A Song of Ice and Fire series (spoilers for all 4 books)

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#1

Now that the tv show is out I thought it was time we had a thread to talk about the entire series for those of us who have read it to avoid spoiling those who haven’t read past the first book.

As a starter: what was the moment in the series, if any, that made you have to stop reading for a while?

For me it was the Red Wedding. Between reading the whole thing from Catelyn’s perspective and then hearing from another character what the Freys had done to Robb horrified me, especially since Robb was my favorite Stark kid after Arya.

#2

For me it was the middle of the first book. It just slogged down with all the various characters and nothing clear was happening. I put it down for a couple weeks. Fortunately I was interested enough to see how it played out. I was hooked by the time Ned was killed.

I think I read the next three books in less time than it took me to read the first one.

#3

It’s always difficult to read the red wedding chapter. The first time it was especially bad as it suggests that Arya is killed as well. Thankfully she was ok.

I really didn’t see Eddard getting killed. He was clearly the lead character and lead characters only die at the very end of a series if at all. I know a few people who are watching the tv show that haven’t read the books. I’ll be interested to see how they react.

I have another topic for discussion, Jon’s parentage. The first time I heard the theory that Lyanna and Rheagar were his parents, I was dubious at best. About ten minutes later I was pretty much convinced that they are. It’s bound to be relevant. I just wonder if Lyanna and Rheagar were married first.

I’m going to be starting a re-read soon. Hopefully I can time it so I finish AFfC just in time for ADwD. I think I’ll start with the Dunk and Egg stories next week. I have had a copy of Warriors on my shelf for ages now, but I’ve been saving the third Dunk and Egg story until the release date for ADwD was confirmed.

#4

I’m fairly certain that Jon is the child of Lyanna and Rheagar. There is so much evidence for it that I can’t see anyone else being likely. I also think Howland Reed is the only person alive who knows and that’s why we haven’t seen him yet, because he shoul have come and swore fealty to the Starks instead of sending his kids.

Also if Jon is the child of Lyanna and Rheagar I’m fairly convinced the prophecy of the Prince Who Was Promised applies to him.

#5

I may be misremembering but I think Rheagar believed that his son Aegon was the Prince That Was Promised, along with a subtle mention of his ‘Song of Ice and Fire’. Fire of course being heavily associated with the Targaryans. Somehow I don’t think there’s much connection between ice and a Dornish princess. But a Stark on the other hand…

I suppose ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ could refer to a union between Jon and (possibly Aunt) Daneyrs. If Jon is legitimate (assuming he’s Rheagars son) his claim to the throne trumps Danys (ignoring the nightwatch oath). Plus the Targs have a history of ‘keeping it within the family’.

#6

Actually unless Rhaegar and Lyanna were married or Dany legitimizes him Dany would still have the better claim as she is the daughter of the king and Jon would only be the bastard of the Prince, but with it being likely that Robb legitimized Jon before he died things could get interesting.

I think Jon is the Prince That Was Promised as he is the most obvious joining of Ice and Fire in the series. You can’t get a more literal joining of the two than the offspring of a Targaryen and a Stark.

#7

I know, that’s why I said ‘If Jon’s legitimate’ ie not a bastard. It’s possible that Rheagar and Lyanna did get married. Polygamy was not unheard of among the Targs. I’m not sure that Robb’s statement legitimizing Jon would make that much of a difference regarding the Iron Throne as virtually no one recognized Robb as a king. It would be almost like if Balon Greyjoy said that Jon was legitimate, no one would pay any attention. It might convince Jon to take Winterfell and the North though (even though he already turned it down).

#8

Well, if the Baratheons are left out (Gendry et al. may yet come into play) Robb’s as much a king as any of the claimants.

I suspect we’re going to end up with several competing interests who all have an equally legitimate claim to the Iron Throne.

#9

I meant that it would be interesting not because of the Iron Throne but because if Jon was legitimized by Robb he’d be the “King in the North” and in charge of Winterfell. It might mess up all the plotting everyone is doing with Sansa because her claim to the seat in Winterfell would be usurped by Jon’s. That would be an interesting set of circumstances to be in when Jon’s parentage becomes known. If he is a legitimate child of Rhaegar and Lyanna he would have a far better claim to the Iron Throne than any one else but Dany and since Dany has the dragons I’m thinking she will end up in control at some point and if she finds that Jon is her nephew and she really is barren he would be the perfect heir for her especially if at the end of the series the Wall comes down and there is no need for the Night’s Watch.

#10

Another topic: What are your favorite characters?

#11

Tyrion, Jon, and Arya seem to be the most popular favorites (mine too.)

I also have a soft spot for Brienne and Sandor.

#12

I’d probably agree with the Arya Jon and Tyrion choices as far as main characters go. I also quite like Jaime. Then there’s the more minor characters. I’m a big fan of the Blackfish, a total badass. I also really liked Syrio. There’s talk of him being Jaquen H’gar. It’s a stretch, but as the mythbusters would say, plausible. Also Dolorous Edd Tollet is hillarious.

#13

My favorite characters are Arya, Daenerys, Tyrion, Jon, Jaime, Brienne, Renly and the Blackfish.

#14

Arya and Tyrion. Daenerys is gaining fast.

#15

I was surprised that Jaime managed to grow on me, I didn’t think I would ever like him after what he did to Bran but he did. I actually feel sorry for him with the way Cersei and Tywin treat him after he loses his hand.

#16

Having read all the books, right now? Arya, Dany, Jon. On a second tier, Brienne, Jaime, and Tyrion. I also really liked the Dorne storyline in A Feast for Crows and want to know more about Arianne :slight_smile:

#17

I’m interested to see where the Dorne storyline goes as well. I forgot to mention earlier how much I like Asha simply for the way she plays Theon. I am hoping that Arya and Asha both end up in Dany’s party somehow, she needs some women/girls around her that can do more than serve as her maids.

#18

Ooh I had forgotten about Asha. Loved the way she put down Theon, muwahaha.

For all of the complaints in the first book/the current TV show about women characters, I found that with each book they became both more numerous and more interesting.

And now I’m going to imagine Dany, Arya, Asha, and Arianne all getting together to kick ass and take names. Let’s get some ghost-Catelyn and Brienne (if she’s not dead) in on the action? Aw man aw man…

#19

That would be a sight to see. Dany, Arya, Asha and Arianne would make a formidable group, especially if they hook up with zombie!Catelyn and Brienne. I could just see the men of Westeros cowering before them, especially with the backing of the dragons.

I love that people complain about his female character but I think most of them are awesome, even more than most of his male characters.

#20

The moment Arya woke up blind, I put the book away for a full day.

Thoughts on Arya’s blindness? Permanent or temp? Punishment or training? I remember there were some of the blind acolytes fumbling with putting candles out. Maybe that’s phase two of Faceless University.