Tory became a monster quicker than I thought

[Armando]

Scary, yes. Disturbing? Not in the way I meant it. Disturbing is when you identify with a character going down the dark path and understand their choices – when you can say, “yes, I might have gone there.” That would require seeing the transition and understanding it.

Tory is no longer sympathetic. That was all a mask.

Turns out Head Baltar might have been wrong to say “she’s fragile.”

Tory was never a fleshed-out enough character to begin with for a transition to be possible, let alone necessary. She was a secondary player suddenly thrust into the limelight by the circumstances of her identity (both as a literary character and as a “real” person on the show).

A review of the episode I read through Galactica Sitrep, though, put it perfectly: previously, Tory had been all business. Hair straightened and pulled back, quiet, reserved, professional. Now she is letting herself go a little bit and indulging in more “earthy” delights. Her hair is lose and wild; she indulges in drinking and sex; she even finds herself quite capable of murder. The knowledge that she is a cylon has presented her with an excuse/opportunity for indulging her basest needs and desires.

I wonder, though, if things would be the same had Billy not been killed off…

[GalaxyRanger]

I don’t know, man. She was pretty disturbing in this episode.

Terminator Tory !!!

I wonder when she’ll start saying things like “Hasta la vista, Cally” and “I’ll be back”

[NormanDoering]

Tory was never a fleshed-out enough character to begin with for a transition to be possible, let alone necessary.

In some ways I see your point, the changes will be clearer with Chief and Tigh as they go down the path. Tigh is going to have to confront a lot for already being a monster of sorts - he’s just a monster playing for the other side now. We know who Tigh and Cheif were to some extent. Still, Tory’s tears from the previous episode seemed to promise more conflicted humanity than was delivered.

[John_from_Monon]

I’m hearing a lot about all the conflicting emotions our “newbie” cylons are going through, But I’m really curious how Cally’s son gets back to Chief without him seeing him with Tory because I think it will be more than obvious what happened. How will Chief react to Tory then, or for that matter how will all the “Final Five” take having an innocent human murdered to protect their anonymity! Talk about a bloody baptism.

[Eftiel]

Cally was also very disturbing to watch. She used to be idealistic and politically involved/aware. Suddenly she’s popping pills and carrying her baby around the ship while she’s high and freaking out. Then she decided that killing herself and her baby was her only option… Rough stuff man.

[Solai]

Cally-haters unite! Solai, where are you?

Reporting for duty!

<cracks open champagne>

Today is a good day. A Cally free day. Although…truth be told…I liked her a little without those stupid bangs. The hair swoop worked. The character did not.

[Old_Timer]

In some ways I see your point, the changes will be clearer with Chief and Tigh as they go down the path. Tigh is going to have to confront a lot for already being a monster of sorts - he’s just a monster playing for the other side now. We know who Tigh and Cheif were to some extent. Still, Tory’s tears from the previous episode seemed to promise more conflicted humanity than was delivered.

Just because Tigh is now on the other side, does not meant that he’ll play for the other side - does it? And there’s the matter of that missing right eye.

[GalaxyRanger]

Just because Tigh is now on the other side, does not meant that he’ll play for the other side - does it? And there’s the matter of that missing right eye.

The “missing Cylon-ness?”

[Magnus]

She’s more machine than man now, twisted and evil

[NormanDoering]

Just because Tigh is now on the other side, does not meant that he’ll play for the other side - does it? And there’s the matter of that missing right eye.

Tigh might be the easiest yet to turn. Only his hate keeps him on the human side.

[hicks]

I can’t believe how quickly she was ready to believe that Chief was in fact a cylon. You’d think if she loved him, she’d argue with herself that she didn’t hear it correctly and wait for more evidence.

[NormanDoering]

Circuitry is thicker than Blood: Spoiler review of “The Ties that Bind”
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/04/circuitry-is-thicker-than-blood-spoiler.html

Here’s a taste:

In the end, it was Tory who made the seemingly “rational,” if monstrous, decision to kill Cally while pretending to risk her life to help her. If Tory hadn’t done that there would have been no real way to assure herself that Cally wouldn’t reveal their secret to other humans. Tory could have asked Cally to keep their secret, trust her husband, and trust her since she was helping, include Cally in Cylon meetings so she knows what they’re dealing with. But that probably would have been a mess considering Cally’s emotional state.

In the end, if Cally was really going to kill herself and her child, then the net result of all Tory’s actions were to save the child (but for what end? Tory risked her life for the child.)

Cally on the other hand was stupidly human. She would, herself, had to have become cold blooded and kept her cool to win the game against the Cylons. She could have, if she were emotionally able, went along with her husband’s promises, hugged him, then collected evidence, until she had enough to give to the Doctor, Adama and/or the president. But you know those humans, they’re just not all that rational. They often let their feelings tear themselves apart instead of acting rationally.

Even when it came to attacking her husband Cally left the note, the only evidence she had, behind when it was no longer prudent to do so. And if she wanted the Cylons dead, she should have kept hammering at her husband’s skull until his brains splattered out. Nothing she did was smart. But, it’s like Nietsche said:

“Those who fight monsters should take care that they never become one. For when you stand and look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you.”
– Frederich Nietsche

And that seems to be the overall theme of the new Battlestar Galactica. How monstrous do the humans have to be? Can they ever find any shared “humanity” with their enemy? Will they ever try?

[Old_Timer]

Tory had to save the hybrid boy. For all the obvious reasons.

[NormanDoering]

Just because Tigh is now on the other side, does not meant that he’ll play for the other side - does it? And there’s the matter of that missing right eye.

Tigh already is playing for the Cylons, he just won’t admitted to himself. If any of the Cylons wanted to play for the human side all they would have to do is hide a recorder or video camera somewhere at the next Cylon meeting (a meeting they set up) and after the meeting give the recording to Adama or the president.

As long as they’re in hiding they’re at least not committed to the human side.

[Starbutt]

Tory is disturbing. Humans can find themselves in a position where for the better good they are forced to do something that is morally or ethically despicable. But most humans would be tormented, they would despair.

Tory dug it. Stood there, looked Cally right in the eye and opened the air lock.

[missmuffet]

I’m not sure that Tory’s monstrous nature was a result of her being a cylon. We don’t know much about Tory from before - but she has shown that she is capable of ruthless behavior. It was her idea to steal the election - she has shown that her moral compass is not what some would call pointing north. The idea that she would airlock Cally to protect herself and the others isn’t all that surprising to me.

[coco]

I liked her a little without those stupid bangs

Huh. I found her a little less cute without her bangs! Anyway, given her fragile state (with the lack of some mclovin’ from the chief, the wailing baby, and the cocktail of pills), I still think her response to the Chief, Tory and Tigh’s cyloninity was very reasonable. Wanting to kill her now half cylon baby, the representation of all that is false in her life? She can’t even trust her own child, given what the Chief is. That must have been brutal. There are more examples of mothers/fathers in real life that’ll kill their own child for a whole lot less.

Regardless of whether Tory is skeevy skanky homicidal terminator or not, I’m really enjoying them actually fleshing out her ‘identity’ and role in the scheme of things- given I couldn’t care two bits about her being a cylon prior to this season. I hope they would do something similar to Anders, another newbie cylon who seems kind of boring with all his Starbuck love. He’s kinda like the new Leoben now, especially with all that rough sex.

Anyway, even if Tory did turn out to be crazy evil, it goes back to this:- Every cylon is different, even if they might look the same. Some are evil, some aren’t. Just like some humans are evil, and some aren’t. It wouldn’t be any different for the final fives.

[Pike]

Just because Tigh is now on the other side, does not meant that he’ll play for the other side - does it? And there’s the matter of that missing right eye.

Just so you know, where I’m from ‘playing for the other side’ means something completely different.

Now I’ve got to find the mind bleach…

[KLCtheBookWorm]

Circuitry is thicker than Blood: Spoiler review of “The Ties that Bind”
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/04/circuitry-is-thicker-than-blood-spoiler.html

Here’s a taste:

In the end, it was Tory who made the seemingly “rational,” if monstrous, decision to kill Cally while pretending to risk her life to help her. If Tory hadn’t done that there would have been no real way to assure herself that Cally wouldn’t reveal their secret to other humans. Tory could have asked Cally to keep their secret, trust her husband, and trust her since she was helping, include Cally in Cylon meetings so she knows what they’re dealing with. But that probably would have been a mess considering Cally’s emotional state.

In the end, if Cally was really going to kill herself and her child, then the net result of all Tory’s actions were to save the child (but for what end? Tory risked her life for the child.)

Cally on the other hand was stupidly human. She would, herself, had to have become cold blooded and kept her cool to win the game against the Cylons. She could have, if she were emotionally able, went along with her husband’s promises, hugged him, then collected evidence, until she had enough to give to the Doctor, Adama and/or the president. But you know those humans, they’re just not all that rational. They often let their feelings tear themselves apart instead of acting rationally.

Even when it came to attacking her husband Cally left the note, the only evidence she had, behind when it was no longer prudent to do so. And if she wanted the Cylons dead, she should have kept hammering at her husband’s skull until his brains splattered out. Nothing she did was smart. But, it’s like Nietsche said:

“Those who fight monsters should take care that they never become one. For when you stand and look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you.”
– Frederich Nietsche

And that seems to be the overall theme of the new Battlestar Galactica. How monstrous do the humans have to be? Can they ever find any shared “humanity” with their enemy? Will they ever try?

I totally agree with that. And that ruthlessness has been hinted to being part of Tory’s make-up. How fast did she jump to rigging an election after all?

[Doc]

Huh. I found her a little less cute without her bangs! Anyway, given her fragile state (with the lack of some mclovin’ from the chief, the wailing baby, and the cocktail of pills), I still think her response to the Chief, Tory and Tigh’s cyloninity was very reasonable. Wanting to kill her now half cylon baby, the representation of all that is false in her life? She can’t even trust her own child, given what the Chief is. That must have been brutal. There are more examples of mothers/fathers in real life that’ll kill their own child for a whole lot less.

The reason she was in the airlock was to protect her baby from the Cylons not to destroy him. Cally wanted to go somewhere where the Cylons couldn’t get to them. Obviously, she wasn’t thinking clearly at the time, but she wasn’t really wanting to killer either herself or Nicky. When Tory talked her down, she came out of her shock enough to realize what she had almost done, and she started apologizing.

I think, given time, we would have seen Cally’s love for the Chief overcome her hatred of all things Cylon.

What I find interesting is Tigh’s comment about Chief’s “Cylon-hating wife.” Not all that long ago, I’m thinking Tigh would have been passing Cally more ammunition to kill Cylons with. This shows me that Tigh has already “changed sides” so to speak. He’s thinking more like a Cylon than a human no matter what fancy speech he gave at the end of The-Episode-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named.

The last of the FF’ers to give up their humanity will be Anders, I’m thinking. Cally’s death is going to push the Chief over the edge.