Star Wars without Lucas

Television, Movies Games and Books Star Wars
#1

I have been turning this thought over in my head for sometime now and wanted to share it with you, especially given the excellent podcasts on the Star Wars universe.

I have been pretty clear on my view of the prequels: I am not a hater, but I am dissapointed in their execution on multiple levels. 'nuff said.

What bears some investigation is this: Should the Star Wars universe move forward without Lucas? From everything said so far in the podcast I am starting to wonder. Specifically it appears that other writers, producers, cartoonists and directors have created a rich background that fleshes out so much of what was in the prequels you wonder why the information wasn’t there. More importantly tho is when I start thinking about Timothy Zahn’s books and “Empire Strikes Back” which had minimal Lucas meddling a trend starts emerging…maybe Star Wars has grown beyond its maker and needs to be given to a new generation.

Being fans of Ronald D. Moore’s BSG you are in a unique position to understand what I am talking about. It isn’t that I am ungrateful…I’m not. Lucas was a visionary and created a rich tapestry from which to draw from. As all good managers and leaders know at some point you need to step aside and allow others to build on what you have created. If the foundation is strong the institution will hold.

Thoughts?

#2

I actually couldn’t agree more. George Lucas is the person that created this wonderful world and we should always be grateful to him for that. But it seems to me that the reason the prequels were not as good as the orginials IMO is because Lucas’s involvement became so much greater in the prequels.

I also think that Lucas made the prequels with merchandizing in mind which was not the case with the originals. In fact the entire concept of merchandizing on the scale that we have today was invented because of the first star wars movies.

#3

I think it’s a pertinent question. After all, the Great Bird passed on many years ago, and Star Trek kept going. In fact, with DS9 and First Contact, many believe the series did its best work. Now J.J. Abrams is taking over from the guys who took over from Roddenberry, and hopes are high again that he’ll re-resuscitate it (for those of us who weren’t fans of Voyager and Enterprise). It’s always good to get a fresh perspective on a story, even if you’re the guy who made it up.

#4

It already has been turned over to a new generation for years. If you look at some of the work done in the EU they almost always do a better execution than GL. I will point out that some of the EU is made from ideas that Lucas has and he always keeps a tight rein on the EU if it ventures to places he doesn’t want SW to go. He just turns them over to other artists who specialize in those fields outside the movies. A few examples besides the Thrawn Tilogy…

Tales of the Jedi comic series (The Dark Lords of the Sith and The Sith War series is how the prequels should have been)
Knights of the Old Republic Vid. Games
Episode 3 novelization
Anything written by Tim Zauhn, Mike Stackpole, Kevin Anderson, Troy Denning, or Mathew Stover
Shadows of the Empire novel and comic
Dark Empire comic series
Legacy Comics
Jedi Knight PC games
New Jedi Order novel series

My hope is that with the upcoming Clone Wars series and the eventual live action TV show, GL will take on more of a consulting role and let other artists play in his sand box like he’s done with the EU. Although, with the live TV series he has written most of the stories already. I think last I read it was like 100 episode. This is very similar to how he did the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles back in the 90s. He wrote the stories and then turned them over to script writers. I just hope he doesn’t impede on the creative instincts of others and just lets them do their thing.

#5

I’m not a huge fan of the prequels either. I certainly wanted more story, more characters and their stories. Sometimes I get a headache when we’re on Coursant. Given this topic, what are people’s expectations for the animated Clone Wars movie about to release? Will it give us more of what we’d hoped for from the prequels?

#6

Why do you think the guy is a billionaire? The merchandising and the way he has improved the movie industry have made this man a legend. Say what you want about the PT, GL had a vision of what things should be and went out and made that happen out of nothing. The guy is brilliant.

#7

it’s so great to read that other people think the same thing i have thought since i was 13!! the friend that recommended this site to me is a huge bsg fan and we were arguing about how much better 1~3 would have been if someone had stood up to george and demanded story over effects and when my friend threw the patented counter argument of “it’s george’s baby and you can’t rewrite star wars!” I FINALLY WON THIS ARGUMENT WITH THE FOLLOWING: “okay mr. BSG A REIMAGINING OF AN OLD CLASSIC!!”

leia will never be luke’s sister in my imagining of how star wars should have been…i love the idea of luke having a sister and the mythological archetype of divine twins but NOT having that sister be LEIA…the sister/twin is someone we never meet on screen and i crack up when bail organa says to yoda when deciding what to do with the female twin “my wife and i have always dreamed of adopting a little girl” cause yeh in this high tech world of clones and fertility drugs thats what every married couple dreams of!! that’s my biggest beef with george lucas cause it also makes luke a more tragic hero in my mind if he walks away from the woman he loves rather than “oh i really like her but ew she’s my sister…i can’t ***K my sister!” i grew up watching luke crushing on her and her having to decide between luke and han…i like thinking of luke as willingly giving up the love of his life to pursue the higher calling of becoming a jedi knight!!

#8

Yes he is brilliant - however I do think that perhaps the prequels suffered because they were more geared towards selling things than they were geared towards telling a good story. But that is just me.

#9

TighFighter, I have never and will never disagree with you on this point…George Lucas is brilliant. To your point he is a brilliant marketing and merchandising genius and very good businessman. I am questioning his ability to write dialogue and direct.

#10

Add “stories before you start filming” to that last bit. That’s the reason RotS is such a mess in the middle.

#11

I agree with what’s been said here… even though I love the prequels, they have their flaws and I love them just the same.

What GL needs is fewer “yes” people and more “well did you think about…” people.

It is like the polar opposite of Marion Zimmer Bradley’s view of the fantasy universe she creates - she even invited other writers to come play in her world, and would publish their stories (it did get complicated at one point with her last novels and someone saying my idea! but for the most part it worked really well). Some stories were a lot better than others, but the whole idea of creating this imaginary place and populating it with imaginary peoples and cultures naturally invites others to play along. And it seems to me that GL never learned to play nicely with others when it came to make-believe.

#12

I agree he sucks at directing at least with the PT. Just look at the performance of some of the actors. Normally some of the better actors like Portman and Ewan are great when doing other movies. The dialog makes me weep. Heh, even the OT has some terrible dialog. It’s this whole stupid idea Lucas had about how he wanted the PT era to be more regal, especially the Jedi, when the characters are talking, very lame.

I think something that hurt the PT is that this time around GL had all the money in the world to throw at the pictures. GL didn’t have to make any compromise and it’s those compromises that probably make the OT stronger. The CGI, while awesome, is way over blown and distracts sometimes from the story.

I don’t think that the PT was made for merchandising, but rather that the merchandising is what allowed GL to make the movies he wanted to make. GL just continued to use the infrastructure he built when raising money for these movies. It kind of scares me to think about what the OT would be like if the movies had the same kind of budget as the PT.

Bad directing and dialog aside, the story for the most part is great. My only major gripe is that I wished they would have started with an older Anakin and delved a little more into dark Anni, other than Ep.3 and a few teases along the way.

#13

I won’t fall into that trap…and my heart of hearts hopes that this is not true. I will never believe he created the prequels as a marketing device for action figures…ever.

This is what drives me crazy about the prequels…it isn’t that the story is flawed…the execution is flawed. Bad direction. Bad dialogue. There is a good story in there…this is why I continue to be passionate on the subject.

#14

I agree with Solai–the pieces were all there: compelling story, good actors (mostly–though I wonder what HC could have done with better direction), amazing effects, score to die for. Lucas just was not the guy to handle the details. He’s a “big picture” sort.

#15

Exactly.That is what ultimately hurts the PT. He wanted to do everything in his imagination, and the problem is this time around he actually had the means to do just that. Give me Kershner’s subtle moments of Yoda preaching about the force any day.

#16

I think Lucas good or bad is only one creative mind. The SW universe can only be enhanced by others. The creators of many “worlds” have passed their creations onto others successfully.

#17

GL has too in other avenues of multi-media and even two movies. (Empire and Jedi)

#18

I too, often imagine in my head that things happened differently than the movies portray them (one reason that I prefer to listen to the podcasts without watching the movies; spoils my little fantasy). But I can’t go to the Luke-Leia romance thing. Partly because Mr. Ford and Ms. Fisher’s chemistry was too fantastic, but possibly because I too am the male half of a boy-girl twin pair. It’s just a little icky.

Well put. Lucas is brilliant, but he is also human. Part of the joy of the art of filmmaking is the collaborative process, and while Lucas employed a lot of people for these movies, it seems doubtful that he really worked with them as fellow artists trading opinions and ideas. Everything that ended up on screen was exactly as he wanted it, but he wasn’t always right. (I feel the same way with M. Night Shymalan recently, too).

#19

I think I mentioned somewhere else that I wonder what the prequels would have been like with a different director.

Here are a few that come to mind: David Fincher, Christopher Nolan, Guillermo del Toro, and Quentin Tarantino. Also, imagine if the Coen brothers or Bryan Singer or even J.J. Abrams had gotten their hands on the screenplay and added their magic.

I used to think Hayden was poor because of Lucas but I’ve seen him in enough things to disregard that. I would have replaced him with Wes Bentley, Ricky Fitts from American Beauty. That boy’s stare could chill a lightsaber’s blade.