The HBO Miniseries “Band of Brothers” is probably among my all time favorites.
It was Black Hawk Down.
In no particular order:
Black Hawk Down. Tells the story of the Rangers in Mogadishu. Very realistic. I had one of the Rangers who fought there as my battalion Sergeant major. Good guy, but we didn’t exactly see eye to eye on about anything. There are some complaints—particularly from Africans—that the story is one sided. Well yeah, it is trying to tell the story from the perspective of the Americans who fought there, so in that sense, it succeeds. I love the bit of dialog where the soldier says “Colonel, there shooting at us,” to which the Colonel replies “well shoot back!” I actually had to do that with a new guy in Iraq who didn’t understand you don’t need permission to defend yourself. They actually had some of the same pilots fly the helicopters in the movie—Night stalkers I believe—and some of the same rangers for the repel shots—the 75th, I believe.
Das Boot. I make sure I watch this in Deutsch, but with English subtitles. I don’t know if it’s realistic, but it certainly has that feel. The film reminds me of the tragedy and wastefulness of war.
Band of Brothers. A wonderful and very realistic miniseries covering the men of easy company, 501st. I love how at the end there is a realization that were all human, and therefore, not so different.
Hamburger Hill. It shows how really, there is no glory in war, and if you strip away all the political bull shit, and the crap that Hollywood sends our way, soldiers fight because of the man on their left and right. A very heart breaking movie though.
We were Soldiers. Very realistic, and incredibly detailed. Does honor to both the US G.I.’s and the Vietnamese who fought them. The film more or less steers clear of the political BS.
Saving Private Ryan. D Day is show in a horrific and realistic manner. But, I question the realism of sending one squad led by a captain through enemy territory to find one man.
The Lost Battalion. Tells how an American Battalion is basically cut off from the rest of their allies during WWI due to their commands stupidity and incompetence. They become trapped in the Argonne forest and barely survive several repeated assaults from the Germans. Only 200 out of 600 walk out.
Three War movies I wish had never been made: Platoon, The Deer Hunter, and Apocalypse Now. I can’t think of any other films that have done more to damage the Vietnam Veterans than these. They show the exception as the norm. Consequently, they helped create and continue the stereotype that all Vietnam Vets are:
a.-crazy
b-ticking time bombs
c-war criminals
d-Drug taking alcoholics
e-all of the above
In fact, last year I got into an argument with a girl at my college. She asked me what kind of drugs I took in Iraq (she wasn’t joking, or trying to be cruel). She absolutely couldn’t believe me when I told her than in three year long tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, I had never seen any US soldier do drugs. It was like arguing with a stonewall. Uggghhhh. I blame films like Platoon, or maybe it’s just the huge disconnect between the public and the military as less than 1% the population actually serve.
Oh, you bet it’s realistic. I’d even go so far as to say it’s the best movie about naval warfare ever. It’s based on a true story after all, the author of the book the movie’s based on really was a journalist who had traveled extensively with submariners.
[
Hamburger Hill](http://www.amazon.com/Hamburger-Hill-Anthony-Barrile/dp/6300157563/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1215450943&sr=1-2). It shows how really, there is no glory in war, and if you strip away all the political bull shit, and the crap that Hollywood sends our way, soldiers fight because of the man on their left and right. A very heart breaking movie though.
Oh yes, when they have to storm that hill against incredible odds, in pouring rain, climbing up through the mud, losing almost all of their outfit just because their officer couldn’t come up with a better plan, it really drives home the senselessness of it. What’s a muddy hill in Vietnam worth fighting about?
Three War movies I wish had never been made: Platoon, The Deer Hunter, and Apocalypse Now.
Now, I haven’t seen The Deer Hunter, but I do feel the need to defend to the other two.
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Apocalypse Now: I see this one more as a literary adaptation than a realistic movie about war. It’s a rendition of Joseph Conrad’s novella “Heart of Darkness” from the very beginning of the 20th century and it’s a very awesome rendition in its own way, but you need to see the Redux version and appreciate the movie for its exploration of psychological themes, not as a straight war movie.
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Now, Platoon, that’s a different matter, and I would say that Platoon did the exact opposite from what you describe, at least in its own day, in 1986, maybe people get different impressions from the movie today. But from what I know, up till Platoon came out, big movies about the Vietnam tended to, how shall I say, sugarcoat things a lot, trying to come to terms with things that there just could be no amending of, no reconciliation with. Whereas Platoon was the first movie that really tried to capture what ground combat looked and felt like to the grunts, when you look at the cinematography of Platoon, the way the camera works in combat situations, that’s a certain style that hadn’t been there before and that for the first time, I think, made it possible for the audience in the theater to get an actual glimpse of what it could have been like over there. And that’s an achievement I give Oliver Stone a lot of credit for.
Now, for that other thing, the girl that you talk about, that’s just stupid I think and shows that people can draw completely wrong messages from war movies (which are actually anti-war movies in my book). Because it’s just stupid to ask if soldiers do drungs or how many do it, I think you have to take it to another level and ask why they do it and why even some of the most stable men and women eventually break down in very extreme situations and that that is not a sign of weakness but that the mind, just like the body, has its limits and can only be pushed so far until a breakdown occurs.
I agree that Episode 3 is delivered on the promise of the prequels. It’s an awesome movie and I can understand why this some people’s favorite. I think for this movie didn’t hold some of the flaws of the PT it would be my Fav. too.
Concerning Kashyyk… The city Kachirho dosen’t contradict the EU. It is explained that the city is a coastal city. Unlike the great forest city capital of Rwookrrorro the trees are less dense on the coast. Kachirho is still has trees built into it’s architecture. The city is designed around a 900 foot tall tree that is located on a fresh water lagoon. When the Separatists came to town they figured the best way to attack the Wookies was to launch an attack on a chain of islands known as the Wawaatt Archipelago because that is the only area that the droid army could land their ships. Like it was been established in the dreadful Holiday Special, Kasshyyk is mostly covered with trees. In fact after Ep.3 Darth Vader goes to Kasshyyk and with the help of Tarkin they enslave the Wookies and establish a main spaceport on Kachirho. The Wookies are sent off to help complete construction of the Deathstar.
See it does fit. 
Okay I can see that. If I remember correctly—and this idea upset many Africans as a racist idea—but Conrad basically argued that when you live in a land of savages you become one and that seems a theme in Apocalypse Now. That said, the movie is often played as a ‘war movie’ to which I am not sure I can agree. Exploring those psychological themes, whether I agree with them or not? Yeah I can see that, but what I am saying with both platoon and this movie is that when Hollywood continuously depicts these vets as being ready to snap, these attitudes leak over into public opinion. More on that in a minute.
GR, though I disagree with you, and I don’t think we will see eye to eye on this, I hope you know I still respect your opinion. That said, I hate Platoon. I am going to ramble on here, so bare with me. How the Vietnam vets were treated, and how that has played into how today’s vets are viewed is an issue I am pretty sensitive to as my uncles are both Vietnam vets, and they were treated like low class pieces of shit when they came home. War isn’t pretty and it’s only glorious to the politicians that don’t fight in them. That said, these Vietnam vets are by and large honorable men, and the best people you could hope to meet. Were civilians slaughtered and did some soldiers use drugs? Sure, and I have no problem with the media discussing and exploring these events, so that hopefully, they won’t be repeated. My problem is when they are the ONLY example we are shown. Hell, from some of these films you would wonder how the troops had the time to fight the enemy between burning down villages and smoking weed. Here is a truth, no one wants someone fighting next to them if they are high and seeing pink clouds. Odds are they wouldn’t live that long. Now you can correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression from your post that you believe the drug use thing goes on in large numbers. From personal experience I could tell you it does happen but it’s something like one or two soldiers for every few thousand. Believe me, you wouldn’t survive in combat very long high. I guess what I am trying to say that while these things in the film did happen, the way they are consistently depicted help reinforce stereotypes. To keep this short I will give you one example. If a veteran is accused of killing someone the headline will read: “Vietnam veteran slaughters family.” Rich man murders someone in the same manner, the headline will read: “Man questioned in the killing of the Gregovich family.” If you want more examples I can keep pumping them out.
I may have more to say, but I am going to take a break.
I don’t think we disagree very much. I think I have a good idea of the treatment Vietnam veterans got and are getting in American society. By the way, it’s interesting to see that soldiers from more “popular” wars like WWII got treated way better, right?
I just don’t take Platoon as a piece of stereotyping. From what I know, people in 1986 hadn’t the slightest idea of what kind of traumas combat experience could cause in young men and I think back then, Platoon went a long way in showing people that hey, war isn’t all that glorious at all, hence the term “anti-war” movie. But just because that kind of message is inherent in Platoon, it doesn’t belittle the soldiers in any way, in my opinion. It makes them human, it shows their faults, their shortcomings, shows us what a waste of life, of talent such a war was/is.
Now you can correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression from your post that you believe the drug use thing goes on in large numbers.
I don’t really have any beliefs or assumptions, I know it’s an issue, but I have no clue on what scale.
Now, I can see that you feel very strongly about “Platoon”, but in my mind, we have to remember that it’s fiction and as such, the writers more or less automatically overplay or highlight the “interesting” things or stuff that the audience will react to more in emotionally. Don’t forget that Oliver Stone was there himself and it was his story to tell and he told the way he saw fit.
As for the stereotyping, I don’t think we should blame it on a piece/pieces of fiction. It’s the people you watch it who make the stereotypes, people who’ll say hey yeah, I saw that in a movie, instead of hey, I wonder if it’s really like that. See what I mean? Fiction has a right to be as fictitious as it wants. And it was Stone’s story, not anyone else’s.
Now, I’d be more worried if you could point out any factual inconsistencies in documentaries, because those are not fiction. One that I really moved me deeply, more than any fiction movie, was “Dear America: Letters Home From Vietnam” - that had a strong impact on me.
How did we get so terribly off topic?
Just one last thought GR, then I am off to enjoy the warm sun. I don’t know why, but people seem to regard war movies as a sort of “documentary-lite,” at least from quite a few people I have talked to. While fictional movies have the right to be fictitious as they want, people sometimes—and often do—take war films as gospel. I am not saying Stone set out to reinforce any stereotypes, but I swear, if see another vet cast in a movie as a loose cannon ready to snap, I am going to scream. Additionally, I in no way see this film as humanizing or healing. But whatever, it’s free speech. Personally, I obviously just didn’t see the movie the same way you did.
Changing the subject so we don’t keep running around in circles, are there any German war movies you would recommend as realistic GR? Any would be cool, but how about WW1? It really seems to be becoming the forgotten war.
That is a very good question. As war movies go, the Germans have been very shy to make any at all, but there are a few.
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You said you’ve already seen Das Boot, which is certainly the pinnacle of German war-movie-making, but have you seen all of it, the complete 6-part TV miniseries that it originally was? Here
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Die Brücke/The Bridge - very obscure movie about a bunch of teenagers who have to defend a bridge against approaching Allied forces during the very last days of WWII and how they’re torn apart between the will to survive and the false sense of honor and duty that got instilled into them. Very tragic. Here
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Stalingrad - very realistic, very straightforward movie about, obviously, Stalingrad. I tend to prefer it over Enemy at the Gates. Here
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08/15 - A trilogy set in WWI, I really don’t know how to describe it, it’s got elements of a certain sense of macabre humor, I found it to be kind of inaccessible, but maybe that’s because WWI is just really hard to access through a movie in general. Here
Some other suggestions:
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Sophie Scholl - Germans seldom excel in making war movies, but you’ll never get a better picture about Nazi Germany than from German movie makers, it just feels so much more authentic than anything Hollywood ever turned out. And if you don’t know who Sophie Scholl was, you’ll need to see it, one of the greatest women who ever lived. Here
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Napola/Before the Fall - again, Hollywood would never make a movie that feels so incredibly intimate. About an elite Nazi school and a boy who doesn’t quite fit in. Here
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Der Untergang/The Downfall - you’ve probably seen it already anyway, but I added it for completeness’ sake.
I gave links to amazon, some of those seem to be easy to get your hands on in the States and probably netflixable, others you may have to look for by other means. If you titborrent what I mean.
And if you’re looking for WWI stuff and haven’t already read All Quiet On The Western Front, do that. And I mean really read, not seen the movie.
Thanks Lucky. I appreciate your recomendations.
I’ve never seen Black Hawk Down, so I need to remedy that. I know that Ron Moore has cited that movie many times as his model for the “realistic” style of BSG.
I have not seen Hamburger Hill, Lost Battalion or We were Soldiers either, I’ll to check them out.
Das Boot is a fantastic movie and ahead of its time in its realism I expect. I read the book too.
I can’t say enough about how much I loved Band of Brothers. I know it’s based on historian Stephen Ambrose’s book, and one of he’s main themes in many of his books is exploring the idea of leadership and that’s a rich subject in BofBs.
My favorite episode is “The Break Point” where the morale is low because of the incompetence of the company commander. When Dike freezes up during the crucial attack on Foy, Winters sends Dog Company’s Lt. Speirs to relieve him. Speirs instantly knows exactly what to do and does it successfully leads the taking of the town. I like the vivid example of natural combat leader (Speirs) contrasted with one that shouldn’t being leading men at all (Dike). And of course, Winter’s qualities as a leader throughout the how series is an inspiration.
bites tongue to keep from blurting out inane knowledge
You’re right Tigh, I kinda overlooked that part. P’raps I shoulda researched Kashyyyk a tad more huh? I’m just going on what I can remember from the novels. I remember the part about the “manhood” (?? Wook hood??) veremonies where the males go down levels and kill the thingys they used for the bandoliers. There was something about never going all the way to the ground there. Apparently that’s the only part of the geography of the planet that stuck in my head.
Good points Mike! I agree about the stress of being force choked and then going into labor but…speaking as a woman who has been through labor more than once, unless they doped the craaaaaap out of her on the way from Mustafarr to what ever the heck the name of the robot rock is, no way she was stressed out that much by the labor part. Now I say this because after other people had been force choked by Vader they go up and went about their business (well except for Ozzel), coughing and spluttering but still okay and functioning. Now he did have Padme up in the air for a while but she seemed to be conscious when he let her go. When they were in the delivery room I assume she was massively drugged up because no way was she working to get them babies out. And then, poof she dies? shrug Who knows. Either way, seemed a tad hokey to me but what do I know. I still love the movie, even though I’m picking on it.
Maybe there’s a difference between the cold, calculated force choke we see Vader use on his underlings in the subsequent (previous?) movies, and the blind rage behind the force choke Anakin applied to Padme. It seems possible that that much “dark force” flowing through some one with out Jedi skills to protect them selves could be fatal. Just speculation though…
Yes, yes you do. It’s a singular film.
Supposedly she did… the droid that came out while she was in labor to talk to Obi-Wan and Bail Organa said that physically she’s fine, but that she had lost the will to live. Which is why her death sucks big time and is an epic fail, IMO.
Ah, yes. Hard to refute actual dialogue from the movie. Got me. 
I wish your explanation were the ‘real’ one, just like I wish GL was banned from ever writing dialogue, particularly romantic dialogue, ever again…
Yeah, I gotta stop striking up conversations with “I hate sand…”
Awwwww. C’mon Pike! That would have been an awesome opening line. Of course it probably would have only worked in a bar but still, you gotta give the boy some style points for that one.
A: “I hate sand, it gets everywhere, makes you itch…”
P: (wiggling around like she’s really itchy) “ooo I know what you mean. I’m not real big on sand either.”
A: “It’s really awful when it gets in your pants. You know there’s nothing to do but take em off to fix that.”
P: (wiggling more) “Now I’m all itchy just listening to you talk about it.”
A: “Well…only way to get it to stop is to take your pants off…”
A: I put on my Wizard robe and hat…
P: I told you to leave me alone!
GR, thanks for the recommendations. I am embarrassed to admit I have seen “All quiet on the Western Front,” but haven’t actually read the book. What about Downfall? I have not heard much about it, but I did see the spoof where Hitler was a cowboys fan. Actually here you go:
Thots, you should definitely check out Black Hawk Down, or read the book which was even better.