#361: The Dominion War

#1

In this episode, Sean is out sick, so Chuck and Audra take the time to wax philosophical about their recent rewatch of the “Dominion War” episodes of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

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#2

Got a laugh out of Juan’s intro.

#3

Me too, man. Nice stuff, Juan. :slight_smile:

#4

Well the thing that I was surprised with is there wasn’t the mentioning of Gattica when talking designer genes(new genetics) . Which the movie is about, which answers what Auderia was talking about. Hits the same marks of classes. Though I think that is because you can’t do it in a single episode. Now the best episodes of DS9 were those mutli-episode story/character archs for that. Though the reason why I don’t think they want to tell exactly what happen, because it was better when it was hinted at. Tasha Yar for example. Which always sounds like the Federation as great as it is, did not save everything. That made me think more about it, because I don’t know. I was wondering, and that lead to me thinking about because it wasn’t explained.

Now each Star Trek has something they did well. DS9 I believe the world, which allows for these great characters. When I think about DS9, I keep thinking back so many things that create this world. Bajoran temple thing is a worm whole for example. That allows for it to do things I do love, it is the same reason why it leads to things I hate about DS8. One of the reasons why I love is Auderia’s favorite, Kira, is because you saw how this world was. Odo’s name for example meaning nothing. To how he is viewed, that allows him to be anything by being nothing. Which adds and defines the world. There are MANY things about the world I they create in DS9 I do not enjoy. The thing is regardless of the episode they had something to help you see more of their world, which in turn help people explore more of their own. Which you gave an example to with this episode.

For anyone wanting to cheek out the Memory thing Auderia mentioned, http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main would be the link.

My personal favorite being Dax. Pretty much seeing her and Worf together was one of my favorite moments of the show. Its one of those things in fiction that gives me hope, when reality doesn’t. Terry Farrel does a great job with a great job. I am always unsure if it is either DS9 or Beaker she was better at.

#5

Thanks for this amazing episode guys. In the Pale Moonlight is one of my favorite hours of TV ever. The episode where the Vedek hangs herself is “Rocks and Shoals”, a close second for favorite episodes of Star Trek. The Vedek stuff is a B plot and only takes up a few minutes of screen time, but it is very important to the character of Kira. The Dominion War was what made Deep Space Nine in many ways, and for me at least why the later seasons kicked so much ass. I love the analysis of it too, lots of things I never thought about. More Deep Space Nine please :).

#6

As much as I would enjoy to hear more, I think it would be tougher. DS9 was better from an analytical perception. Which why it worked as a good episode to talk about. The reason why I don’t think people bring it up as much as Next Gen. Next Gen on the other hand is more enjoyable watch.Which makes it easier to have in the background, not paying attention. It was the marrying of what Orignal was, and where they wanting to take it. Where Original Star Trek was nothing but that enjoyable silliness. Which allowed them to tell these great sci fi ideas. Which brings back to each Star Trek has something they did well. This is the same with the movies. If you put them on quality scale you be arguing to the cows come home. They all got something great about it. Even the new modern Star Trek for it ilk that it is, has something great about it.

DS9 is actually the show I think Star Trek series had been trying to do. Which is why the world is great, and feels like you are viewing this world of tomorrow. Where many of the things that work in the world, aren’t that far from reality. That it feels like any port town. Which allows for so many great conversation that the show introduce. Though if you had notice during the show this week, there was little talk about the actual show. Rather the thinking, and analyzing of things brought up by it. The things that made you think. To allow for many episodes that are disappointing to view, but allow for these great conversations. The episode where they got shrunk down somehow for example. How your perception changes the world, how do you interact with it. Where similar ideas that Next Gen was able to do, yet be fun when the Captain gets turned into a kid. The lack of fun is why I don’t enjoy DS9 as much, but that is what made DS9 so great.

They did try to bring back that with Voyager’s exploration into the unknown, but not as successfully. Which made it impossible for it to have something as great as DS9. Though the trade off there was rather unique there, that keeps me going back to Voyager. There is this episode where Janeway has to travel across time lines within her own ship. Still gives me goosebumps on how that episode is different each time I watch it. It isn’t that great of an episode other then that one aspect.

Though that is the thing, much like Final Fantasy, there is a Star Trek out there for each person to love.

#7

Yes, all of the different incarnations of Star Trek were different and did different things well. I’m just saying, we could hear a lot about from the crew about it, we didn’t even get Sean or Juan’s thoughts on what they were discussing this week. The show was on for 7 years, there is plenty to talk about.

#8

Do agree, but they talked more about the ideas from the show. Rather then the show itself.

#9

More talk on the ideas of Deep Space Nine!

#10

I happened to rewatch Star Trek: Nemesis recently …(…and reminded how much I really enjoy that movie).

And there’s a Dominion War mention in the movie:

Data: “Almost nothing is known of the Reman homeworld. Although intelligence scans have proven Dilhitium mining and heavy weapons construction. The Remans themselves are considered an undesirable caste at hierarchy of the Empire.”

Riker: “But they also have a reputation to be formidable warriors. In the Dominion War Reman troops were used as shock troops at every final days.”

Picard: “Cannon fodder”

#11

I think there was one at the beginning of Insurrection too.

#12

In the Pale Moonlight was my favorite Trek episode, and in terms of overall Trek, second only to Wrath of Khan. Garak is my favorite character, and watching his story unfold over the course of the series captivated me as much as the overall alien conspiracy arc in The X-Files.

Chuck, I don’t suppose you made a shareable list of all the Dominion War episodes, did you?

#13

Chuck made mention of Asimov’s Harry Seldon from the Foundation series regarding the scientific discipline labeled as psychohistory. Coincidentally, I read an article recently that tried to introduce some new emergent interdisciplinary scientific fields, one of which harkened back to Asimov’s Psychohistory, only now it’s being coined as Cliodynamics (named for the Greek muse of History). It seems Science Fiction is again trying to emerge as Science Fact.

#14

Fully agree Fenatic. This is done in the background as well as in the fore front. There is this little thing I don’t think people notice, but there is always this group in the background at the bar. They don’t seem to be buying anything, and a server is talking to them for a good while. Which I always enjoyed, because it was one of those things that popped out as something real. Mostly because this happens with friends. That there are these little things on the edge of our world that we connect with regardless of the setting. That there are these elements that shape our world, we don’t ever notice. Which goes to the heart of Star Trek as a series, it is about these people. Regardless of what is going on you start to care. These little things that come up. Take for example the nick nacks on Sisko’s desk. I don’t think it is till the end of the show do you see the weight of that, till you see how one gets there. Something that links back to people today. I have a skateboarding turtle that I have had since the first day I went to school. That carries the same weight as the baseball. There is also my lucky eraser. I always keep it somewhere because it says Death Kills. Stupid as it was to have an eraser say that, it made me chuckle. Was the first time I reliese I could tell a joke, I could say something funny, because I made myself laugh. That so small a thing, could carry so heavy an idea.

#15

I like all of the Trek series (different reasons for each), but I think that DS9 is probably my favorite. In my mind DS9 and Enterprise are rather similar in that they peeled away layers from the shiny surface that was the UFP and the whole Trek world and showed the dark, dangerous underbelly that existed outside of the peaceful, happy world erected by humans, vulcans, denobulans, bolians, et al. They were, to me, the most ‘realistic’ of the Trek series. There was some of that, I thought, in every Trek series, if one knew where to look for it, but in DS9 and Enterprise it seemed much more at the forefront.

Touching on the Trek-related news discussion from 'Cast #360, I’ve always been interested in the economic side of the Federation and how production and consumption would work in a world where worthless matter (i.e. sewage, garbage, gravel, dirt, etc.) can be instantaneously transformed into something useable. Of course the Federation has access to the agricultural and industrial output of hundreds of planets, there are still freighters that transport things between them, and obviously starships have to be constructed at shipyards and the components have to be assembled. The one example that’s always nagged at me was actually found in DS9, where Sisko’s dad runs a restaurant in New Orleans. Does he actually earn money from that, or is it simply something he does for his own personal satisfaction and to provide meals for the locals? Perhaps it’s not so much that resources are limitless, but they are abundant enough that it’s much easier to divvy them up in an equitable fashion. Not to mention that people’s attitudes towards consumption (particularly consumerism, obviously) are much healthier than what we have to deal with today.

#16

I’ve decided to start a rewatch of DS9. It’s been a while, so I think I’m about ready. It’s not all gold, the earlier seasons can be a bit dodgy in places (not unlike TNG). I’m going to concur with pretty much everyone that In the Pale Moon light is one of the best episodes of television ever (up there with The West Wing’s “Two Cathedrals”, and B5’s “Severed Dreams”)

#17

Touching on the Trek-related news discussion from 'Cast #360, I’ve always been interested in the economic side of the Federation and how production and consumption would work in a world where worthless matter (i.e. sewage, garbage, gravel, dirt, etc.) can be instantaneously transformed into something useable. Of course the Federation has access to the agricultural and industrial output of hundreds of planets, there are still freighters that transport things between them, and obviously starships have to be constructed at shipyards and the components have to be assembled. The one example that’s always nagged at me was actually found in DS9, where Sisko’s dad runs a restaurant in New Orleans. Does he actually earn money from that, or is it simply something he does for his own personal satisfaction and to provide meals for the locals? Perhaps it’s not so much that resources are limitless, but they are abundant enough that it’s much easier to divvy them up in an equitable fashion. Not to mention that people’s attitudes towards consumption (particularly consumerism, obviously) are much healthier than what we have to deal with today.

To be honest, I don’t think any of the people writing the various Star Trek series ever really knew the answer to this or wanted to get into it. Clearly money does exist in the 24th century. Even if the Federation does not use it at all (which I doubt) they would need it for interactions with other governments and species. The whole thing starts to fall apart if you think about it too much. The best way to think of it is the end of what Picard says in First Contact: “The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force of our lives.”

#18

Especially when the Federation exists in contact with groups that function as hyper-capitalist societies (oh, the Ferengi… I find it telling that in the 80s the most “evil” new bad guys that Rodenberry thought up were hard-core capitalists). And exchange still happens, there’s still an economic system - Voyager’s an extreme case but replicator rations were a thing. Or when Jake Sisko is a best-selling writer - who “buys” his books? How does that work?

All that to say that - the economic utopia of the Federation as a system doesn’t seem to line up with what a lot of individual stories do in economic terms, but it’s still fun to think about!

#19

Hi GWCJuan &Chuck I get confused between DS9 & Babylon 5 - are they really so similar?

I found a link on Memory Alpha discussing this :

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Babylon_5#Babylon_5_and_Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine

But I’d really like to discuss this further.

PS You guys gotta check out Babylon 5: Legend of the Rangers! - Citizen G’Kar is the funniest thing in sci-fi until Stargate’s o’Neill came along!

#20

PS You guys gotta check out Babylon 5: Legend of the Rangers! - Citizen G’Kar is the funniest thing in sci-fi until Stargate’s o’Neill came along!

Oy! Legend of the Rangers is OK, but hardly the best or funniest B5 around.