And It Will Serve Adama Right!!!

Before I begin I want to say it has been a long time, things in a good way have been nuts for me. A new position at work, I bought my first house ect ect. I have always kept up with the pod casts but not so much the forum. But I couldn’t rest until I vented this…

It was said best by the Admiral’s son in The Captain’s Hand. “command is about people.” That would be a lesson Adama would be wise to learn, however it might be way too late.

If anyone is treading the “people” like “Cylon machines” right now it is the two people at the top of the fleet, Admiral Adama and the so called never once elected president Laura Roslin. How much of this could have been avoided had they just listened, and had a simple conversation with their legal government. Had Adama gone to the Quorum and said, hey this technology can save our lives; and these Cylons with us are very much a kindred spirit then this whole mess might have worked out very differently. Hell I bet even someone could have found scripture of the 13 Kobal tribes reuniting. This would have not only have stopped the Vice President in his tracks, but he might even had gone along with it. But instead they put him into a position that he feels he must do something to stop the madness.

Laura Roslin once told Billy that the democracy will survive William Adama, but will it? Will is survive Laura Roslin? Look at what he and they are doing now.

I first want to know were Bill Adama gets off thinking that his word is the word that the fleet must follow. Where did the Adama go that lived in episode 33, the Adama that was going to let a ship leave the fleet? I haven’t gone and re-watched it but when Roslin calls him on it he said if there is a ship captain that thinks they can do better I won’t stop him.

What would happen in the United State or Canada or in other “free nations” if the highest ranking member of the military would arrest a member of the government without charge or legal cause. Joe Biden look out. What if our Generals said they wouldn’t allow Barrack Obama to be president? Is the fleet just a new banana republic now? One step above a gang and as Lee Adama called it? Would have a Commander Lee Adama of the Pegasus let the Admiral do this if he still had his more powerful Battlestar? Where is he now to again say that Admiral Stars don’t give him the right?

I can write for hours listing the charges against them, as I have other times in the past but I won’t. We have all seen it. We all know it, and on the pod cast we have talked about it. Enough is enough, this far “Adamlin” and no further. Adama needs to be stopped and Roslin just needs to go off and die. I hate to say that but it is true. Adama was just fine listening to the office of the president when she made him an Admiral. I kept having flashbacks to the episodes when Adama was shot and the “old” Tigh was in charge and fraking thing up.

I hope the munity is a success. I hope Adama goes right out an airlock. At least Roslin knows her time has come and gone.

Personally I disagree but you are entitled to your opinions.

I see this whole thing as what Zarek does best, causing a public uproar against whoever is in charge to try and solidify his power. Was there this BS when the idea of blowing up the hub was put on the table? No. But put Zarek in charge, he fucks up the peace entirely.

The thing with arresting Zarek wasnt even until his actions resulted in the mutiny on the tyllium ship. Under the law Zarek created, the captain was allowed to have a cylon put the new jump drive on board, but the crew didnt like it so they killed the cylon, two marines, and took over the ship. And what did Zarek do? Nothing. He held their hands, gave them cookies, and said they were good little children. As acting president, he should have condemned violence against captains who follow their rights under the law or made the law a democratic thing amongst all ship crew/passengers.

Also, Zarek must have orchestrated the tyllium mutiny, how else would he know where they went? He wanted to be arrested. What a great show for the fleet of sheep. Turn the new leader into a martyr of military oppression.

I totally agree with you Chicken Pie Cylon that Zarek isn’t exactly innocent in the mess either, but I suppose more of what I am trying to say that Zarek is a monster of Adama’s and Roslin’s own making.

The ole Zeitgeist if you will, (see mom those 4 years of college did teach me something) Zarek’s power and more to the point, his “influence” over the civilians comes not from him, but from how the civilians have been treated by this “dictatorship.” Despite the despair that the rag tag fleet is in right now, if the people living in it felt they were being given a fair shake they wouldn’t be looking for genuine leadership elsewhere. And history has show than in the absent such leadership the masses will potentially follow anyone who can lead, such as the horrid Adolf Hitler.

I also should add this is not a new problem, if I can bring everyone back to the episode when the refining ship went on strike and Adama was going to “murder” Callie to get the Chief to end it. Given what happened to Callie I suppose the Chief should’ve let Adama shoot her. This at least would’ve exposed the Cain like monster Adama really has become to the rest of the human population that is left alive.

Adama is no longer leading, he is just ordering. He is saying I am the boss so you do what I say. Trust me as a man who has people in his charge in his own life that leadership style doesn’t work.

Please now don’t be offended by my response, and I would welcome more debate on the issue if you like or from anyone else that doesn’t agree me.

Paid for by people to elect someone other than Laura Roslin, who has never been elected herself.

I’m afraid I don’t have time to comment on the merits of the arguments here, but it’s really interesting to see how passionate folks are on both sides of the mutiny discussion, here and in other threads like the “Who’s the biggest douche” poll. I think it bespeaks well of the writing that people have such good arguments and strong feelings for both sides, mirroring what’s going on in the Fleet itself.

Except that, when it comes to these big issues, I am always right and anybody who disagrees with me is wrong. Right?

I’m with Chicken Pie on this one. If there were no discontent or fear Zarek wouldn’t have any power and wouldn’t be V.P. for that matter. He’s simply seizing and opportunity that he’s been waiting for. He wants to be worshipped as a hero and the only way to do that is to turn the fleet against itself. Gaeta is Zarek’s stooge and will be killed in this process; either by suicide or Anders will finish the job when Gaeta threatans Kara.

Don’t think I could disagree with you more than I do - still you are entitled to your opinion just like I am mine. It’s going to be a bumpy half a season here on GWC I think, based on the passion on both sides of this argument.

Has anyone considered the religious aspect in this whole situation? From the beginning, despite the fact that Laura Roslin was never elected and Adama was a disgraced admiral in charge of a flying museum, everyone has followed them and listened to what they said because they had religion on their side. I say everyone as a generalization, obviously not everyone agrees or else Zarek wouldn’t be an atagonist nor would he have a following, but people who are strong in their faith will do some amazingly irrational things, just look at the in-fighting in the Middle East that goes back a millenia.

While my feeling toward Roslin has thus far been one of indifference, the religious aspect of her Presidency has only been a matter of plot and drama for me but in the last few episodes of 4.0 and the first two episodes of 4.5, her weakness has really bothered me. Adama on the other hand has always had my sympathy because while Roslin seemed to be falling off the deep end this whole time, he’s always had the well-being of the Galactica and the fleet in mind, even if he hasn’t gone about it the right way. He knew he was a disgraced when given command of Galactica and now he’s being looked at by the entirety of what’s left of the human race to save them, not Roslin, she’s just the prophet, and he’s having difficulty handling it.

Yea, i gotta disagree also. I think Adama is totally in the rights for this. He is the Admiral of the fleet. He is thinking for the good of the fleet. He has knowledge that other members of the fleet do not have and has a much more guided decision. Splintering the fleet would lead to the ultimate death of everyone. By accepting the Cyoln technology they have significant chances of finding a planet they can live on. What Gaeta and Zerric are doing is effectively condemning the fleet to a long slow death.

Mr. Lister, do they really need the Cylon tech to find another planet? They found, Kobal, New Caprica, the Algae Planet, and Earth without the use of Cylon FTL’s. So why do they NEEEEED it now?

I also wanted to thank you for making a point Adama having information that the rest of the fleet doesn’t have. Because, if the military has information, then why doesn’t the “government.” I would like to point out here that the military serves “the polices” of the government but is not actually supposed to be “part” of the government. Adama himself makes a good point of that in the first season in a private conversation to “Dictator” Roslin. Saying to the effect it is the job of the military to fight the enemies of the state and when the military begins to police the people of said state then the enemies of the state become the people. He needs to give the information to his superiors, which in there society would seem to include the Quorum. However instead he keeps it to himself or only tells his girlfriend so they can keep their iron fist rule intact.

I am sure that Adama’s intentions are good, but then again the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He has become blinded by his own guilt for letting Baltar become president and the disaster of New Caprica that he feels he must hold the reigns and hold them tight to save the race. But in doing so he is strangling them slowly. Had he gone about this a better way, then perhaps many of his problems that he has now would had been avoided. Maybe we are seeing another reason why he was nothing more than a Commander in charge of an old antique when the attacks occurred?

Please keep the disagreements coming.

While its true that they don’t NEED the Cylon tech to find a new place to live, it would radically increase their chances of finding a place before their food and Tilium runs out. (all they really need to do is send Racetrack out and they should be good).

As for him having information and not the government. He did share the plan with the government. During the briefing with Lee it was brought up. He also tried to get Roslin in on it. If it was anybodys fault its Roslin’s. The fact that she is broken, giving up on life and everything she holds dear to her, means that she wasn’t there to act responsibility. That left Zerick to manipulate the situation.

And just to clarify something completely irrelevant. in the first two seasons, up to the election, Roslin was the legitimate and legal President. Its true she was never elected but following the rules of their society she was legit. I can agree that now she is not the most legit.

we don’t know that the captain of the tylium ship was ok with the boarding. It said that the crew mutinied… but that could have meant that Galactica was forceing the upgrades and the cerw ( captain included) mutined agaist them. “Mutiny” has been used in this series before to describe ships not going along with colonial/Adama authority. It isn’t clear weather Zarek is speaking with the Real captain or a mutinous captain on the wireless.

Adama’s saying that this was a militery issue is not really true. That would be a supreme court issue in todays military. Except that Zarek is executive branch and can directly order the militery to stand down on ANY issue. ( assumeing that they follow OUR model) Yes that’s right, our US VP can tell a General to cease opperations, and until the presedent comes forward and fixes the situation… the vp’s order is legal.

The real question is: Is Zarek in Command or Rosalyn. Is Rosylyn legaly incappacitated or not. She is off in la la land and not doing her job. This could all be solved if she did her job.

Or declared martial law and let Adama do his. After a couple of stiff drinks. A good teeth brushing. And a shave.

I’ve been sort of cheering for the mutineers, partly because I love Gaeta and Zarek and partly because I love this plotline. But they definitely have a point.

However, so does Adama. Especially after the New Caprica rescue, which really did a number on Galactica. And with the revelation of the final five, who HAVE proven that they’re trustworthy. I don’t trust the Seven, but I would trust at least Tyrol, Anders, and Tigh. And maybe even Ellen, if she comes back. (Don’t much trust Tory.)

Honestly, what I think Adama should have done a long time ago- or at least after the discovery of Earth- is declare martial law. They are at war; it’s an appropriate decision. Stop pretending it’s a democracy and just do it! That’s what’s the most disconcerting thing to me; Roslin and Adama want to have their cake and eat it, too (especially Adama).

I don’t want the mutineers to win, but I do want them to actually get through to Adama and Roslin that there are serious problems with the way they’re doing things. I’ll be curious as to how Adama reacts to Gaeta in the aftermath, as well. I feel fairly comfortable thinking Tom Zarek will die (I’m betting he blows himself and a lot of other people up), but Gaeta… if he dies, I suspect it will take a few episodes.

Also, Adama? You might REALLY want to look at your favoritism policy. Kara goes missing, you move heaven and earth to find her. Gaeta goes missing, and you can only be bothered to send a S&R raptor after Hoshi bugs Tigh about it for two days? (Couldn’t even leave a raptor at the coordinates you jumoed to?) And the poor guy is found on a Raptor of corpses, and I assume you’re buying his version of what happened given that he’s not in the brig, and you say, “oh, we can still trust the Cylons! It doesn’t matter than an Eight killed three people and tried to kill you! I’ll take the enemies’ side over yours, even though you’ve served under me for howevermany years. And maybe one day I’ll bother to investigate how you lost that leg.”

I’m not saying Gaeta’s justified in violence, but I really, REALLY get why this poor guy is resentful, and Adama’s set himself up for some of that on his own.

Yep! or let him do his thing! But you can’t lie and say you have democracy and wonder why the fleet expects it.

The important thing is that you believe that…:smiley:

And here I was thinking that posting on GWC was me procrastinating from studying separation of powers! :slight_smile: One of the problems the Fleet has had from the start is the very strange and tenuous power-sharing arrangement Roslin and Adama agreed to in the miniseries. It sounds great then–President handles civilian decision, Commander/Admiral handles military decisions–but it only works if the civilian and military heads can agree on whether a particular issue is civilian or military. There’s no third branch or third party who gets to make the call when the other two parties are deadlocked, which leads to situations like the one we see here, where the Quorum tells the people they have the right to keep Cylon technology off their ships and the Admiral tells them they don’t because it’s a military decision. Adama is probably the one overstepping his boundaries here, because even he admitted that the Cylon alliance with full citizenship was a political decision, but there’s nobody to tell him he’s gone too far. So, maybe Lee should’ve signed up to be Chief Justice of that new court he was forming instead of Quorum delegate, and we might’ve avoided some grief. :wink:

I agree. It seems like the general feeling is that Gaeta is marked for imminent demise, but I think it’s going to be Zarek who goes down and Gaeta who at least lingers for awhile. Zarek wouldn’t feel guilty or conflicted if the revolution gets ugly or fails, because that’s just who he is; Gaeta, on the other hand, I think would. So, in the grand BSG tradition of putting characters through as much pain as possible, Gaeta will live because that will probably be more painful for him than dying in the cross-fire.

And as much as I hate to say Baltar was right…Baltar was right about the emerging aristocracy, eh? There’s definitely a “first family” that Adama gives a heck of a lot of get-out-of-jail/trouble-free cards (Lee [after a lot of mutual emo, of course], Kara, Tigh, Helo, Laura post-“Home,” Athena post-“Occupation”) and then there are those whom he doesn’t (Tyrol, Baltar, Zarek, pretty much all civilians). Dee held a kind of odd position in between; Adama did seem to treat her like a daughter, but she never really needed the level of bailing out that Kara and Lee require quite often, so we never saw exactly how far that treatment ran. I can’t quite figure out where Gaeta falls in all this, either. Adama definitely doesn’t give him as much license or credence as Kara, but I guess we don’t really know what happened discipline-wise after Gaeta stabbed Baltar…yeah, I don’t know.

I can’t quite figure out where Gaeta falls in all this, either. Adama definitely doesn’t give him as much license or credence as Kara, but I guess we don’t really know what happened discipline-wise after Gaeta stabbed Baltar…yeah, I don’t know.

Well, my guess is Gaeta must not be very important in his eyes because I do not remember Anders getting any reprimand for shooting the leg of a superior officer. Or am I missing something.

Correct! (We should be in charge. Then things would get straightened out - pronto.)

The people who have all the answers better know all of the questions too. It’s always so easy to figure out the solutions to others’ problems, but it’s never as easy when you’re actually in charge. It’s kind of like watching a football game on TV, it’s really easy to see the gap the quarterback missed in the defensive line from 40 feet up, but think about it from his perspective, he’s wearing a helmet that gives him ten inches of visibility and he’s the one with over 1000 pounds of linemen bearing down on him.