Who here counts Superman as a god?

Television, Movies Games and Books Comics
#1

This kinda bugged me for a while and when I heard it on the latest podcast (#199) I figured why not bring it up here.

Is Superman a god? I never counted him as one for a few reasons.
1.He can’t do everything (he can’t make a tree grow faster for example, I blame the movies with the turning back time and the magic kiss, though I stll love them.)

2.He can be hurt and killed (not counting kryptonite, he’s been hurt by lasers and fists and so on)

3.He only seems to do the really god-like stuff in non-cannon stories like “Red Son” where he (Spoilers): [spoiler]goes faster than the speed of both thought and light on different occasions.not much of a spoiler but just to be safe.:)[/spoiler]
Admittedly Most of my Superman input is from the tv shows (mostly the animated ones) Am I wrong? what are your thoughts on this?

//youtu.be/LoejLjTx8hQ
and this I put in cause it fit and it’s awesome! :slight_smile:

#2
  1. Superman can control time (1978 movie), that can count as making a tree grow faster. Also, Thor is a god, but unless you can make a tree grow quicker by hitting it with a hammer, he can’t do that either.
  2. Most gods can be killed, the omnipotent god of the Christians/Jews/Muslims is a fairly recent development.
  3. I’d argue that the 1978 movie is reasonably a part of the canon, and he does control time there. Just sayin’. Now, does this mean Doc Brown is a god?

Yes. Yes he is.

#3

New style god? Not so much. Old style, anthropomorphic god? Definitely.
The dude is for all intents and purposes invulnerable, immortal, possesses strength and speed far in excess of human limits and thats not even mentioning his other peripheral powers like superbreath, super senses, heat vision. Precisely why Ive never liked Superman, the only thing preventing him from effecting real change is the limitations imposed on him by the cyclical nature of the storytelling.

#4

Always thot of Superman as a demi-god. He is afterall Hercules redux.

#5

Now, to argue that he’s NOT a god:

A god, by definition, does not follow morality. The Christian/Jewish/Muslim god kills with apparent impunity, tortures children, spreads pestilence, and in general dispenses huge barrel loads of suffering. He/It is given a free pass by religious believers because he/it creates morality, he/it isn’t constrained by it. “God works in mysterious ways”, they argue.

Similarly, the various gods of the other religions answer to nobody but their fellow gods in terms of morality, and their actions are often just as childish as you might expect from someone who is not given a set of acceptable behaviors.

Superman, on the other hand, was raised to be a “good kid”, and this continues into his adulthood. He has almost limitless power, but he was raised to use it for “good” as defined by his environment.

If anything, General Zod is a closer analogue to a ‘god’ than Superman, as he seems unconstrained/unshaped by the ethical structure Clark Kent has incorporated into his being.

#6

I think an important distinction might be “a god” versus “THE God.” He’s clearly not what’s usually conceived of as the latter. However, he may very well be the former. (Numerous other characters, usually villians oddly enough, would qualify as well.)

#7

Which “THE god”, anyhow?

#8

Assumption: monotheistic conceptualization of god, e.g. the one shared by Jews/Christians/Muslims.

#9

That’s the one. The uncaused cause, and all that.

#10

I believe the word you’re looking for is the Abrahamaic faiths - that would be a more neutral expression :cool:

Labels are so politically charged these days :frowning:

#11

Careful there. Even the polytheistic faiths usually have some conception of a supreme being that is as above the gods as they are over us.

#12

eesh, I’m hoping this thread doesn’t offend anyone.

#13

Superman is a god, Zeus is a God and the creator of the universe is GOD.

GOD is not bound by anything by definition because he created it. You wouldn’t blame the creator of a game because someone cheated. GOD is not human so to imply those characteristics would be a logical error. It can’t kill or torture. It is all just. If I make a chair and over time it gets worn and is now poking me with splinters is it wrong for me to destroy it? Maybe I decide to sand it down and refinish it. Now it is as good as new and even has more character then before. Something I am happy to have in my home. IYKWIM :wink:

God’s are supernatural deities. I have never seen them described as GOD, they are deities with human emotions and behaviors. Very similar to what you said.

As far as this discussion goes god is really a blanket term to descried the unfair balance between Sups and others. It is not to imply ethics, morals or religion. There are many gods and the time may come to have a god league. To us a sports analogy it is like having a team with Michael Jordan vs a team of College players. If it was 5 vs 1 they would have a good chance of winning but even if MJ had high schoolers backing him they would have a rough time of it. After all the dude can fly too. :stuck_out_tongue:

#14

I’m saying “no” based on:

He does age, even slowly but it happens
He has several weaknesses (magic being the most common)
He can be killed (hey, I think he just died again! -Blackest Night #5)

He only comes back because the publishing gods know it’s stupid to keep him dead.

At best, he is a demi-god. More like the heroes of Greek Myth. His closest matchs in power (Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman) are given part of the power of the gods, but not the whole deal and they’re his equals.
(and why aren’t people trying to take Wonder Woman as their warrior, huh?)

Unless you’re Grant Morrison, in which the whole point of “All Star Superman” was to make everyone believe in Superman as god.

#15

I don’t know if I’d say he’s a GOD necessarily, but his “abilities” are far beyond those of others, and through no effort of his own. He has no particular “skills” that I’m aware of that, without his powers would make him any more dangerous than the dude sitting across from you on the bus.

Part of me wants to say that he has the unfair advantage, but another part wants to say that he’d be a lousy pick because he amounts to no more than a strong-arm times a thousand.

The only thing about Superman that makes him even slightly unique is that, incredibly, he’s uncorrupted by his powers, retaining a high moral standard.

Sorry any Supes fans, but if there was a truly dangerous superhero to pick, it’d be Batman, who needs no superpowers, and still manages to capably take on super-powered big bads.

#16

Well he does exercise a lot of discipline so he doesn’t hurt people. (to paraphrase the youtube clip I posted)

but I will admit that batman can be the most dangerous of the heroes if he has time to prepare.

#17

The team of James T. Kirk and Spock killed gods all the time, bring 'em on!

#18

For the record, the dude in ST:V was not a god. What kind of god shoots frakkin laser beams out of his eyes? :rolleyes:…oh…wait. :frowning:

It is a good thing that Krypton was already gone by the time Star Fleet came around. The Enterprise would be boned by Red Sun Kryptonians, not to mention the Yellow Sunner. :stuck_out_tongue:

#19

James T. Kirk was killing gods waaaayyy before that bearded fool showed up. Just off the top of my head, there was:

Gary Mitchell (god by phenomenon)
Landru (computer god)
Apollo (loincloth god)
Redjac (demon, really)
Vaal (paper mache mountain god)

And not to toot my own horn here, but Spock came back from the frakkin dead!! So yeah, I don’t even think I need the other two folks, Kirk and Spock would totally lay waste to those red sun soaking Kryptonians. In fact, who da ya think started the chain reaction for the red sun to go nova? Huh? Huh!?!

I am totally making that last part up. That never happened. sshhh, don’t tell anyone.

#20

OH MY!!! That’s awesome!

Have you ever even seen a Kryptonian chick? They are smokin’ hot and Spock would have a mindgasm if he were able to shoot the breeze with Jor-El. Also, wouldn’t they be crushed by the gravity and atmospheric pressure. :eek:

One more thing, when did this become a scene from a Kevin Smith movie? :stuck_out_tongue: