclopedic memory of them all like 'talos or Thot, but still…). It’s bittersweet - unless they make more, I’ll never have new Trek again! (except the movies). Sigh.

Having seen it all now: Enterprise is not a bad series, even though there were episodes that weren’t to my tastes, and characters that never quite got off the ground for me. When I think of stand-out moments over the four seasons (and I loved both seasons 3 and 4), they are things like:
[ul]
[li]all the politics dealing with the Vulcans. I loved it, starting with the destruction of P’Jem (The Andorian Incident), and I could never get enough of it.[/li][li]The episode where Hoshi is supposed to become the companion of the weird telepath guy but she decides not to. It really resonated with me (plus, Hoshi = a character I really like)[/li][li]Though I was doubtful at first, I really liked where the T’Pol-Trip relationship went over the course of the show. This was no doubt influenced by the fact that T’Pol is by far my favorite character on Enterprise, but I feel that their relationship allowed for some of the best characterization moments in the show. Plus, it always had consequences that we could see from episode to episode[/li][li]I enjoyed the arcishness of season 3 (like I said before, I thought the Xindi were a great idea), and its move to explore how far Archer was willing/capable of going to preserve humanity. I think these themes got a lot more explicitly explored in BSG but at the same time, I thought it was appropriate.[/li][li]Best mirror universe episode(s) EVER. EVER. The closing of it, in particular. Go Empress Sato![/li][li]I can see why people would dislike “These are the Voyages,” but it didn’t anger me. It didn’t feel like an ending, per se, but I can’t think of a Trek finale that has actually satisfied me (the one that came closest was DS9’s “What you leave behind”).[/li][*]The final push of Enterprise (Bound - In a Mirror, Darkly - Demons - Terra Prime) finally got to me emotionally the way the other series did. Up until that point Enterprise was just a bit of entertainment that was more awesome than others because it was Trek. But the last few episodes really changed my opinion of the series (in a positive way).[/ul]

i think the reason for the fans of each trek series to resonate with the series of their choice is because of their connection to the crew. TOS definitely is all about the connection to the crew. TNG feels like that too. DS9 had awesome story arcs, but what draws me in is still the crew. Voyager for me is all about the crew. Voyager for me is almost sitcom-ish, the episodes i really enjoy often leaves me heart warmed, or really touched. I can see why people don’t like it, but those who enjoyed it for that reason really loved the characters.

for Enterprise that connection came too late and that was the problem. unlike writers for TNG and VOY, the writers for enterprise weren’t very good at writing single episode stories. rarely were there philosophical stories that left you wondering at the end, or really heart warming moments that lets you identify with the crew.

they were better at writing arcs. so when the first two seasons were dominated by single episode stories which didn’t manage to evolve the crew pass our initial impressions of them, the series suffered. when they finally hit their stride in the mini-arcs, the series was over…

too bad, i loved Trip and T’Pol…

Hey all,

Chuck started watching Enterprise a little while back, usually during the times where I was working odd hours. I recently joined in at the end of Season 2, and now we’re at the point where they just entered the Xindi story line and the ship went into the Delphic Expanse.

I’ve got to say, the first few episodes I saw (Season 2) were pretty rough, and I was considering giving up until this new Xindi war storyline. My thots:

  1. Archer - I think Archer is the biggest flaw this show has, at least to the point I’ve seen. I like the idea of Archer very much, and I’ve seen Scott Bakula act with skill. But up until the Xindi war, Archer sounds so flat and emotionless, his phrases clipped as if out of context from anything around him. We decided it sounded like pre-recorded sentences in a video game that could be stuffed ad-hoc into any situation. I understand he’s less formal and less reigned-in than any of the other captains, but it seems to me he’s lacking in leadership skills. He is admirable sometimes in his actions, when he loyally defends his principles. But when it comes to interacting with his crew, he seems kind of confused, or stunted, or lacking the greater perception required to be a good captain.

Example: Trip throws first contact with an alien species completely down the toilet by teaching a third-gendered person to read and dream of a life of individual expression. It basically had been relegated to “pet” status, as its only usefulness was providing an enzyme necessary for the married couple to have offspring. Trip’s interference causes a terrible outcome, but Archer doesn’t even try to connect with Trip on the matter as he dresses him down.

He could have said “You were trying to apply human values to an alien situation, and while your intentions were noble, it led to disaster. We must remember that we can’t foresee such consequences and therefore have to follow the rules.” Instead, Archer blasts him angrily for disobeying orders and storms off without any real discussion. He loses the opportunity to teach his officer a valuable lesson that could have important consequences in the future.

Just one example, but one that struck me as bad captain-ing. Picard, Sisko, and Janeway would have all tried to connect with Trip to teach him something, and I think even practical-minded Kirk would have done something beyond administering disapproval. Trip said that despite the rules he did what he believed Archer would have done in that situation, and we know this was true, yet Archer acts completely caught off guard that his officers might look to him as an example.

Ultimately Archer does come off, like others here have said, as wide-eyed, naive, and somewhat meddling. It’s not a huge problem, because I kind of like that he has so much heart behind his actions. It would just be nice to see some of that heart, or thoughtfulness, or something going on behind the eyes, other than reading lines.

  1. T’Pol and Trip are, in my opinion, the strongest characters on the show - meaning the most developed, dynamic, and engaging to the audience. T’Pol is in the ole’ catsuit, yes, but she’s also very interesting, intelligent, and startlingly loyal and understanding of human values compared to her Vulcan counterparts. She’s sexy but not over-sexualized (at least when she’s not being rubbed down with goo). Trip’s accent annoys me a little, but he brings a kind of work ethic and rural-seeming practical sensibility that’s refreshing. He’s kind and funny, and not totally predictable. Good stuff. And Phlox is a less major character, but he brings this quirky, knowing kind of weirdness, intelligence, and charisma. His acceptance of all kinds of cultural things that humans find out of the norm is pretty cool, especially when we have to watch the other characters (or ourselves) squirm a little.

  2. Travis is cool, but there’s almost nothing to his character. He’s like the perfect, obedient, well-trained officer with no flaws. I like him all right, but he’s not interesting in the least. Except, holy crap, the guy is built like a model-athlete, and they do nothing with that.

I keep expecting Malcolm to be interesting, but he’s not. Plus, they keep portraying him as exceptionally attractive to females in various encounters, and I don’t really see that either.

  1. The theme song - I hated it the first few times I heard it. Then I paid close attention to the visuals behind it and realized how much heart and soul went into the idea. It feels a little like a Christian rock tune, but I was down with that. Then they picked up the rhythm and made it sound more “upbeat” just as the series storyline turned dark. It now feels out of place, and the heartfelt vocal performance, which is always among the front credits, gets buried beneath the cheerful thumping of synth drums.

  2. Writing and dialogue - pretty bad, unmotivated, and loaded with cliches, until about Season 3. There was a sudden shift, where storylines became more coherent, and people started sounding like people. It’s disappointing that the many really good plot ideas behind the scenes were tanked by other problems. (Except the episode that was an anemic re-make of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. Whose idea was that?)

All in all, I actually do like the show. I don’t like the way Archer is executed as a character, but he has improved dramatically as we get into Season 3. T’Pol is great, Trip and Phlox are cool, and the others at least don’t drag them down. I would have turned my attention to other things, but the Delphic Expanse storyline has brought me back.

It’s so bad. It doesn’t even anger, it’s just fun to make fun of. Every time I plan a project on the house or we getting ready to go for a drive, I’ll bust out, ‘It’s been a long road…’ in full bravado.

I do agree that visually it’s inspiring but the song is so Michael Bolton. I’ll be honest with you, I love his music. I do. I’m a Michael Bolton fan. For my money, I don’t know if it gets any better than when he sings “When a Man Loves a Woman”.

This guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_A._Goodman

This is so funny. Star Trek is like family. You love it no matter what. You give it a chance and some times it surprises you, other times it can really disappoint. Overall, though, it’s home and where the heart (and imagination) rests.

I’m not sure if I’ve said this, perhaps so, but IMO Enterprise’s major flaw was going backwards. Originally they wanted to show the gritty beginnings of the Federation. It did not execute that, at all.

So awesome that Chuck and now you are watching Enterprise.
Loved reading your thots and insights Audra. I loved Enterprise inasmuch as it was Star Trek, but I do acknowledge it’s got flaws and it’s a miss opportunity in a way.

It did seem Archer’s character and the execution of it (via Bakula’s acting) was off somehow, and I like the way you articuated that.
We’re so used to amazing and solid Star Trek captains, so Archer kinda doesn’t live up.

Agreed. Especially T’Pol she plays the cool Vulcan perfectly early on but her emotional struggles really shine through as the series progresses.

Phlox also–such a rich interesting character. A lot of depth to his species quirks and particularities. Cool to show a completely new alien race and with interesting traits…not just a “whatever” race like Neelix’s race (whatever that was).

LOL. I know it’s corny theme song, but it worked for me. I found myself huming to myself all the time when the show was on the air.

Personally I didn’t much care for the Xindi arc and I was glad when that was done with. For me, Enterprise is at its best in Season 4 when they, it seems to me, decided to embrace the idea of being a prequel to Star Trek The Original Series and have stories that touched on races, events, history that links into Kirk’s Star Trek. If the whole Enterprise series had done that, it would have been better.

Yeah, if it was about the early days of the Federation that could have been far more interesting than this “pre-Federation” point in history that Enterprise is placed it.
All that said, I love the moments that make references to future Trek lore. Like the episode “Minefield” when the Enterprise first encounters Romulans. I’m thinking to myself “Holy Crap, it’s the Romulans!”

One of my favorite, most inconic moments in Enterprise is one the early season one episodes when they make their first(?) new world planetary landing. They land with the ShuttlePod, and who’s first out the door? Porthos the dog. Made me smile. I love the naivete, and the notion that Star Fleet (was it called Star Fleet yet? I forget) didn’t having any protocol yet. Just land, let the dog run around :smiley:

There was a Starfleet, just no Federation yet.

I liked the Porthos bit as well and I wanted more of those moments, exploration I mean. I think Enterprise suffered from too many cooks. Honestly I don’t know what went on behind the scenes. I can only guess but Enterprise always felt like they couldn’t make up their minds what worked? what didn’t? what kind of show was it going to be? It was confusing and frustrating as a viewer.

When the Xindi arc first aired, I was relieved. Finally they figured out what they want to do. And I was rooting for them. I wanted it to do well. But like you said, Thot, as I look back on it. I didn’t really enjoy the whole Xindi thing. It was just better than the Time War (or whutever they called it) with the Suliban.

Season 4 had Enterprise’s best moments. But it was too late. All the complaints had reached a pinnacle. But IMO, I think the barrage of excuses:
“Trek has run its course”
“We’ve done over 700 episodes. Star Trek needs a break.”

and the like had killed the series. They gave up on it.

I really wanted them to do mini-series. Release one every year. Who doesn’t love a Space Adventure show!?! C’mon!

I may have meant Season 4, not Season 3 above. Was the Xindi arc part of of Season 3?

Heck ya. Bring it on!!

Xindi was Season 3. I figured you meant Season 4 in your previous post. As you can see, I changed it for you. Hope you don’t mind. :smiley:

Audra, like someone (and I’m evidently too lazy to read back upthread again!) already said, you articulated a shared uneasiness a lot of us have about Archer well.

Unlike Thot, I loved the Xindi arc - in the special features on the season 3 discs one of the producer people talked about how they had decided to basically do one big season-long story, and even though there were bits and pieces that didn’t fit quite right (there’s an episode where I just kept thinking to myself, wow, Archer is so not Picard of “Chain of Command”). I do agree, though, that season 4 seemed to be Enterprise finally getting it, only to be done. Oh, well.

Trip, meh. I see why he’s an appealing character to a lot of people, and I grew to dislike him less, but I never really liked him. T’Pol, as I’ve said before, is one of my all time favorite Trek characters. And I had high hopes for Hoshi…

I don’t like the theme song, but I like the idea of it. I’ll admit by season 4 I sang along, out of habit (the times I didn’t mute the credits because spouse was glaring at me). And I loved the mirror universe version :wink:

I can’t wait to hear your thoughts as the series progresses!

In my opinion Bakula didn’t do that bad a job as Archer. He was playing Star Fleet’s first captain of a star ship. His character had no one preceding to have set an example for his command. And Bakula had to perform knowing Star Trek history and it’s captains and he couldn’t be like the captains we know cause they didn’t exist yet. He knew he was setting precedent for future command candidates, which would explain his wooden performance sometimes. I mean, how well do you perform your job knowing that everyone is watching your every move to base their future actions/decisions on? I’d be screaming “Stop looking at me!” and turning into a complete paranoid frak up. :slight_smile:

I liked Enterprise, lots. I wasn’t particularly fond of them creating new “evil” species for the time war (Suliban) and the Xindi story lines, they should have stuck with aliens that already existed in the ST 'verse. And I wish they had handed over the writing reins to Manny Coto long before Season 4…it would have been around longer if they had.

I don’t have much to say here because I’ve only seen a handful of episodes that this time, but I really enjoy the show. I’m recording all I can find on SyFy and might try and find some DVDs.

Right now the doctor is my favorite character. He’s so upbeat, but not in a cheesy way. He’s also very practical, which I think balances the captain’s emotions well.

I look forward to watching more episodes.

I think Phlox is my favorite of the trek doctors (besides Bones, who is made of cranky ossim), and even though at first he seemed overly cheery (in my head, "oh no, not Neelix again), by the end of the show he was one of the characters I always happy to see. I think part of that is because of everybody on the ship, he seemed the character who was the most sure of himself and his identity – Archer constantly questioning what it means to be a starship captain out there on the new frontier, T’pol questioning what being a Vulcan means, etc.

I’m sort of on the fence about the Xindi. It was a neat change to have a season-long story arc in a Trek show, and I think it was fairly well done all things considered. But I also agree with a lot of the other posters that creating a new race, a new part of space, and a whole new event in starfleet history was a big wasted opportunity: why not have a season-long arc about the conflict between Romulus and Starfleet? Well established but never shown.

I take a lot of crap for it but I personally liked the Enterprise series. My favorite is NG but I loved DS9, voyager and Enterprise…

There I said it, and I not ashamed (kind of)…

I enjoyed it greatly myself, I enjoyed the Xindi arc. The final season had some really good stories as well, except for the “end with a wimper” series finale. Personally I was always hoping for a “stolen shield technology” episode, to show how desperate the pre-federation could have been. I guess the kind of hinted it in the episode Sleeping Dogs when Malcom comments on the “Photonic Torpedo” that the klingon ship had in it’s armory, and they used them to escape the gas giant. A couple of seasons later, they have Photon torpedos that have finally “been developed” by Starfleet. Then of course we find that Malcom was recruited to work for the “mysterious” section of Starfleet, (pre Section 31 it seems to be hinted at). Maybe he did upload the specs for the tech…
Rambling on, it was a great show, not enough decontamination scenes, though it looked like they rotated everyone through (even the dog!!). T’pol was HOT!!

Manny Cotto rocked the final season’s socks off. I wish he had been given cart blanche earlier, but it took Brandon/Bragga ‘giving up’ on the show for it to get really good.

I was completely satisfied with the ‘explanation’ about TOS vs. movie/TNG Klingons, the fate of the Defiant, and the establishment of the Romulan ‘sneaky’ nature. The Enterprise books have gotten quite good too, especially the three that chronicle the Romulan War. They tie aspects of Enterprise into the canon very nicely, with completely buyable explanations for:

  1. TOS ‘A Piece of the Action’
  2. The primitive looking bridge/tech of TOS
  3. How the appearance of the Romulans could really be hidden so effectively so long

These were things I was ready to hand-wave off as ‘that’s just the way it is’, but the authors made them right.

I totally agree with what Thunder said. Manny Coto and the fourth season were fantastic.

I think I’ve said this elsewhere but [i]Enterprise[/i] felt desperate. It started out ok and I was really impressed with the episode ‘The Andorian Incident’. Many of the first season episodes felt like rejected Voyager episodes, though. I did not enjoy the Temporal Cold War or Xindi arc to be honest. I had given up on watching during its first run since I felt jaded. I heard from many that Enterprise was interesting again because of the the Xindi arc. So, I checked it out but it didn’t really win me over. This is where the desperate notion solidified. Enterprise felt like a desperate friend trying to impress. Do you want action? Here’s action. Do you want gritty? Here is gritty. Do you want <<corporate suit catchphrase>>? Please love us!!

As Thunder put it, once Braga/Berman gave up and handed the show over to Coto. Enterprise really hit its stride and started to capture what made it interesting in the first and second season. The finale (written by Braga/Berman) felt like a jilted lover’s revenge. It was an incredible slap in the face.

Star Trek as a whole is not just a show, it is a relationship. It is family. You can bitch about it, laugh with it, and cry with it. It can disappoint or build you up. It doesn’t matter. It has my unconditional love. When I hear folks rant about it or judge me for loving it, I’m fine with that. That is like their problem, man. My relationship with Star Trek is what matters. When you find folks that interact with Star Trek the same way, you’ll know immediately. It’s the best feeling in the world.

I’m probably not the best educated Trek person to comment, but as a non-Trek die hard, I loved Enterprise. Sure, I haven’t watched DS9 or all of TNG, but I grew up watching reruns of TOS and I just liked Enterprise from the first episode I laid eyes. Dr Ploxx is my favorite character by far and any episode with him was a favorite. Perhaps because I had little Trek baggage to drag around, I found Enterprise satisfying, but I bought the series on DVD, which is a sign.

Andorians are my favorite aliens in the series. I agree that the final episode was disappointing, but overall, it was a great way to spend many hours.