That’s fine if it’s Dumbledore. Point is. SOMEBODY had to save him in order for him to go back in time to save himself. Also way to misuse Occam’s Razor bro. What’s more reasonable and logical: Harry somehow travels through time after getting his soul sucked out/killed in order to save himself or the loop goes around twice? Yeah not the first
GWCF where somebody dead can go back in time to save themselves from being killed. Sigh.
Why are you all being so obtuse, I’m not attacking the quality of the books. The theory laid out in the OP does NOTHING detrimental to the book or the events in it. It serves to make the events that happened in the book actually possible.
You can’t have both. You can’t argue that in one story, the “original” timeline happened differently, so it’s okay and that in the other story, the “original” timeline must happen exactly the same.
If you go that route, then in the first timeline, maybe Harry actually survived the dementor attack, but Sirius didn’t. We never know that Harry absolutely would have died, because he never actually dies. So, he survived the “first” pass through the dementor attack, then travelled back in time to save Buckbeak and in the process manages to save Sirius and it only looks like he is saving himself, too. Then, every “future” iteration of this loop is fine.
And again, you are looking at time fourth-dimensionally as a single time-line moving forward. You have to step even further way from that and look at it from outside, where the whole timeline already exists. As an example, when JK Rowling wrote the story, there was never a version where Harry died. In the story, Harry has always gone back and patronus’d off the dementors. The universe that Harry Potter takes place in, whether created by a supremem being (deity or intelligent force) or by random chance, that universe was created whole cloth in one instand, which includes the entire timeline. The loop was created at the same time as the universe, so it has always and will always exist.
The wiki you linked deals with self-fulfilling prophecies where in you do something to try and change it only for what you wanted to change to occur anyway. That’s not what happened in Harry Potter 3 and it’s inclusion is silly.
Why are you all being so obtuse?
First of all, I hope that in future discussions on a GWC forum, you don’t insult the other members. What I linked is in no way “silly.” If you’d taken the time to actually read it, you’d see that the specific instance you are bringing up from Prisoner of Azkaban is listed amongst the others. Our beliefs and opinions do not make us obtuse.
This is a classic example of a Predestination Paradox. Here’s another link if you want to know more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_paradox
A predesitination paradox is where an event occurs that invalidates the time travel that follows it. The time travel may seem to come first in some circumstances, but this is just due to the first person perspective of the time stream. For example, you travel into the past, meet a woman, and you have a child. The woman ends up being your great-grandmother and the child is your grandfather. Sure, from your point of view the time travel happened first. From the time stream’s point of view, your arrival in the past happened first. A being arrived from the future and had a child, the child’s lineage eventually produces the being who must now travel in time to begin the loop anew. If he did not, he would never exist, therefore, he always has.
You want a real mind-twister, read David Gerrold’s “The Man Who Folded Himself.” I won’t spoil it for you, but it makes all of the aforementioned paradoxes seem like child’s play.
For this instance, though, you can really only look at it one of two ways. Either Harry has always gone back and saved himself, thus a time loop exists that has always existed … or, perhaps more easy to believe or understand, Harry wouldn’t have actually died and instead travelled into the past for other reasons (ie. to save Buckbeak) and in addition created the illusion that he saved himself from the dementors.
Of course, there’s a third way, called hand-wavium, where you just relax, suspend your disbelief and enjoy the story.
I didn’t insult you. I was saying it being part of that wiki page was silly since that’s not the time travel involved. Nothing against you
Also the idea that the universe was created in this way without any logical progression isn’t sound. He can’t go back in time unless he’s saved but he can’t save himself unless he’s saved. So somebody else saved him. Then he goes back and saves himself, then that Harry goes back after seeing himself save himself and saves himself again. That’s the end of the loop
Why are you all being so obtuse, I’m not attacking the quality of the books. The theory laid out in the OP does NOTHING detrimental to the book or the events in it. It serves to make the events that happened in the book actually possible.
I personally find these types of remarks to be insulting. You posted something, others offered their opinions and alternate ideas, and you dismissed them as not being relevant, called our information silly, and called us obtuse. How is this not insulsting?
I never once thought you were attacking the quality of the books. That would have been an entirely different discussion. We’re just pondering theories of time travel and I offered alternatives to the one you linked. I find the one you linked to be interesting. It reminds me of Marvel’s old “No Prize” award. If Marvel had something in a comic that broke continuity and you pointed it out, they wouldn’t respond. But, if you instead offered an explanation that didn’t change the story, but fixed the continuity break, then you would be awarded a “no prize.”
I believe that the instance of time travel you are referring to in HP3 is identical to the time travel in T1, from the point of view outside the timeline.
I disagree, obtuse to me means not being willing to open your mind to other ideas. The theories posted in opposition to the OP are boiled down to how it was specifically said in the books (Which doesn’t make sense) and “It’s magic”/Stop thinking about it. Both of which don’t really count imo.
I agree with you about Terminator & PoA being similar but under the same circumstances that there was a timeline in which it was different before Time Travel was introduced.
REGARDLESS I apologize that you took my comments that way, it wasn’t my intent
You are playing the Warden Norton to my Andy Dufresne. 
You may not be long for this world when you realize you have been caught in this lie.
Also way to misuse logic bro.
It would be easier to find a Vulcan comedian than one that could make sense of that mess. What is logical about Hermione being able to do a Patronus, she never even tried before that night.
I guess I took it as an insult, because I am willing to open my mind to new ideas. Since it was not meant as such, I won’t take it that way and I hope no bad feelings need remain. No apology needed, but accepted nonetheless.
The idea originally proposed is interesting. The writer took far more time than I ever did and came up with a brilliant idea of how the facts could have unravelled in such a way that no paradox is created. My theory is not “magic” or “stop thinking about it”, but instead an alternate view of time than the parallel timelines theory or duplicate Hermione theory. You don’t have to like it, but you shouldn’t dismiss it out of hand just because you prefer the other. Time travel discussions are fun and can lead to sitting at IHOP as the sun rises, pouring another cup from your sixth pot of coffee and realizing you have great friends who love talking about the same type of geeky stuff you do.
That’s it me v you right now
RASENGAN
Would you mind restating it then? I must have missed a nuance or two
I think Default’s correct in that it doesn’t really “work.” I understand the idea that Harry is saved by his future self, but as mentiond, a certain timeline Harry has to survive to save him. If you’re going to allow some fuzzy logic I suppose it doesn’t seem too far off, but the sequence of events presented in the book seem to indicate that your future self can save your present self so that you will then save your past self, thereby confirming your continued existence.
Also, Hermione apparently never aged more despite taking twice as many classes as everyone else.
Free will and an unalterable timeline are not mutually exclusive. Just because you have always made a choice and will always make the same choice, doesn’t mean you didn’t choose to make that choice. Time travel is just complicated, has many different theories, and no actual proof of anything since it is, at this point, just theory. We are really just arguing opinion of science fiction.
I’m not even really arguing, because I don’t have a definitive theory on time travel. I just like discussing it and offering alternatives. Again, the simplest is that in the so-called “first” timeline, the dementors didn’t kill Harry. Come up with whatever excuse you want to allow that to happen and there is no paradox. Perhaps the dementors knew that Voldemort would want to kill him himself and instead were just tormenting him each time it appeared like they were trying to kill him. Perhaps the “first” Hermione summoned help. Harry then lived to go back in time. The “first” Harry was just saving Sirius, the byproduct of which made each following incarnation of himself think he was saving himself.
Also, Hermione apparently never aged more despite taking twice as many classes as everyone else.
Say they have five classes a day and Hermione actually doubles up each class, as opposed to only when two classes she wants to take conflict, then you’re still only dealing with an extra five hours, maybe six with travel, a day. That’s 30 hours a week with a five day school week. 52 weeks in a year, minus 12 for summer and 3 for holidays and you have 37 weeks. That would be 1110 extra hours, which is only 46 or so extra days. I don’t think she would have aged too noticeably in a month and a half unless she hit a crazy adolescent growth spurt. But, there might be potions for that.
Let’s keep us the discussion, because it’s fun. Let’s just remember to be polite and respect other people’s ideas.
/scratches head, isn’t your theory basically my theory? I mean we both agree he’d need to not die in order to go back in time.
You also have to take into account extra study time but I agree, it’s not significantly aging. Which is why it’s allowed probably.
Y’know what they say; never discuss sex, religion, politics, or time travel…
I agree that in a linear timeline Harry does in fact need to not die in order to go back and save himself. I’ve offered suggestions for this, as did the article linked in the original post.
However, I also suggested originally that a timeline could come into existence with the loop already in it, thereby negating the need. Harry never died, because he always came back to save himself. This is where we differed.
Again, I’m not arguing either to be true, because we are discussing fiction. I just offer ideas and some of those do sync up with yours.
Is that it? Your Jutsu is as weak as that theory, take this! 
Psh way to be a sucky Uchiha.
You keep arguing that Harry could not save himself if he died, which was inevitable. He was in the woods, the dementors were there and ready to kill him and Sirius. (I use “kill” rather flexibly… the point being they would no longer be really “alive”)
I choose to see it in the reference that Dumbledore presents to Harry for why Harry was “The Chosen One”
Voldemort qualified Harry as “The Chosen One” from the prophecy when he chose to kill Harry. The result of the entire prophecy rests on that fact and that alone, and frankly Voldemort was never going to choose any other way. He could have, and the prophecy wouldn’t have worked out to the point that Harry was “marked” (statement left out for the sake of spoilers) and would eventually be the one to take him down. You might say “But that happened all in linear order”, but that’s not my point. As someone else noted, when it comes to time travel, Effect does not necessarily have to follow Cause. The natural order of occurrence does not apply.
Harry could have chosen any other option, but he didn’t. Predestination aside for a moment, we can’t look at Time as a series of events that’s either going to happen or has happened objectively. I think the only way we can look at them is that they do happen.
The only reality is the one where Hermione attends both classes at once, and Harry is saved by Harry. It does happen, as opposed to will or won’t. Harry (as I recall) wanted to see his dad. Only being there and not finding his dad did he realize it was him and performed the spell.
Finally, I think we have the opportunity to understand here that instead of being based on physics as technology in SciFi is, Magic is fantastic and not reliant on the relatity of the existing world and universe. At some point we either argue that Magic is a form of technology (as the popular quote states) or that Magic is extraenous from technology, and therefore could not even be replicated by technology. Perhaps TimeTurner magic functions by creating a copy of a person to accomplish everything you do before you do it just in case you don’t do it so you can do it.
I prefer the Timelord approach. Wibbley Wobbley…