Enterprise discussion

With a desire to better understand Deep Space Nine, Solai started a thread for DS9 discussion. I have really enjoyed reading it and figured I’d start a thread for each of the series. So have at 'em!

To say Star Trek took a step backwards would be too literal. Out of all the series this one was the most disjointed. They never got their stride or the leeway of the “three season suck” rule of previous series. They fell flat on their face with a Temporal War. Tried bringing in other aspects from other seasons then tried a “24” full season arc and finally brought in some professional fans to finish out the series.

IMO, I can’t watch the finale. Yeah you heard it from the man who has watched ‘Spock’s brain’ several times. I cannot watch the finale of Enterprise. It is disrespectful to all involved, the cast, previous series, and the fans.

So bring on your thots about Enterprise.

time travel is way over done period. and to open a seires with an arch of time travel is just senseless. I know they do the time travel so that they can have a emergency button to bring people from the old shows back to rescue the new show, but it was just horrible.

with B&B at the helm, Trek stopped being an ensemble show and there was very little character development. A pitty, for a show with a good budget and good actors.

Take away the season with the war against the major threat to the Federation that we never heard about… and I like the show. Mostly the 4th season thou.

I loved:

  1. Any episode dealing with Andorians

  2. Borg Episode

  3. Romulan episodes

  4. The one where T’pol goes to 1950’s earth

  5. and the whole 4th season.

  6. the portrayal of the Vulcan/Human government relationship

  7. All the characters except Malcolm and Travis

  8. Macos (trek non-cannon geek manuals had them for years and we always wanted to see them)

everything else, is ok… but not worth bragging about.

I hated:

  1. … the klingon saying he “could see his house from here” pretty crappy.
  2. everything about the suliban
  3. Every season finale they ever had
  4. Travis and Malcolm ( I felt malcolm was whiney and Travis wasn’t interesting… he was just like Harry Kim, boreing. the most interesting thing about Kim was that he was friends with paris, travis doesn’t even get that. Bad writers! )

This dates back from the movies, but I hated the ret-conning of the human/vulcanian (hey, I’m old skool) relationship. The original idea was that these various groups had achieved a relatively approximate tech level at the same time, and some got together (Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, even Tellorites) and some hadn’t. It worked particularly well with the Vulcans, because their concerns were more internal than external. Nice contrast. Profound, one might say.

Scrap that, and let’s pretend that they are our mentors that we somehow outpace? Lame.

I guess because we out breed them. The only do it once every 7 years and live for 250 yeas. A society that doesn’t do it… is generaly unmotivated in all aspects of life. Like building, exploreing, expanding, doing anything real… excpet try to squash that inner rage that builds from never doing it!

we are always trying to one-up every body … going back to the playground and the high school dance… because we do it!!! all the time!!!

As one of the few voices that support Enterprise I know I need to present my case.

For me personally Enterprise fulfilled the broken promise of DS9 and Voyager. Here space was dangerous, gritty and real. It was certainly not perfect, but it held my interest for its entire run.

Before I break down the characters there is one component that this show had even through all of its faults: it had soul. It had character. There was a joy in what was being done that I responded to. People try to pigeon hole it as, “another attempt to beat cash out of the dead horse” and that might be true. For me the show falls on the side of Scifi that sits with Firefly, Alien/s and BSG. Unapologetic. To the point. Slightly raw. With heart.

A Characters:
Captain Archer was a noble character with perhaps a bit too much optimisim and wide-eyed approach…he was a good man, but certainly no Picard.

T’Pol fit the well tread role of Vulcan science officer also filling the eye-candy roll Six-of-Nine taught the franchise was a key component of any successful show.

Trip: For me, Trip was the heart of the show. He was passionate about his work, loyal, funny and a good person. He is they guy I would have a beer with and trust to watch my two-year-old daughter.

B Characters:
Dr. Phlox: Should have annoyed me and somehow never managed to. The token alien the actor took the right approach with him, mixing the serious with the occasionally smirkishness (yes, that’s a word…now)

Malcolm Reed: Malcolm came into his own later on. In the beginning he really didn’t have much to do, but blossomed in the war stories and exploration of his family military heritage

Mayweather/Sato: I group them as, well, perhaps together they make half an interesting character. Mayweather was the boy wonder in a man’s body, another wide-eyed optimist that reminded us that there is a certain wonder that is necessary when being in space. Sato was the one trick pony of figuring out alien dialects who never really had a fully realized character.

The show was at its best when it explored the Star Trek universe in a “Rosencrantz and Guildernstern” sort of way. Laying the groundwork for the Khan story (and twisting in the groundwork for Data was a masterful twist) which also worked to explain the lack of ridges on Star Trek TOS series…brilliant. Kudos to them.

Whether you liked the longer arc story of the war it was a calculated risk to change the fundamental way they told stories and for me, they were successful.

I look forward to your thots and responses.

You’re absolutely right, Trip was the heart of the show.

Dear Doctor is a fabulous episode.

This happened in the fourth season when they hired some really talented Trek fans. There are two ways to look at this. WOW! fans writing for a show and HUH? fans writing for a show. Personally I thot they were well done episodes.

EDIT: The staff of Judith Reeves-Stevens, Garfield Reeves-Stevens, Manny Coto and Michael Sussman really would have worked if given the chance.

I like the idea of the war story arc… i just didn’t like the villians. If it had been Klingons, Romulans, or Tzencathi, or something else original… I would have liked it. But those guys were just stupid.

I like the characters of T’pol, Archer, Trip, and Phlox a Lot. ( i expected Phlox to be Neelix and was pleasantly suprised when he wasn’t)

I like Hoshi as much as I like Uhurah or Nurse Chapel… someone who was cute and when they let her, served a purpose.

I have already ranted about the others…

I really hated the time travel to 40’s era earth with the Nazi/aliens occupying the east coast. They could have done better than that, c’mon.

A lot of this is a bunch of nitpicks, but I find myself likeing the show overall.

I’ve seen one episode of Enterprise ever, so I apologize for not addressing the topic :wink:

But Solai, that what you say there is exactly how I feel about DS9. It’s uncanny.

RDM was a fan when he started writing for TNG… So I think they should have gone to what they did in Season 4 first.

The most interesting part about Enterprise was actually the human/vulcan politican struggle. Vulcans in the Enterprise era wasn’t the same as the Vulcans we are used to in TOS and TNG. I belived the Enterprise should have been sent to Vulcan on diplomatic missions early on, and show Archer’s discomfort with the Vulcans. The Vulcans’ dismay with T’Pol and so on. And really show us that these Vulcans are different and less enlightened than the future Vulcans.

Because they way the Vulcan issue was treated gave me a feeling of “too many fans are complainning about the way we protrayed the Vulcans… we better explain it”. Had some of the season 4 sweetness been spread around it would have made a much better story. And the

I still thing the temporal cold war killed the series from the start. And when they realize it wasn’t working, they turned to the Xindi, which were pretty lame as well. In terms of introducing new enemies, I still think DS9 did the best job with the Dominion. DS9 really eased it in. First you hear this “Dominion” in passing dialogs. Then gradually realize how much threat they can be.

Instead, Enterprise just had the Xindi digging a really big swimming pool in Florida…

I tried so hard to get into Enterprise…I just struggled with it so much.

First I never liked the Xindi, and that is all I have to say about that.

I liked Archer, and Tripp and T’Pol and the Tripp and T’Pol thing but that was it.

I really disliked the ship, it violated so much of the history that we knew. The story lines were week, and I guess I didn’t like it.

Maybe with this new movie they can Star Trek can start again!

I tried getting into Enterprise for 2 seasons, but finally gave up on it.
I’m inspired to try again and just watch the entire series.

Just a heads up all:
Looks like there’s an Enterprise marathon on Skiffy today.

I was supposed to goto the gym three hours ago… but I have been watching Enterprise!!! I really have to say that other than Xindi episodes, great series. ALSO, the episode where the humans were living on an old west planet was super awsome. best episode of trek in years.

there have been some great episodes today. If your missing it… you should get off your ass and DVR this shiz!

And after so many people complained about it, they mixed in some up-tempo accoustic guitar, actually making it WORSE! Season 4 was the only season really worth watching, with inspired, multiple-episode arcs dealing with Arik Soong, ancestor of Data’s creator Noonien Soong, Earthling xenophobes, Vulcan civil discord, and the best episodes ever which show us the Mirror Universe version of characters and events. It all culminates in a finale that features Next Generation characters prominently, which I thought was AWESOME, though many were unhappy with this. Never quite understood why.

I agree with many of the posters before. I really likes some of the characters, especially Archer, Trip and T’Pol. In contrast, I really never connected with the characters from Voyager.

I also admit that the early seasons were really uneven and was disappointed with the temporal war. I wanted to see the years that preceded the time we knew for its own right. I didn’t need it to directly tie in with time travel.

It was a shame that right when it was coming into its own with season 4 it got cancelled. I had hoped for insight into the Romulan war, but then again it would have been difficult to show on TV as it had previously been established that the Federation and Romulans never met face to face during the entire skirmish. Also, to be denied actually witnessing the formation of the Federation was quite a downer…

awhile back i also tried again. I rewatched season 4 first, which was the best and i still can’t make it through too many episode before picking up the remote to skip many episodes… When I got to season 2 I just gave up again…

most of them were so event driven, without any kind of character development. Even characters heavily featured, like captain Archer was so flat… I am a huge fan of Quantum Leap. It does without saying I really like Scott Bakula. But it was so hard to like captain archer when the character only reacts to things crapping out on him.

It was until first episode after the Xindi war, when Archer went rock climbing with the other woman captain, that they really let Scott show case his acting skills. The only time he ever showed complex character development, losing of faith in the spirit of exploration. That was great! If only they was spread through out the series…

The only other times that I actually feel like Captain Archer is more than just a 2D character, was in the Vulcan civil war. Out of 4 seasons…

I had a hard time watching any episode with time travel or Xindi… which unfortunately made up most of the series. I mean the only reason the writers/producers would dive in and spend so much time of such themes is that they’ve learned nothing from Voyager. So oblivious that they thought fans actually enjoyed that aspects of Voyager…

They took out the strength of Voyager, which was very thought provoking episodes, like “Death Wish”, “Tuvix”, “Nemesis”, and left all the plot driven episodes. Thinking that fans stuck by Voyager’s horrendous, indulgent, season 7 because they’ve discovered how to take thinking out of Trek.

Sums up ‘Enterprise’ flaw perfectly.

I have to kinda diasagree. T’pol and Trip and Phlox actually got character development ( either that or sci-fi just singles those episodes out) . The other characters didn’t. I agree with the stated except for Trip and T’pol.

But that is the trek problem. the alien ( or the Borg Chick, or the android) get ALL the character development and the others rarely do.

Well have to say all the criticism is warranted . It did have bright spots. Got real kick how they showed the difference in the mirror universe. Dang defiant giving them upper hand. The finale idea was good. The execution was atrocious.

They thought lets give them another hot war to fight and that will bring in the audience. That fell flatter the splat! The early style phasers and makos were great to see. The explanation of the hybrid klingons and the new Eugenics Humans got me for awhile.

If we could have just forgotten the first 3 seasons there may have been a good series there.