Yeah, I used to watch that show in the morning before school. Found out a few friends of mine also used to watch it.
It was more accurate to the book than the movie, yes, but it still involved Verhoeven. So it could only be so true to the book.
Not to knock the movie. I, for one, liked it.
Sorry for the smart alec title. I was trying for “the ayes have it” sort of thing. I’m referring to “Tigh’s Other Eye” (“T.O.E.”) post here on the Starship Troopers thread.
Anyhoe TOE is right. “The Roughneck Chronicles” is pretty good. It’s different from the movie version of Starship Troopers which is still pretty damn good even if it isn’t related to the original Starship Troopers. It’s as if “The Life of Brian” had been released under the title “The Gospel”.
Ah yes, the classic Sci-fi treatise on civic responsibility. I always love the dedication - ‘To the everlasting glory of the Infantry’.
I was cordially ambivalent to the movie - but love the book (and most of his works).
I just started reading. Boy I got some catching up to do.
I just picked up the book at the library. I last read it, maybe …wow…25 years ago.
Good news is that, as Chuck says, it is a quick read. Bad news is I tend to take a look time to finish a book regardless. (I may need to put aside Sandworms of Dune in interim.)
Starship Troopers the movie? I was entertained by it, but it wasn’t true to the feel of the book, but it had it’s own style. Quite frankly, a good Starship Troopers movie would need to be in the kind of “documentary, realistic” style of Ron Moore’s BSG.
Yes, I could rant about the movie all day, but this is about the book. I am still in the process of rereading it. I would say though, I hated—really hated—how the Starship Troopers movie director presented the mobile infantry as Nazis through the similar uniforms, among other small details. The animation series does a much better job, though it has aged. I hadn’t read the book by that point, but it was a small detail that made me shut the movie out. a dark and gritty miniseries based on the book would be awesome!
[Last time I bring up the movie in this thread]
I finally got my book off amazon for $5 (w/ shipping).I read the first chapter the movie imagery keeps sneaking into my head ,this CG series is helping though.
I am only about 50 pages in, but am really enjoying it. I appreciate the way that, so far, Heinlein’s story refuses to be shoe-horned into any rigid ideology, and forces readers to examine their own convictions. The idea, for instance, that only those who are willing to fight (or to serve in some way – isn’t there a provision for that in Heinlein’s universe?) to preserve democracy deserve the franchise is provacative (to say the least); I don’t agree with it, but am hard pressed to say exactly why. In that sense, the book is a lot like BSG so far: both stories put the audience under the microscope.
Oh, and poor Carruthers, being dismissed as “too old” at age 35. I’m 35! Ouch! 
I don’t really think required service is that radical of an idea.
Most of the European countries have mandatory “National Service”, that can range from being in the military to working for a CCC like organization.
In the US, the military and veterans have one of the highest voter turn out rates of any sub group. Buy the general populations indifference, Heinlein’s vision is coming to fruition in practicality.
Where I would not promote mandatory military service, I would support the concept of a national service as a measure to provide a common cultural reference point to our young, promote an opening of perspective and to contribute to our society.
Yeah, I would have less problem with compulsory service of some kind as long as military was only one of the acceptable options. I think of programs like Teach for America or the Peace Corps as service that might count, for example, or even a certain amount of documented time in volunteer service through some other community organization.
Spencer, that is exactly how I feel. I think it should be a two year program where as long as you were mentally and physically able, everyone would be required to do some form of state or federal service—to include the military as an option. At the end of which the government could have some forms of incentive, like a mini-G.I. type bill. 18,000 for college, or an 8,000 dollar bonus. Everyone, rich or poor. If you don’t do it fine, but then you don’t get access to welfare, unemployment and various other government assistance. It would never happen though, it would be too big of a fundamental change for the USA.
I mostly agree with what you said. We do have these programs but, the really tough part is making them manditory. I think that manditory state service would never fly in the U.S. Heinlein doesn’t make the service manditory, it’s all voluntary, and I do support that option, but his reward for the service is full citizenship and the right to vote, and I think that it isn’t enough of a reward for the people that are indifferent to start with. These are the people that were probably not interested in voting to start with, so they wouldn’t put in the effort to get something that didn’t interst them. There has to be a finacial incentive to enter the programs, and hopefully, you get people interested in the community through these programs.
As for the various programs that you mentioned, unfortunately, they arn’t as well advertised as jobs in the military are, and so high school and college students don’t enter those programs in the numbers that enter the military.
This book and Enders Game are often on the reading lists for military OCS programs. The idea is that they capture alot of the leadership lessons for small (squad upto platoon) sized units.
See, the only real problem I find with this idea is that you can’t force a sense of responsibility on people - they need to come to that conclusion on their own. That’s why Heinlein’s Federal Service was voluntary, not obligatory.
So… you’re saying that conscription should be instituted because it brings more voters to the polls? I don’t really see this as a proper justification to deny someone’s right to decline military or civil service.
[quote=Spencer; 9339]
Where I would not promote mandatory military service, I would support the concept of a national service as a measure to provide a common cultural reference point to our young, promote an opening of perspective and to contribute to our society.[/QUOTE]
I would promote it, too, but I would not make it mandatory either. And like others, I would attach an incentive program - service for votes, decreased taxes, expanded civil rights and so on. Ultimately, though, the program would exist to promote a sense of communal responsibility and individual maturity.
A question for Dan or any other Canadians on the GWC. I know in America, the public is wildly apathetic when it comes to voting, is it the same way in your country? Slightly off topic I know, but I am curious.
Yeah, Lucky, we do.
I’m looking through the Elections Canada site right now.
Federal voter turnout in the last twenty years has dropped, and voter turnout in the history of federal elections has never been over 80 percent.
Also, the most recent provincial electionsin my province of Ontario had the worst voter turnout in over 70 years!
So to answer your question - yes, it seems that most Canadians just don’t care about politics. I think I know why myself, but that’s another story better saved for another thread.
I’m only a couple chapters into my re-read of Starship Troopers, and it just occured to me what one the reasons is that the movie is so disappointing. (Sorry for bringing up the movie again on this thread–I know it’s supposed by about the book, but think of this an appreciation of certain aspect of the book.) It’s the Mobile Infantry suits. In the book, they wear these powered suits that let them make incredible jumping movement, crossing a mile within a couple seconds. AND, because the suits, they actually jump out of spaceships—like paratroops and land on the planet. That’s a such a cool and imaginative aspect of the book. And it’s not in the movie at all. Granted you’d need pretty sophisticated CGI to do a good job with that. Certianly it could be done now better than when the movie came out.
I agree that you can’t force it, but one would hope that by broadening citizen experiences and providing education that this might lead to this. Another thing to contemplate is that the late teens and early twenties can often be a very destructive period in peoples lives. Half the reason people go to college is as a structured transition into real life in a safe environment.
With the national service in Europe, the inductees have the choice of what kind of service to provide, ranging from military to social service. I suspect some jobs are pretty koosh and geared for slackers, while others can be as demanding as possible. It is not as authoritarian as you seem to think.
I think your missing the point and going a little overboard here. The increase in voter turn out would just be a side benefit and not the primary purpose of institutional service. The additional voter turn out would be due to a greater sense of citizen involvement, either through experience, or through family who are involved. ie. How would you vote on Iraq if your kid is a marine. I suspect you would be more actively involved weather you are for or against it.
Thanks for the good discussion
It didn’t help that everyone in the movie were complete idiots. Who puts a live fire range in the middle of a training camp? Why is the captain of a starship surpised that the enemy is shooting back during a battle? Who let the bimbo show off her “hot” flying skills using a capital ship and a space station? Can’t anybody shoot straight? They are carrying nukes, and they all bunch up together like they are in a mosh pit?
What I found really fascinating about the military aspect of ST was the fact that no one was lied to when joining up! AND, they were constantly given outs all along the way, without dishonor. No one needed to be tricked into maybe dying in combat, and therefore no one in uniform becomes a victim of the very institution they are supposed to be serving and defending. It all stemmed from individual choice - not coercion or threat.
Also, I was just thinking, maybe this idea that people have been discussing about mandatory conscription of some sort wouldn’t be so far fetched after all, here in the US, and maybe in other places, if it were tied to the idea and institution that already exists of mandatory education. There are a lot of ways to fulfill the requirements of that. I look at kids leaving HS and immediately heading off to college, and then to grad or right into the workforce, with no break, no time to really explore something new before they head out into the “real world” and I think it’s sad. A service commitment that was meant to be temporary could offer a life and perspective changing option. A time to simply be.