This is like debate club forum posting. If you don’t have passion and conviction in your point of view and willingness to put it out there for comment why bother? I’ve enjoyed looking and lurking on this forum for quite a long time now,with the ending of BSG finally motivating me to post. You have over 1,000 posts so post or don’t post but please don’t do the self censorship I won’t let the other guy drag me down post.
I’m not here to debate—I am here to discuss a show I care deeply about, and perhaps hear some interesting theories. Mostly, I like hearing what other Sci-Fi stuff people are into to. I don’t trust myself to respond to one of the posts on here without inflaming folk. If other people want to go that route, fine.
With all due respect, please don’t tell me how to post. I have already have had a shitty enough day. I decided due to this general all-around shitiness, I didn’t need any more of it. Can we just leave it at that? I reacted without thinking. Thank you.
By the way, sincerely, welcome to the forum. 
–jake
I hear ya there.
I know I wasn’t on the side of cheering at Boomer’s death, but for all the people that currently are, I wonder if the full DVD version will change anyone’s mind, since apparently there are quite a few more Boomer flashbacks from her early days as a rookie on Galactica. In the context of the full episode I’m guessing that people won’t find it as easy to demonize her.
Apparently (according to the alternate plotline for Season 4.5 explained in the final RDM podcast) Tory originally had a much larger and more nuanced position. It fell by the wayside though when things changed away from Ellen being on Cavil’s side. As it was I was just “huh, that was idiotic of Tyrol”; she was such a non-entity for so long that I didn’t have any strong reaction to her own death per se, just to the results of it.
Edit: Oh yeah, and uhhh, I just noticed the thread title, and not to be pedantic, but “there” = a location, you need “their” (ie. signifying belonging-to).
Seeing Boomer get killed was a really sore point for me in the episode. I’m sure lots of people hate Boomer now because of the fourth season, but the writers never explained what changed Boomer given what we saw previously. Part of the problem is that little reason is given for the changes. Why would Boomer side with Cavil when they were directly opposed to each other on New Caprica? And was New Caprica Boomer’s call? Before Season 4, from what I saw, Boomer had no say on New Caprica. Caprica Six did (much to the detriment of her fellow Six’s from the looks of things) but Boomer was blatantly ignored when she talked about human casualties, the need to stop being butchers, and trying to stop the execution of the woman who murdered her on BSG and married her former lover. Season 4’s “I never realized New Caprica would go so bad” blatantly ignores what we’d seen on New Caprica with Boomer who ugred her people that they needed to “stop being BUTCHERS.” And they never explain any of Boomer’s later actions. Maybe it’s the same with Fakethena, she tripped on a sofa, and now she’s responsible for all the bad crap that every happened…
First of all, this all a very nice pretty speech from someone several times removed from the situation itself. It’s very easy to say all of this without being faced with the killer of your wife at the moment you found out they did it. Most people allow due process to take care of it because they do not have immediate access to the person having committed the act. Most people also, have not had their entire life ripped to shreds & their entire identity wiped away in the matter of a few years. Personally, I think your analysis does not take into consideration the reality of the situation. It’s also pretty cold blooded IMO.
The chief reacted emotionally in the heat of the moment. It DOES happen. As for Athena, Boomer had proven to be a danger to her child more than once. You’d be surprised at the things a mother will do to protect her child.
personally, I was not cheering at either of these instances. When Boomer was shot, I understood Athena’s reasons for doing it. I also felt a profound sadness that such a tortured character came to such an end. When i realized Chief was actually going to kil Tory, I certainly was not cheering, but I didn’t feel sorry for her either. She made her bed, she had to lie in it.
In the end I’m reminded of what D’Anna said before they got to the Cylon’s “Earth”. “They will never forgive us for what we did to the colonies, never!” Base human emotions & reactions are not rational, nor are they pretty. They just are, both instances showed that base nature, from cylon’s. Which in itself is telling.
I suspect those cheering here would not be cheering in a real life similar situation. It’s much easier to do from her living room watching a compelling work of fiction.
Got you pinned down now, Old Timer: >>> Lazarus Long
[The Arrogant Sandstorm. Well, that shoe has been fitted in another thread, may as well accept it here too…]
Don’t deny it.
Most people allow due process to take care of it because they do not have immediate access to the person having committed the act.
Not sure about this. I would suggest it is because most people live in a reasonably civilised society, and over the period of thousands of years of civilisation the act of taking a human life is mostly viewed reprehensibly. And not conducted easily - even in the presence of great stress and trauma.
[Of course, if trained and desensitised, and dehumanised, and depersonalised as is necessary for those who physically wage war and/or conduct violence for a living, then the veneer of of civilisation can be easily stripped away.]
It’s also pretty cold blooded IMO.
Thank you. I strive to make rational decisions, and not allow frail human emotions to influence me overly.
The chief reacted emotionally in the heat of the moment. It DOES happen. As for Athena, Boomer had proven to be a danger to her child more than once. You’d be surprised at the things a mother will do to protect her child.
Chief = many times idiot. Don’t get me wrong: I always liked him. I am a many times idiot too, taken in by emotions, made horrid decisions. I can relate. But, on top of all the other stupid things he had done, killing Tori was another plan not thought out quite clearly.
As for Athena = a history of cold-blooded murder when her child was already safe.
But this was not my point. I was disturbed at the level of hate aimed at Tori yet not at others even more culpable. Was this because she was dark-skinned? A woman? Not weak like girls should be? Or because she was seemingly-unrepentant? (Ahhhh… closer now I think.)
I suspect those cheering here would not be cheering in a real life similar situation. It’s much easier to do from her living room watching a compelling work of fiction.
I really hope you are correct. But when I see mobs around courthouses, or the glee expressed when criminals are executed in some countries, I fear… Vengeance… revenge… the cycle of violence… Hang on… does this sound familiar??? LOL.
This was my underlying point…
That is the point, there wasnt’ a “plan” behind it at all.
As for Athena = a history of cold-blooded murder when her child was already safe.
You’re going to have to rpovide instances of this because other than this one, I don’t recall any.
What a great discussion!!
I will admit that while watching the episode Friday night, I did indeed jump off the couch and cheer when Chief killed Tory. I thought what Tory did to Cally was awful.
After a few days to think about it, while I am still glad Chief knew the truth and I am not surprised he killed her, I think Tory was left hung out to dry. There was no way for her to be redeemed. Tory’s character never really developed. If we knew more about Tory and her contribution to the larger story and being one of the FF, maybe we would have been more invested in her. Once Tory found out she was a Cylon, she changed, yet we do not know enough about her to understand her motivations. Maybe flirting with Chief was in fact some of her memories coming back…what’s missing is why I should be invested in Tory.
Athena killing Boomer. Well, I was indifferent although I expected it. I have been asking for awhile now when is Athena getting involved in the larger storyline regarding Cylon mythology, Hera’s potential role, her fears over Hera’s safety, etc. I’m talking more involved than killing Natalie. Again, with a few days to think about it, I wonder if Athena truly wanted to move on/away from being a Cylon and focus on her life with Helo and Hera. (I realize this is not a new idea, I’m just slow, obviously.). I believe Athena hoped if she was true to her word, and true to Helo/Adama/etc. that she could separate herself from her past.
Hopefully I have made some sense. Thanks for reading.
How about “Boomer and Tory: Finally meet their end!!!”??
I bet that’s one everybody can agree on.
Er …
You do realize people are reacting to a television show, yes? I mean, no one here is surrounding an actual courthouse. No one here was actually waving pitchforks at real criminals? This is a television show. I think your reaction is a bit strong all things considered.
dxf, well said.
I meant to include this, about Boomer, in my earlier post: I was indifferent about Boomer dying. I figured it would happen. I believe Boomer finally did realize what she believed and how, given the option to make different choices, she would have lived her life. She finally had the courage to have “a mind of her own.” It was just too late.
I don’t know if its been mentioned in this thread or not, but as it turns out Athena really did end up assasinating Natilie 6 for no apparent reason. The affinity Hera had for 6’s is that she ‘knew’ that one was going to save her eventually, and in fact return her to Athena and not take her away. I guess that’s the problem about reacting to prophesy before it’s all played out…
“Oops. My bad.”
I really wanted to see more of Leoben also - he was absent for much of the last several episodes. Ron Moore said in the podcast that he actor wasn’t available much during the time they were shooting - too bad though, I think they could have done some great things with his character.
I also felt terrible for the chief. He was up there as one of my favorite characters - such a stand-up guy, an everyman. I did not really begruge him killing Tory in that moment - he had just been betrayed by Boomer, had previously found out that he had been betrayed by Callie and Nicky wasn’t his son - I think we are meant to believe that this additional betrayal of Tory’s just sent him completely over the edge - hence hanging out in the Scottish highlands for the rest of his life (alone). It was not the ending I would have hoped for for the character (not quibbling with how RDM did it - like life, sometimes it is kind of random what events cause some people to have happy lives and what events cause others to not have happy lives and BSG always tries to show the cold hard realities of life) - but karmically-speaking - Baltar lives happily ever after with Caprica Six and Tyrol dies alone - where is the justice in that?
The Six we call Natalie.
Ummm… yes, Appaullo, I am aware this is a TV show. And no, of course there are no ‘peasants of GWC’ and flaming torches at the gates of the castle.
My point was more of a general social commentary: highlighting the joy, the sheer pleasure many people were feeling at the supposed ‘justice’ in Tori’s demise.
And I do see that same glee, that same voracious delight at the exacting of revenge, whether it be in bombing Iraq, or on the steps of courthouses as accused cover their faces, or in the satisfaction demonstrated when social transgressors are judicially murdered. So many people seem to be so happy when other people die. <shakes head>
Call me a barbarian, but I enjoyed watching Chief choke the piss out of Tory.
I think the problem with Tory is that her killing Cally is about the only interesting thing the character did. Plus, we didn’t see her feeling the least bit bad about until a minute before she stuck her hand in the goo.