Here we go.
Will have to watch it again, but what my mind tried to compute so far.
Isabella on Island was MIB all the way and he played Richard all the way with Smokey supposedly killing her (again). Or could he really have the same ability like Hurley and could talk to her?
Great episode! No huge surprises really, but it still felt very important. And we did finally get someone who said “The Island is…” and actually said something.
To quote Locke: “We’re going to need to watch that again.”
Good origin story. Superb acting. Big answers …and then contradictions. Was hoping Ricky had a little more info or insight as to what was going on. Over all a decent episode. Not all I’d hoped, but all I needed.
I fear that at the end of the series we will be left with the same who’s good, who’s bad questions that we have right now, just with more information corroborating both side’s view. (Kinda hope it has a stronger POV than that while still leaving some shades of doubt.)
I dunno. I was a bit unhappy with this episode.
Yeah, we found out Richard’s story (finally) but they’re still leaning towards this whole GOoD vs dEVIL thing that I don’t particularly like. Way back at the beginning the producers said that everything on the Island could be explained through science or pseudoscience and that there was no outright fantasy involved. Now we’re dealing with people who talk to the dead and god and devil-like beings.
So the Man in Black is a being who wants to tempt mankind into doing Evil? And Jacob is (or was) somehow keeping him on the Island to protect the rest of the world from him? Sorry, I’m not happy with that. Not that there is anything wrong with that kind of story, I just didn’t think Lost was going to go that way.
I really really think that Jacob is the evil one here and that the Man in Black is the good one. I mean thus far the smoke monster has really only killed bad people (with the exception of the pilot whose back story we really don’t know) or the deaths of those who mean him harm. If Jacob, is bad as i assume he is, then the Temple people were the bad guys. When Dogan did his “scale ritual” on Sayed he said that Sayed came down on the “wrong side” of the scale…not the evil side as everyone thinks he said. Jacob has killed many (perhaps hundreds) of people in his attempts to get the candidates to the island. Those on the Black Rock (the other slaves, not necessarily the crew (who smokey took care of)), those on flight 815, those on the second plane.
I don’t think that the Island is Hell nor do i believe that Jacob is the Devil (so he wasn’t lying per-say) but I do believe that he is the more evil of the two.
Great spotlight episode for Richard! From that hysterical giggle when Ilana asked what to do next to the moment he put Isabella’s cross around his neck, I was absolutely riveted by Carbonell. And sheesh, why don’t we heap all the sorrows of the world on Nestor? Evil Lost writers. Thanks for giving me another 'ship other than Penny/Desmond and Sayid/Nadia that breaks me down in sobs.
So now we know how the Tawaret Statue got all broken. We have the Hanso connection to the Island established. We heard MiB give the exact same instructions to Richard as Dogen gave to Sayid. Hurley can talk to dead people that he’s never even met. And I still have no reason to trust either Jacob or Esau if anyone that winds up on the Island is no more than a subject in their social experiment.
Given what we saw in the lighthouse, I always thought Jacob was looking for someone in particular when he called the ships/planes/whatever to the Island. But maybe not.
Yeah, yeah, we know it’s not Hell or Purgatory. So what is it?!?
I disagree - I think that Jacob is good and MIB is bad - however just because Jacob is on the side of good doesn’t mean he’s God or even that he’s pure. It’s kind of like on Supernatural - how the Angels are supposed to be on the side of light but are constantly doing things that are at the very least morally questionable. I don’t think that Jacob caused the plane crash - he touched each person so that they would travel the path that would get them on the plane - the plane crashed because Desmond didn’t push the button.
It feels very Vorlon/Shadow-like at times. I still think Smokey is a hep frood who really knows where his towel’s at, he’s my favorite character.
From the beginning I’ve thot it was Limbo (Purgatory), the world between worlds. I thot they all died in the plane crash and were now LOST souls, requiring redemption. I’m not sure how that theory holds up now.
The one question I have from last night, why did Smokey spare Richard? The only thing I can think of was that he was an innocent man, imprisoned unjustly. This would make him more malleable to manipulation through debt, once freed. 'cept that wasn’t clear and neither Jacob or MiB said anything about it. They just took advantage of him.
Jacob says MiB is a malevolent force kept at bay. That was Taweret’s job in the Egyptian pantheon. So it makes sense that Jacob lives in the statue.
I see it just the opposite. MiB does some very bad things but for good reasons. I have a feeling that MiB is the exact opposite of what Jacob says he is. He says he is evil and destruction. What if the Island is more like Pandora’s Box. it was opened long long ago and all the evil got out. what if MiB is the “hope” that is left on the bottom. But Jacob is keeping him in.
that’s an interesting thought. I guess what makes me believe that Jacob is good and MiB is bad is their conversation in last season’s finale. The MiB says that they’ll just keep coming and killing each other and what’s the point - and Jacob says it only ends once. Everything before that is just progress. I can’t help but think that Jacob’s attitude makes him the more benevolent being.
But we’ll find out whose right soon enough - or will we? :rolleyes:
I think Jacob is seen more on the side of good in this episode, but there is still an ambiguity with these two.
I can’t get passed how flawed and human they seem. There is more Jack and Locke in them than angel and demon.
I wonder is these two are just the latest in a long line of players in the game, and finding candidates is like finding another sucker to push the button.
Do you guys believe Smokey when he told Richard that his body and his humanity was taken from him? Granted most of what he said was a lie, but he did come clean about being the black smoke.
I’m still trying to lean more towards free will vs fate when it comes to Jacob and Smokey but I can’t decide which one is which. But yeah, it almost seems as if they are trying to make us think that Jacob is the good guy and Smokey is the bad guy which means the truth is probably the opposite. (Remember Ben’s continual insistence that he represented the “good guys”?)
And I agree with Mr. Lister, Sir that they were very careful to have Dogen say Sayid’s scale was on “the wrong side” instead of being good or evil.
But for some reason I keep thinking of this quote.
I’m still undecided about which of the two is good or bad. After all, Darlton has given us so many conflicting cues (including casting Mark Pelligrino as Jacob) that I think the case could be made either way that they’re trick us into believing Jacob/MIB is the good guy when he’s actually not. I have a feeling the answer is going to be a lot more complicated than we expect.
We have the Hanso connection to the Island established.
In this episode? Do tell.
It feels very Vorlon/Shadow-like at times.
I’ve been saying that for weeks. I think ultimatly Jacob and the Man in Black are not good vs. evil, they are different points of view. The Man in Black’s point of view is more harsh (like the Shadows) but it really depends on what your viewpoint is.
Heh I made my ride at work wait 10 min while I finished the episode before we left work.
I’m such a junkie.
When the priest sells Richard to the ship captain he tells Richard that he now belongs to Magnus Hanso (who we knew from before was the owner of the Black Rock).
Did he say hanso? I thought i heard Hanslo…meh same thing either way. I figure I just heard it wrong.
Ah, good catch tanstaafl. I had forgotten about the Hanso Connection to the Black Rock earlier.
LOL @ Thunderscreech
That is a good way to think about it though. Richard was like Jacob’s Mr. Morden.