"Ties that bind" haters wanted

Television, Movies Games and Books BSG-2003
#1

I hated this episode. Not all of it, but out of the 42 minute running time, I hated about 35 minutes or so.

a) the story is moving way too fast as compared to the previous three seasons.

a1) all of a sudden, there’s talk about Laura being a dictator? how long did it take them to figure that out? secret executive orders? classified files? regular quorum meetings? it’s just weird to see all these new things without there ever having been any setup for it all.

a2) Cally’s taking pills and is a borderline nutcase? WELL MAYBE ALL OF THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE BELIEVABLE IF THOSE STORYLINES HAD BEEN INTRODUCED SLOWLY instead of in the space of a few minutes.

b) I didn’t buy Cally’s behavior. Not a single bit of it. She clocks Galen over the head with a wrench and then talks a walk through the ship to the airlock? Doesn’t make sense. Completely not logical. Why commit suicide? A mother doesn’t kill her own child, there’s now way in the 'verse she would do that. The Cally I know would have gone straight up to the old man and told him what she’d seen.

c) What’s up with the Starbuck soap opera ship? Everyone’s sweaty and the ship creaks like it’s gonna fall apart the next second? Oh and - how do they get into the two vipers? Do they have to climb into the cockpits in space suits and then change to a jock smock?

d) All the baby crying really really annoyed me. The Cally surreal flashback distorted Galen voice child’s stars&moon mobile lights flashing everywhere just wasn’t enough? The baby had to cry all the time UCK.

e) Tory has Cylon strength now? Tory is feeling new things? I thought they were exactly the same as before?

f) Why didn’t Cally just push the button and airlock the three of them? That’s what she wanted to do in the first place, right? To kill herself and her child?

I guess that’s all for now. I guess I could find more if I re-watched it but I don’t feel like it right now.

I liked the bits on the Cylon ships, though and I’ve said this before: what’s happening among the Cylons is far more interesting than what’s happening in the fleet.

Oh, and this might very subjective, but Anders really IS stupid. When Starbuck told him to just frak her, he should have left. Just gone out of the room, I mean, what kind of man endures his wife telling him that he is pathetic and weak and then admits to his weakness by having sex with her just so that she can “feel something” - if she doesn’t love him, he should dump her, but what is the point in have one night stands with your wife?

Now I’m really sorry for all this hating and stuff, but I have to say I’m quite disappointed by the storytelling. They had so much time to write all this stuff and I would have expected something better.

#2

Feel free to convince me otherwise, by the way, I’ll rewatch it soon I think and maybe my opinion will change.

#3

I actually thought the episode moved a little slowly in that regard.

This was introduced slowly. Cally was a borderline nutcase as early as the second season when she shot Boomer. After New Caprica and the events of the third season, I would imagine there is a small amount of courage that she got help on her own. It is not new that Cally is a nutter. That’s been there almost from the mini-series.

From all the anti-depressants she was taking she was likely having a manic episode. That was not the Cally you knew. That was a Cally with very fried brain cells. The way things were depicted resembled far too well what somebody goes through during a manic episode with a dash of psychosis mixed in.

She was manic but instinctive self-preservation kicked in. Unfortunately that moment of weakness led to Tori hitting her.

These are the few reasons I can proffer. Look at Cally in this as being just as mentally ill as before but now deviating somewhat from her proper treatment plan. This is merely where the character has been going.

#4

I liked this episode, actually, as brutal and depressing as it seemed. But I understand your concerns. Especially the part about Starbuck and her sewage ship. I can’t believe that Adama would let all his star viper pilots and workers(Helo (since he is CAG now. So now what Hot Dog’s CAG at Galactica?), Athena, Racetrack, and Gaeta) go with Starbuck? Who’s defending the Galactica and the other ships now? Unless Hot Dog got immensely good at what he does, it’s a little outrageous to see all the biggest pilots with Starbuck.

Only Anders, given his status as a nugget and as Starbuck’s husband, would actually make sense to be there.

I actually did expect Cally to go all nutso. I find it pretty in line with her character, especially in the relationship between her and the Chief. Add in some pills, and I can understand why she’d choose to airlock herself and the baby given what she’s found out. I did find Tory’s turn to evil a bit out of left field though. As I’ve mentioned in another thread, I think sleeping with Baltar makes the cylons go nuts.

And the whole Cavil plotting to really, really, kill off the 6s, 8s, presumably the 2s, and the centurions? That was awesome. Can’t wait to see what happens.

#5

Really? See, I’d say that we were introduced to so many new things that none of the new developments got the screen it time it actually deserved.

Who’s piloting the HMS Poo Barge, by the way? All we saw was some of the main character hanging out drinking coffee. Is it on auto pilot? What will happen to Starbuck once Anders outranks her?:slight_smile:

It is not new that Cally is a nutter.

Granted. I think what I was trying to say was that I would have been more believable had they established her marriage problems in the two previous episodes instead of just showing us flashbacks of the Chief and her fighting and stuff.

From all the anti-depressants she was taking she was likely having a manic episode. That was not the Cally you knew. That was a Cally with very fried brain cells. The way things were depicted resembled far too well what somebody goes through during a manic episode with a dash of psychosis mixed in.

So you’re saying it was the pills that made her suicidal instead of reporting to her superior officers? I mean, she’s a soldier, after all.

She was manic but instinctive self-preservation kicked in. Unfortunately that moment of weakness led to Tori hitting her.

I’m gonna dub her Terminator Tory. It looked like she just touched Cally with the back of her hand and Cally flew away ten meters or so. No chick is that strong. That is Cylon strength. And if she got, then so have the Chief and the others, whatever implications that might have.

The real questions is why is Tory that strong? I mean, you would assume that Cottle gives everybody a medical once in while and would detect a metallic arm or something.

These are the few reasons I can proffer. Look at Cally in this as being just as mentally ill as before but now deviating somewhat from her proper treatment plan. This is merely where the character has been going.

I get that. And I’m not saying my feelings towards this episode are not subjective. They clearly are.

Terminator Tory was brutal. Cally was depressed. The overall mood of the episode was depressing. But tell me how the Quorum meeting was brutal or depressing. It was just stupid. How does this government work. The president is presiding over the legislative body? Laura is ruling through executive orders? I’m sorry. That’s bullcrap. If the Quorum is the legislative assembly, then they MAKE the LAWS. And they should have the power to revoke any and all executive orders.

But I understand your concerns. Especially the part about Starbuck and her sewage ship. I can’t believe that Adama would let all his star viper pilots and workers(Helo (since he is CAG now. So now what Hot Dog’s CAG at Galactica?), Athena, Racetrack, and Gaeta) go with Starbuck? Who’s defending the Galactica and the other ships now? Unless Hot Dog got immensely good at what he does, it’s a little outrageous to see all the biggest pilots with Starbuck.

Agreed. Gaeta, in particular, he is the tactical officer and knows more about Galactica’s defenses and such things than anybody else. He is a security risk aboard that ship.

I actually did expect Cally to go all nutso. I find it pretty in line with her character, especially in the relationship between her and the Chief. Add in some pills, and I can understand why she’d choose to airlock herself and the baby given what she’s found out.

See, that’s where I differ. I thought Cally to be a revenge person and that was why she shot Boomer. And I would have expected her to either kill Tyrol or see that the three of them get thrown in the brigg or executed or something and not kill herself.

I did find Tory’s turn to evil a bit out of left field though. As I’ve mentioned in another thread, I think sleeping with Baltar makes the cylons go nuts.

And what’s with hitting on the Chief? Where did that come from?

And the whole Cavil plotting to really, really, kill off the 6s, 8s, presumably the 2s, and the centurions? That was awesome. Can’t wait to see what happens.

That was the coolest part of the episode and I’m also anxious to see how this will all play out.

#6

After thinking about it and sleeping on it, I liked this episode. I could buy most of Cally’s behavior because it was 3 weeks or so in the future from Six of One. I think given the time you can believe that this would probably happen. I kind of agree with the point on Roslin being a dictator now, but that really doesn’t take much away from the episode for me. I assume they can just wear their flight suits to get into the vipers. It should be fine for a few seconds. When the Blackbird was destroyed Lee survived for a while in his flight suit. The only thing I guess I don’t understand is how it would work in zero gravity. I doubt flight suits have any kind of magnetic locking device. I think Cally’s reaction kind of made sense. If the four of them were Cylons she probably felt she couldn’t go to anyone.

#7

The jock smock IS actually a space suit. If you recall Lee ejected from a the blackbird in Resurrection Ship part 2 and was floating in space in his jock smock.

#8

I’ve gotta go with Alpaca Herder on this one, Ranger. I actually knew ahead of time that Cally would die (maybe not on this episode, granted, but I’d read about Aaron Douglas’ “dead Cally, dead Cally” comments at one of the big conventions last summer) and was still shocked and surprised when it happened. I could believe that she would take out herself and her own baby. After all, she hates, hates, HATES Cylons and, through naivetee and sheer dumb luck, she finds herself in the middle of some frakked up Cylon destiny. That would drive anyone nuts. Someone on the borderline like that, who has gone through New Caprica, a husband who she grabbed out of desperation (after he nearly beats her to death) and is now weird and aloof and doesn’t help out with the baby (and let me tell you, after two nights of little to no sleep because of a crying baby–and the sound of a baby’s cry is, indeed, the most grating and annoying sound in the world, bar none–you start seeing the world REALLY difrerently), who is taking stims AND anti-depressants, well, that’s a woman on the edge already.

The one thing that threw off my suspension of disbelief is how different little Nikki looks from the way he looked at the end of season 3. It’s hard to hide the fact that your season that started immediately after the previous one ended was shot a year afterwards when the baby no longer looks so much like an infant but is now, obviously, a toddler. But, that was a small qualm with me.

I wish they’d spent more time on the Demetrius, though, and at the same time, I’m glad they left that whole mission a little bit mysterious and strange. The resolution of that storyline seems a bit easy to predict, but then, that may be a red herring all the same.

Most interesting, though, I found Lee’s new position in the Quorum of 12. What’s going to happen there? Will Zarek (so glad he’s back!) use him as a puppet or will Lee end up learning a thing or two and maneuver himself into a greater position of power, maybe ending up president by the time it’s all over? Or, will he aim to keep Laura honest and bring her back to her original ideals. This is a woman, after all, whose presidency he risked his career and his life for. He’s got to feel more than a little betrayed.

Cylon civil war? Surprisingly, not as interesting to me. Not yet, anyway. If they spend a little more time on that storyline, as I’m sure they will in the near future, then I might start getting more invested in it.

One thing, though: this season DOES feel different from the last two, at least. It does seem to be moving quickly, though I don’t think the individual episodes have been doing so any more or less than previous episodes. I think it’s the fact that we have a storyline that is continuing and being wrapped up from the season 3 finale that is related to the ENTIRE run of the show, rather than, like New Caprica or Bill’s shooting and Kobol, a sudden development from the end of the previous season. I find that rather exhilerating myself.

#9

Doesn’t this keep up a sort of quota for folks getting spaced per season? Leoben got spaced in the first season. Jammer got spaced in the third season. Cally has been spaced in the fourth. The only thing I cannot recall is if anybody got spaced in the second season.

#10

Bill and Laura got spaced in the second season…or was that the webisodes?

#11

Apparently nobody got spaced in the second season?

#12

No, but Billy died. Does that count too?

#13

A bunch of Sixes got spaced in Resurrection Ship, Part 2 and Sesha’s husband got spaced in Sacrifices.

#14

It’s funny that Cally got spaced once before but survived.

This was a powerful episode. But I found parts a little slow, like the Quorom bit. I am not too interested in the government thing and find Lee the least interesting of all characters on the series…so maybe it’s just me.
Oh one thing interesting about that Quorum scene was when they dubbed Jamie Bamber’s voice when he was saying the name of the previous Caprican delegate. I wonder why they did that? It was sooo obviously a dub.
Also, I think by the way Roslin looked at Zarek during Lee’s revelation of order 112, that she knew Zarek must have given him the file.

I agree with the complaint about the baby crying. That was excessive and is a good way to make viewers change the channel.

Anders isn’t dumb. He’s a Cylon who is totally wrapped up in a strange being full of destiny (Starbuck)…kind of like D’Anna is cookoo for Coco Puffs over the Final 5.

#15

i need to rewatch it, but i think it was Ceelix, not Racetrack aboard the poo barge to Earth

A minor example of the Chief’s cylon strength: His ability to take multiple whacks to the brain from gigantor space-wrench and coming out of it w/ just a nasty gash on his head and nothing worse…

#16

The guy whose wife went on to take hostages on Cloud Nine, leading to Billy’s eventual death. He got spaced during a Cylon attack.

It’s a stretch, I know, but there you go.

#17

Huh? Methinks thou missest the point.

#18

I don’t know what you mean, but periods of a baby crying on screen will make me turn the channel…I mean after 3 seconds I got the point, but enough’s enough.

Otherwise, a powerful episode. I hope they can keep this up all season…though I am not sure my adrenal glands can.

And not to be nitpicky on the show (but I love being nitpicky!)…what’s with the bad makeup? Did the makeup artist really think smearing dark purple on people’s eyes would make us think they were tired and stressed?

#19

I’m not going to change your mind they killed my Cally,

(well not mine really) but still they took her out and it was in a very odd way, she just seemed to be out of character, but hitting chief with the wrench was just awesome. still she was going to kill her baby??? i just didn’t see the jump there maybe herself but the kid. and Tory well Tory was one Bad mother Fracker and i digged it, she kind of reminded me of head six at that moment. the entire episode was off for me in some way.

Maybe its just cause they killed Cally and it poisoned the episode for me, but she just went nutbar and went to kill herself and the baby i just couldn’t get there, emotionally maybe with a little more of her going crazy in the episodes before would have done it.

and am the only one who thought it was strange that in the end Adama was telling the chief. I mean he’s the head honcho and all but if in past the man had been willing to have her shot and damn near did.for chiefs obediance i wouldn’t take any solace from him. of coarse i still don’t know how the chief works for Adama at all but that is another matter

the cylon stuff was cool, cause as Cavell kept giving ground and letting the others take over, i was like hell yeah were about to see some basestar exploding extravagansa, god i love those wacky no.1’s he’s officially my favorite model right now.

as for the Starbuck on her quest thing it was kind of boring i’m just going to start to call her Ahab pretty soon. and anders has got to stop sleeping with this woman, he’s just better than that.

wow so this is a lot longer than i thought, i liked the wrench, the Cylons. but they in my opinion kind dropped the ball on killing off Cally. you can take her out so long as you do it a powerful way, it just seemed a little offhanded the way they did it

#20

Yeah, probably.

I thought you were replying to my point about babies’ cries being the most obnoxious sound in the world, which I’ve learned from experience. I guess, though, that I’ve also been desensitized to it on TV and media. So there you go.

Or, you know, we could start a flame war over something silly like this, as they would on other forums. :wink: