And It Will Serve Adama Right!!!

[Old_Timer]

The people who have all the answers better know all of the questions too. It’s always so easy to figure out the solutions to others’ problems, but it’s never as easy when you’re actually in charge. It’s kind of like watching a football game on TV, it’s really easy to see the gap the quarterback missed in the defensive line from 40 feet up, but think about it from his perspective, he’s wearing a helmet that gives him ten inches of visibility and he’s the one with over 1000 pounds of linemen bearing down on him.

That’s pretty much what I meant (in the parens).

[Colonel_Forte]

Oh, um, sorry.

[Cavatar]

The post of the separation of powers and there being no third party, like a supreme court is a noticeable absence and a very good point. However with the ego of Adama I really don’t see him taking Zarek to court of the issue or any issue. It is easier to kidnap him under the cover of an arrest and hold him hostage against his will.

Also speaking of powers, Adama reports to the president of the Colonies and if there president is like the American president, Roslin would be the “Commander-In-Chief. That means military decisions should rest with her or whoever is the president at the time.”

If you go back to when Starbuck was missing in the first season, Tigh asks Roslin if she was going to order the then Commander Adama to leave, and then Tigh tells Roslin that she might have to. That there tells us that the military commanders report to the president. So when Adama disobeys orders from the Office of the President it is he who is committing munity at a time of war (punishable by death I assume). And it shouldn’t matter who the president is. It is funny how he listens to orders from President Lee Adama but not Tom Zarek.

Yes the Cylon tech is a very good idea, and Adama has a good intention in getting it, and making those Cylons citizens sits ok with me. But the poor man on the refining ship who has not had a day off since the first attack on the Colonies might not see it that way. I posted long ago about how Roslin could have used her office to aide in making a real economy and solved many of these problems that gives these poor people such unrest and make them more moldable to a leader like Zarek.

Adama right now is trying to push a string, and that is why his rule might be coming to a change or even an end. If it does end it will end for him likely in blood, and it will serve him, his president and his iron fist rule right.

[Mustitos]

Has anyone considered the religious aspect in this whole situation? From the beginning, despite the fact that Laura Roslin was never elected and Adama was a disgraced admiral in charge of a flying museum, everyone has followed them and listened to what they said because they had religion on their side. I say everyone as a generalization, obviously not everyone agrees or else Zarek wouldn’t be an atagonist nor would he have a following, but people who are strong in their faith will do some amazingly irrational things, just look at the in-fighting in the Middle East that goes back a millenia.

While my feeling toward Roslin has thus far been one of indifference, the religious aspect of her Presidency has only been a matter of plot and drama for me but in the last few episodes of 4.0 and the first two episodes of 4.5, her weakness has really bothered me. Adama on the other hand has always had my sympathy because while Roslin seemed to be falling off the deep end this whole time, he’s always had the well-being of the Galactica and the fleet in mind, even if he hasn’t gone about it the right way. He knew he was a disgraced when given command of Galactica and now he’s being looked at by the entirety of what’s left of the human race to save them, not Roslin, she’s just the prophet, and he’s having difficulty handling it.

They are in a FULL crisis of faith. Meaning the lives of every single religious people on the crew broke down (hell just imagine what would happen on earth if one or all of the main religions where completely proven wrong).

While they are dealing with the insurrection, there is a new and dangerous power rising being overlooked. Baltar ! People in a crisis of faith have 2 choice (maybe 3 if they off themselves) revise all their life and accept the new reality, or the more popular choice, latch at the first sign of a new or complimentary religion. (This is not intended to bash over any religion or person, but like they say an individual is intelligent, while people as a group are stupid)

While Baltar new religion was laughable sooner in 4.0, now it has the possibility of becoming the main religion. Seeing the ultimate power of the old religion on the lives of the colony. It would Shoot Baltar at the prophet position and the highest leader of the faith. They could quench the present rebelion to turn around and see Baltar taking full control of the fleet.

I also wanted to thank you for making a point Adama having information that the rest of the fleet doesn’t have. Because, if the military has information, then why doesn’t the “government.” I would like to point out here that the military serves “the polices” of the government but is not actually supposed to be “part” of the government. Adama himself makes a good point of that in the first season in a private conversation to “Dictator” Roslin. Saying to the effect it is the job of the military to fight the enemies of the state and when the military begins to police the people of said state then the enemies of the state become the people. He needs to give the information to his superiors, which in there society would seem to include the Quorum. However instead he keeps it to himself or only tells his girlfriend so they can keep their iron fist rule intact.

Information is the enormous elephant in the room. They don’t share with the government. They just get small bits and are supposed to be ok with it.

The cylons are the enemy, oh wait there are good cylons, oh and they will be boarding your ship to install cylon technology, oh and they will have the same status as you cause they are friends, oh and every new discovered Cylons in major position of power will stay there because we trusted them before we knew. It worked so well with Boomer.

I’m pretty everyone of us would rebel if we were served that amount of bullsh…(sorry barb).

And as much as I hate to say Baltar was right…Baltar was right about the emerging aristocracy, eh? There’s definitely a “first family” that Adama gives a heck of a lot of get-out-of-jail/trouble-free cards (Lee [after a lot of mutual emo, of course], Kara, Tigh, Helo, Laura post-“Home,” Athena post-“Occupation”) and then there are those whom he doesn’t (Tyrol, Baltar, Zarek, pretty much all civilians). Dee held a kind of odd position in between; Adama did seem to treat her like a daughter, but she never really needed the level of bailing out that Kara and Lee require quite often, so we never saw exactly how far that treatment ran. I can’t quite figure out where Gaeta falls in all this, either. Adama definitely doesn’t give him as much license or credence as Kara, but I guess we don’t really know what happened discipline-wise after Gaeta stabbed Baltar…yeah, I don’t know.

Great observation, there is a terrible injustice in that. People close to Adama can mess up all they want and they get out of it always. While others even trying to do the right thing (or at least looking that way) get almost executed at each turn.

Also speaking of powers, Adama reports to the president of the Colonies and if there president is like the American president, Roslin would be the “Commander-In-Chief. That means military decisions should rest with her or whoever is the president at the time.”

Yes the Cylon tech is a very good idea, and Adama has a good intention in getting it, and making those Cylons citizens sits ok with me. But the poor man on the refining ship who has not had a day off since the first attack on the Colonies might not see it that way. I posted long ago about how Roslin could have used her office to aid in making a real economy and solved many of these problems that gives these poor people such unrest and make them more moldable to a leader like Zarek.

Is it a good idea? First its tearing the fleet apart just suggesting it. And what prevents the Cylons to put fail safe to all the ship equipments to make them respect their part of the deal. They could probably shut down the entire fleet after on a whim.

Not counting Cavel discovering their new technology could possibly be able to hack their system and we’re back at the miniseries when they were shooting entire fleets with two small aircraft.

Felix is half right, Cylons could be manipulating them right now. Who knows, is the final 5 programmed like Boomer was? Is the Cylons negotiating with the fleet are ? They are telling the truth because they are programmed to believe they are telling the truth. Athena could be the same way, or just like the backward BBQ 8 just waiting for the perfect opportunity to inflict maximum damage.

[missmuffet]

The post of the separation of powers and there being no third party, like a supreme court is a noticeable absence and a very good point. However with the ego of Adama I really don’t see him taking Zarek to court of the issue or any issue. It is easier to kidnap him under the cover of an arrest and hold him hostage against his will.

Also speaking of powers, Adama reports to the president of the Colonies and if there president is like the American president, Roslin would be the “Commander-In-Chief. That means military decisions should rest with her or whoever is the president at the time.”

Tom Zarek is not president though - even though he is running the government right now he had absolutely no authority over the military as the vice president. Until Roslin resigns and president or someone declares her unfit - she is still in charge. And no, she wasn’t elected but Tom Zarek AGREED to her taking back power if he got to be vice president.

[Cavatar]

Zarek was the legal president after New Caprica and gave the power back to Roslin became he knew that Adama wouldn’t allow him to be president.

Also, when he was the legally acting president when Roslin was aboard the Baststar; Adama woundn’t even take his wireless calls. He wouldn’t allow him to even be the acting president. Even as the Admiral he doesn’t have that right.

And finally from the perspective to an outsider living, working or maybe slaving away in the fleet; they might think it looks funny that the next president (even if he was only filling in for Roslin) was Admiral’s son. Like Baltar asked, do you think anyone will lead this fleet whose name isn’t Adama?

[Cavatar]

I must admit, after seeing the clip of Adama in the airlock I kinda feel bad wishing it on him in this thread.

[Old_Timer]

I must admit, after seeing the clip of Adama in the airlock I kinda feel bad wishing it on him in this thread.

Don’t beat yourself up - he’ll live. As noted elsewhere the “crack in the wall after a big slug of alcohol” scene from You Will Know The Troof is yet to come.

[Cassiopia]

Don’t beat yourself up - he’ll live. As noted elsewhere the “crack in the wall after a big slug of alcohol” scene from You Will Know The Troof is yet to come.

Exactly.

Zarek is reminding me more and more of Dick Cheney. (waves at the CIA man scanning this message). Intelligent, but dirty.

[Cavatar]

True and thanks guys.

I do like Adama and feel for him. But I do also feel Geata (don’t know how to spell his name) is right on one thing at the very least. Adama is not the leader he once was. He has changed. I do feel he should be removed from power, but he doesn’t deserve to die.

[bigdamnhero]

Adama is not the leader he once was. He has changed. I do feel he should be removed from power, but he doesn’t deserve to die.

I think that’s becoming clearer after “Oath”… Adama’s got some teeth left, and I still like him, but I think Lee is gonna have to step up and start running things… “parents gotta die before the children can come into their own”, huh?

[Cavatar]

Yeah that seems to be ringing true here now about the parents dying thing.

I know in the podcast they talked about the Adama and Geata arguing about their oath. And that Geata looked lame, but I don’t know. I mean Adama seems to have forgotten his oath too. This Adams would let Roslin fix the election; I guess that is the best way to say how he has changed. And not because of his feelings for her, but because he feels the fleet needs her over anyone else even his son. Does he deserve to die, well maybe; if Cain did then maybe he does too. Right now, I don’t feel they are all that different and I did cheer her demise.

I suppose what stinks here is that I feel Geata was right, but he is doing it the wrong way.

[Nickname_Boomer]

I’m right with you Cavatar. Well almost, I don’t want Adama and Roslin dead, cause I like the characters. and like Chief said he deserves better fate than what he’ll get from them. but they’ve done far to much, and crossed to many lines to be allowed to retain power.

[Cavatar]

Well I really don’t want them dead either, just made to be marginalized. But one car argue the point as long as they breathe they are a threat to try and take power. Sort of like Zarek.

[Ice_Tsar]

I think there is problem when you are transferring the American system of government on the Colonials. You are assuming that before the strike on the Colonies that the Military was separate from government and under full civilian control because that is the way the American system is setup. I think this is a mistake and the writers will not bind themselves by these conventions. They are trying to tell a story that is more focused on religion than politics. Once we see what role Baltar plays and what Starbuck actually is, I think it will become clear that this political manoevre is a distraction from the ultimate goal.

[Pike]

I think there is problem when you are transferring the American system of government on the Colonials. You are assuming that before the strike on the Colonies that the Military was separate from government and under full civilian control because that is the way the American system is setup. I think this is a mistake and the writers will not bind themselves by these conventions.

Welcome aboard, and good point. I think RDM said that the system draws from American and British models, but there’s no reason they would limit themselves to just those.

[Nickname_Boomer]

(quagmire voice) Separation of powers, come up there’s nothing wrong with some hot president on Admiral action. all right!!!

[Cavatar]

True we don’t the exact set before that attack, but I can site several points in the show that prove the military in the BSG world does answer to the president. That means anytime one does not follow an order from the president they are committing a crime.

[Starbuccaneer]

I think that’s becoming clearer after “Oath”… Adama’s got some teeth left, and I still like him, but I think Lee is gonna have to step up and start running things… “parents gotta die before the children can come into their own”, huh?

I do not think that Lee is a viable military leader. He isn’t right for that, but he is right for the future of the political leadership- IF he stands up right frakking now and starts advocating for the people of the fleet.

Both Adama and Roslin need to step down, and I think they will. I mean, Roslin won’t have a choice before long, and I think she’s smart enough to realize that if she leaves a total leadership vaccuum that it will be even more destabilizing. I think that Adama needs to personally anoint a successor, and I think it needs to be Helo. The military won’t trust whoever puts him/herself forward and tries to be the leader after Adama is pushed out/dies/steps down without naming a successor. Tigh hasn’t got fleet-wide support, and he might have died. Helo has command experience, has worked in CIC and as a pilot, has done “away missions,” and is a stand-up guy all around. He could do it, and I think the Cylons would accept him, too (since alliance is inevitable).

[Phil]

I think that Adama needs to personally anoint a successor, and I think it needs to be Helo. The military won’t trust whoever puts him/herself forward and tries to be the leader after Adama is pushed out/dies/steps down without naming a successor. Tigh hasn’t got fleet-wide support, and he might have died. Helo has command experience, has worked in CIC and as a pilot, has done “away missions,” and is a stand-up guy all around. He could do it, and I think the Cylons would accept him, too (since alliance is inevitable).

Yup, I think it’s heading this way more and more. Now that they’ve found and ditched Earth, it looks like they will have to rebuild their society on their own. Lee will be the civilian leader and Helo the military leader of their new society. Probably the only way the new Cylon rebels would continue to align with the colonials (after Adamas gone) would be if Helo were in charge of the military.