Their last name was Adams.
That depends on the hypothesis and the situation tho. The hypothesis being what makes a person human, is it the soul, or the body?
Frankly, there is no answer to that. Even if you fall back to religion, there is simply no definitive proof for either way.
So it comes down to the situation being proposed. Where in DS9, replacing the brain makes a personal less human. And in Caprica, Zoe’s completely lost of body does not make her less human.
These two situations comes with some assumptions coming from each scifi. So they should be dealt separately. The way to do it is to reverse the situations. If in DS9, replacing brain with a positronic brain didn’t make the person less human or less like himself, then should the decision be made to let him die anyway, just because there’s no biological brain left?
Yeah. When I watched ‘Second Chances’ for the first time, I wondered, “How would I handle meeting myself?”
One time I asked a friend about cloning and souls. He answered, “I think God would give each clone a new soul.” I thot that was interesting.
As I look on my hard drive I have several copies of certain documents:
talosbunny1
talosbunny2
talosbunnywhut
At one time they were exac-T-ly identical. Since then, they have taken on a new life.
We define our lives by the natural order. Once that order changes we must adapt to it. /soapbox
To answer the question “at what point is that not you?”; I think the moment of creation. Once that copy is made it is a new person, seperate and unique. It will occupy a different realm of space than you. It is subject to a whole new set of parameters. If you (Alpha) die, you’re dead but Beta will continue. What creates the drama and conflict is how the rest of the world will relate to Beta. How will my wife and daughters feel?
Buddhism says the concept of “SELF” is an illusion. The question of “at what point is that not you” is easy to answer when you had a copy and they both evolved into other things. You might say the original one is true self, the clone is not the same as self.
Like Thomas Riker getting stranded on the planet, and Williamd Riker went back to the starship. They are different, and it’s easy to make up that decision.
However it gets complicated when only one copy is left.
For example, your had a file named talosbunny1. Now without changing it, you saved it as talosbunny2, and deleted talosbunny1. talosbunny2’s content is exactly the same as talosbunny1, should it be treated as a continuation of talosbunny1, or should it be treated differently because the file called talosbunny1 no longer exist?
In the case of Zoe’s avatar, before Zoe’s ceased to exist, Zoe linked with her Avatar, leaving the avatar pretty much as herself. Should the avatar now be treated differently, and treated as a machine even though the only difference is the lack of a body?
Take this further, we already have the concept of resurrection in the world of BSG. Is Boomer or Athena a different entity every time they died?
In case of Starbuck, should she be treated differently just because everyone knew that she died? So she should be treated like a copy and a thing?
I see it this way:
Which is, just like Daniel.
She might be dead, but that isn’t her problem, because she’s dead. She doesn’t feel pain or anything.
If you miss her and could have an exact copy to replace her, then why not? The only problem you could have with that is if you would have a problem with that. Inherently, there wouldn’t be a problem.
(But having a teenage girl in a freaky metal robot is still creepy.)
I disagree.
If you could take the best doctors in the world and make surethey could live forever just think about how much they could help…
i just wanna say… doesn’t matter what your view is, just by seeing the kind of conversation Caprica inspired, you should know that it is every bit as good as BSG…
well… minus the space battle…
Or inversely take the best serial killer in the world…well see that’s the problem with immortality. Bad people want it/would get it too
I think we’ve got more centurion action to replace the space battles.
Did anyone else think about the battle demonstration “ooh, aren’t you a tough guy slaughtering those defenseless little drones”?
Then you just take the best cop and give it to him too.
I’m joking though, Noone should live forever. It’s not right.
I think when you’re dealing with the death of a copy it becomes a matter of the Kara that was and the Kara that is. To the rest of the world she never left. She’s a copy, like the talosbunny1, talosbunny2 analogy.
The real issues take form when there is a talosbunny1 and talosbunny2 occupying the same universe. The movie Multiplicity dealt with this in a funny way.
I understood Boomer or Athena better I guess because I looked at it as their already cylons and each with their own personality. I guess that was in the BSG and now we’re adding on the Caprica World. It’s harder to see a person trying to bring his dead daughter back to life. I get that he’s grief can make him do things that would be border line, or crossing the line based on how you see it. it’s a great question that will never end, with the knowledge our world is learning every year I see this being a question that will be in our sociality soon and be with us a long time.
Why wouldn’t he? I know if I had the means to get someone I love back from the dead, especially if they were murdered, I would. Think about it, accidents happen all the time. If I fatally slipped and fell down a flight of stairs, I’d want someone to upload me back into a body.
Wait, you mean Bill Adama was supposed to be 69-73 years old during BSG? I never got the sense of him being that old. Huh…
Now, where is this leak?
Yeah. Eddie was only 56 when the mini-series aired.
ETA: I can’t find out how old the actor playing young William Adama is. Battlestar Wiki says 9 years old.
math hurts my brain
Just this morning I also thought that to myself.
Dude’s old.
“It’s the writing, stupid”
What I mean by that is that it obviously serves the story if the boy is a bit older to begin with.
Cybernetic Lifeform Node -> Cylon !? ouch… Well that’s a clumsy backronym.
I just know that one life is good enough for me. I was talking to my wife about a hour ago in the hot tub. It’s just my belief. as far as the show it gives a good start to the cylons.
Are we meant to believe that the clone of zoe is literally zoe greystone reborn, or more like a cylon copy where they look the same but are completely different personalities?
on a side note, in caprica bill adama supports the c-bucks as his father does, but in bsg we see that adama is a picon panthers fan, so we’ll see if that switch comes up, maybe showing a break between him and his father at some point.
I was clearly stated that it is an exact copy of her mind, but it isn’t herself.
Just like Thomas Riker, Adam Gibbons in the 6th day, or the Michael Keaton comedy.
Which leads back to the question of, what is identity?
She was a copy of all those lists of mumbo jumbo from where you can get data to make another person.
But an exact reborn, no.
I think they are slipping in their usual metaphysical stuff with that whole blood scene about how the copy could “feel” original Zoe’s death and then the blood vanished.
Yeah, I imagine there will be some divisions as to whether new Zoe is a plain and ordinary scientifically created copy of all of Zoe’s medical records, scans, test scores, etc etc…or if she is somehow being tinkered with by “It” to be more than just a program.