Training your abs 101

Heya gang, this kinda’ a crosspost from the general Fitness thread regarding a good conversation on Twitter today. I’ve ported the post to this thread so I could build on it, but primarily to get rid of the gym jargon I used the first time around.

The discussion was around whether to do sit ups or crunches using weights, or just using your body weight (i.e. without weights)

General Comments
OK, before we get into some of the exercises, let’s make one thing clear: doing thousands of sit ups every day will not give you a well defined set of cover-model abdominal muscles. Period. End of discussion. That is all diet and really low body fat %. Guys tend to get well defined “six-pack” abs at around 7-8% body fat, and that is primarily the result of diet. There’s a saying: Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym.

How to approach training your Abs
Here’s some current research on the topic: http://www.flexonline.com/training/a...fast-rep-speed

That being said, a balanced approach to training your abs (and your core) is usually the best way to go. Why?

Different kinds of exercise uses different kinds of muscle fibres, as well as different muscles. An easy way to think about the types of muscle tissue (aka Muscle fibres) is broadly in terms of fast twitch or slow twitch. If you think about your legs, jumping vertically is an explosive ‘fast-twitch’ action that requires a quick, powerful contraction. Inversely, performing a leg-press requires strength without the explosiveness, which is more ‘slow twitch’. This is kind of an over simplification, but should illustrate the point.

Unless you’re training for a specific sport that really requires one kind over another (sprinting, power lifting) then you get a more effective workout from a fitness perspective if you can train both.

Another thing to keep in mind is training your ‘core’ versus just your abs. Core training pertains to training not only your abdominal muscles, but the supporting muscles around your mid-section, including your back. In the last 5 years, there has really been a move to core fitness, and pilates and yoga are great examples of this.

Yet another way to approach building core strength is by using large, multi-joint movements that require you to stabilize yourself. Great examples of this are built into the principals of CrossFit and especially in the so called “big-lifts” like the squat, and the clean-and-jerk.

Don’t get me wrong though, there is still plenty of room for the classics in any well rounded training plan, and most of them can be done at home as well!

My Approach to training Abs
I try to work in focused excercises that target my abs three days a week. Don’t feel that you have to start here, and don’t worry if your abdominal and core strength isn’t where you want it to be on day one. You’ll notice that your abs and core respond really well to training!

Super-setting
I tend to train more for general fitness than for body building. Shorter rest periods that keep my heart rate up rather than heavy weights with long rest periods in between that allow you to lift heavier. A common term for substituting another excercise in place of a rest is known as “super-setting”. i.e. lifting or curling a dumbbell to work your bicpets then doing pushups instead of resting would be super-setting arms with push-ups.

There are two basic ways to approach super-setting: the first is to alternate complementary muscle groups (i.e. super-set biceps with shoulder or triceps) - this allows your primary muscle group to recover somewhat during the second exercise. The second approach is to keep working the same muscle group, but in a different way. This keeps it under stress, but either use different muscle fibres (slow twitch vs. fast twitch) or a different part of the same muscle (a great example is the chest, or ‘pecs’ which you can focus on the inside, top, or bottom depending on what you do). I’m not lifting weights to add size, so I tend to use the second approach to keep the weights down, and heart-rate up.

Sets & Reps
This is basic gym terminology that a lot of people take for granted. If a person lifts the same weight ten times, they have done 10 repetitions or ‘reps’. If you repeat the series of 10 reps for times, you have done 4 sets.

Set #1 (Repeat 3-4 times)

  • 10 hanging leg lifts: Start with knees bent as in the linked video, and as you develop strength, try straightening your legs. Remember, unless you lift your knees past 90-degrees (i.e. your thighs parallel to the ground), you’re mainly working your hips and not your abs. If hanging leg raises are too hard on your shoulders, there is this way of doing it as well, or this way.
  • 20 weighted swiss-ball crunches: When I do swiss ball crunches I focus on going slow, and concentrating on my form and stability. To add weight, I grab a 45 lb weight (a ‘plate’ in gym lingo) and hold it close to my chest. You can also grab dumbbells, kettle-bells, sand bags or medicine balls. Doing your crunches on a ball requires you to stabilize yourself side-to-side so your don’t fall off, so it’s great for overall core strength. When you’re doing sit-ups on a ball, feel free to play with your foot positioning to balance off stability with safety. Falling off a swiss ball holding a 45 lb weight bruises more than your ego - trust me. Also, with a swiss ball it’s important not to bounce, and to get the most out of the range of motion - go slow all the way back and all the way up)
  • 20 ‘alternatingswiss ball crunches: Still a swiss ball crunch, but because you’re not using any weight, you can go faster and recruit different muscle fibres. Also, because you’re crossing over your body, you work a couple of different muscle groups: your serratus and obliques
  • 30-45 second rest.

Set #2 (Repeat 4 times)

  • Cable crunches: I usually do four sets, 12x, 12x, 8x, 8x. If you’re new to cable crunches, start with a lighter weight to get the range of motion correct, and use a rope instead of two handles. There are Lots of videos on line showing good form and bad form. My first two sets of 12 are done using a moderate weight, my last two are done with a heavier weight.
  • 30 Mason twists I usually do these unweighted, but if I’m feeling strong, I’ll grab a 35lb plate, or a medicine ball if one is handy - listen to your body, and keep those legs up!
  • 30-45 second rest

Miscellaneous

  • If you find yourself on a weight bench working your chest or arms, why not work in a super-set of crunches on the bench. It’s a great way of maximizing your time at the gym!
  • Swiss ball pikes (get in a push-up position with your legs on a ball and ‘pike’ your legs up. I dread these, but try to do them a couple times a week

In closing
There’s a ton of different approaches and exercises out there for your abs, and don’t even get me started on core training (Plank & side plank FTW! These days, its all about the core baby.). Find what works for you.

NOTE(S) OF CAUTION
There is a lot of ‘controversy’ regarding how hard you should train your obliques and transverse abdominals, if at all. This all depends on what your personal fitness goal is: not everyone is training for the same reasons. Obliques and transverse abdominals lie on the side of your abs, effectively under your ‘love handles’. For obvious reasons, if you train them, like any muscle, they will grow. Many body builders and fitness models avoid training obliques and transverse abs like the plague, to emphasize a V-shaped taper from their shoulders to the waist. MMA fighters and football & rugby players train their obliques and transverse abs really hard to increase lateral core strength. The same ‘controversy’ exists for really heavy weighted crunches and cable crunches, although to a lesser degree. I work my obliques and transverse abs really hard by adding in a couple other exercises with big weights as I’m more focused on functional strength, and less on pure aesthetics. Again, figure out what your goals are, read as much as you can, ask a ton of questions, consult a trainer if it’s in your price range, then get ready to sweat!

Wolverines!

Gosh, I haven’t heard the words “fast twitch” & “low twitch” since I was a recruit in the army in 2000 - that’s how outta touch I am!

In the case of not getting caught up in semantics (i.e. cause & effect), and for the sake of this discussion (just so we’re on the same page);
Can we say that “fast twitch” is analogous to words like “power” & “strength”?

And the “slow twitch” is analogous to words like “endurance”, “character building” (heheh)?

What then, are muscle toning routines classified under?

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Good stuff, thanks.

I wondering how bodybuilder guys get ripped abs when they’re eating six times a day.

That being said, I appreciate shows like “Spartacus” which I feel their body types are quite authentic to the kind of training regimen (which was also authentic - these guys did their homework!) gladiators had, back in the day.

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Two good questions. Bodybuilders really focus on diet, the right ratio of protein:carbs:fats. I TOTALY defer to chuck on his knowledge of macronutrient ratios here. Leading up to a competition or photo shoot, much like a fighter cutting to make weight before a fight, diet changes radically. Take a look at this article on how radically diet changes for the pros leading up to a completion and/or photo shoot. Yeah, they don’t look like that 24/7.

As far as Spartacus workouts go, there are quite a few floating around the internet. The one I read, which was in Muscle & Fitness last year, was Doctore’s workout. A lot of complex multi-joint lifts, lots of body weight training and really long super-sets consisting of 8 back-to-back exercises with minimal rest. Of course, they were on a crazy hard-core meal plan at the same time.

Consider this: Targeted fat loss is pretty much a myth (as in “I can do tonnes of sit ups if I want ripped abs”). The surest way to “tone” is to decrease overall body fat %. Lifting weights does do a lot of things that can contribute to this. Building a routine that incorporates lots of “high rep, low rest period” sets keeps your heart rate up, burning more calories than longer rest periods - it’s not how you’re actually lifting. As well, muscle tissue has higher metabolic needs at rest (i.e. burns more calories) than other forms of connective tissue, so it aids in losing body fat, & therefore you look more toned. Cardio, by its very nature, accomplishes the same thing… So, what I’m trying to say is there is no such thing as lifting for toning, but you can train to maintain a higher heart rate throughout your workout by decreasing rest periods, and doing a higher number of reps in each set. Diet is probably going to be the single biggest factor here though. As Solai pointed out once, it’s a numbers game. If your calories expended is greater than calories consumed, you will lose body fat, and start getting more toned :slight_smile:

Thanks for the info! I’ve been learning a lot these past 2 days.

Just so we’re on the same page, I’m under no illusion that muscle toning & fat loss are 2 separate things. By “muscle toning” I mean to say “firming up” those saggy chicken wings & whatnot, IYKWIM.

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I got it: nett loss of caloric intake coupled with the correct training regimen (for one’s particular body type) leads to fat loss, which leads to the perception of “muscle toning”.

However, I’m of the opinion that muscle fibres can get trained to be get more taut - regardless of fat loss. If you look at sumo wrestlers - they’re more athletic than regular people, you don’t see that because their food intake regimen (it’s actually regulated) gives them that round shape. Yes? No? Maybe?

Secondly, I read a lot about bodybuilders complaining that most guys don’t do weight training routines with the correct “form”; and that’s detrimental to activating the proper muscles that were intended for that particular workout? Any thoughts?

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Fat loss is solely diet. a fitness training regimen is getting your body into shape so it functions properly. The combination gives you overall good health.

Duely notesmd, ma’am

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FWIW, I think there’s a lot of very extreme information floating around. Generally the answers are more complex than the simple(/extreme) ones we find floating around.

Let me start this by noting that I’m not an expert at all about any of this. I know a tiny bit shared with me from my trainer, and I have some experience in trying different things and seeing the results. I’m actually working on a project with some actual experts to try and gather some of this basic information into a relatively easy-to-consume package – hey, it’s what we do – but in the meantime, a couple of thoughts:

I eat six times a day, and sometimes seven. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m eating more – that’s a separate issue – but that I’m breaking the calories I take in into six meals instead of three. There’s been a lot of talk (and hokey articles written) about eating late vs. not eating late and so on, and while I generally agree with the idea that this is one of those things that can make a small difference ONLY if you’re already doing most everything else right, it is worth noting that there actually does exist an intake/expenditure cycle in terms of calories. You eat, your body absorbs the food, you burn it. This all takes time. It’s pretty much impossible to accurately measure that since it depends on so many different environmental variables. Still, you can experience it first-hand, like when you work out on empty and run out of energy.

So back to the eating late thing. The whole process is time-based, right? It doesn’t happen immediately. Yet when you draw on the energy, it comes from somewhere, right? Any energy deficit will have to come from somewhere: you can burn either muscle or fat, and yes, exercise type can affect that (in yet different complex ways). So if you’re at a surplus AT THAT MOMENT, you burn neither. If you’re at a deficit, you’re gonna burn something. Can you see where this is leading? :slight_smile:

This is where the “don’t eat late during fat loss” stuff comes in. You’re very likely to be sedentary for 5-8 hours overnight, so your burn requirements are quite low. If you eat a ton of food and go to bed, some portion of that will likely end up stored as fat because the energy isn’t needed at the time it’s processed. Worse yet, if you’re working out during the day and you’ve shorted yourself meals (so you have those calories to eat late, for example), you might end up burning significant muscle during the day (depending on lots of other factors). It’s even possible to work backwards, losing muscle despite intense workouts and lots of food. I’ve actually experienced this, sadly.

I’m trying to build muscle right now, so I want to be at a net positive as often as possible during each 24 hour period, both to assure that I don’t burn muscle while working out and to make sure that as the torn muscle heals it has all the nutrients it needs to rebuild. To do this, I spread my food out throughout the day. I work to eat as close to 250 cal over my burn each day as possible (generally shoot for 300-500 and end up close), which recently has ended up being 3,200 - 3,800 cal a day. I front-load a little, and I carb-load a little in the morning (put more of the carbs in the morning than the evening). Most of my meals are 500-700 calories. My overall balance right now is 20% fat, 40% carb, 40% protein. I get pretty close to it. Most of the time my meals are around 6:30a, 9:30a, 12:30p, 3:30p, 7p, and 10:30p (or right before bed). My last meal is specifically loaded with a mix of carbs and casein protein, a protein which breaks down slowly, which hopefully will keep me fed overnight. Recently, I’ve started putting a little pre-packaged 110 cal whey protein drink on the nightstand to drink if I happen to wake up during the overnight. What the hell, right?

Here’s a normal day for me right now:

Breakfast (710 cal): Oatmeal (80g dry), Strawberries (200g), Skim Milk (1/4 cup), crushed almonds (12), 6 egg whites (Egg Beaters), a banana.

Mid-Morning Snack (610 cal): peanut butter coffee protein shake (espresso, fat-free yogurt, protein powder, skim milk, peanut butter), edamame

Lunch (481 cal): Chicken breast (110g), Sweet Peas (280g), Edamame

Mid-Afternoon Snack (670 cal): shake (above, but less protein powder), edamame, banana

Dinner (587 cal): Chicken breast (110g), vegetable medley (bag steamed), big-ass bowl of Arctic Zero (yeah, I’m a pig), crushed almonds

Late Snack (200 cal): Fat-Free cottage cheese (185g), strawberries (200g)

I’ll sometimes add in pre-made protein/meal-replacement shakes as pre-workout food if I end up working out at low-energy periods or in supplement of the last meal or overnight. You get the idea. I’m not suggesting this is what anyone else should do. I’m just pointing out one example of how eating six meals can work.

I know this all probably sounds crazy. When Audra first came home and said “my trainer told me to eat six times a day” I told her it was utter bullshit. (I know. It’s embarrassing.) But last time I was gaining I ate three or four meals, and some of them can end up being 1,500-2,500 calories. That’s just too much to eat in one sitting, and I know it sabotaged me.

Short version: You generally need to run a deficit to lose fat and you need to run a surplus to add muscle. Yes, it’s theoretically possible to do both at the same time, but it’s pretty damn rare, and if it can be done I suspect it takes a lot more commitment, organization, and professional know-how than most of us have access to.

Wow – out of time. I’ll try to get back to this later. #morefunthanwork

And that last post, my fellow alpacas, is why I defer to Chuck. Sir, awesome insight into nutrition in your last post (as always). /bows

I can attest to this. I was doing lat pulldowns as part of my workout, but never felt like I was getting any benefit in my lats, but I was feeling it in the shoulders and biceps a bit. I dropped my weight, and found I didn’t have to cheat with other muscles to pull the weight. My back was sore as hell the next morning, and I’m definitely feeling the results a few workouts later.

Heheh, I use the lats pulldown machine to train for my pull ups. Is it better to use the machine standing up or sitting down?

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Good stuff. Always time to learn new things.

-Trey