Star Wars Ep.1: The Phantom Menace

[Mike_P]

It’s funny how the Ewoks are never named on screen (maybe in the credits, to be fair), but everyone knows they are Ewoks because of the merchandising, which so far as I can tell is their prime justification for existence. Yes, yes, I get the whole “naturalist primitives defeat industrial empire” thing going on… but how is the groundwork for that theme laid anywhere in the previous two episodes (IV or V)? The conflict (at least the primary conflict) is not between nature and technology, but between good and evil. I suppose there is all that stuff about Luke trusting his feelings rather than his targeting computer – but no where before VI do we have any hint that “getting back to nature” is going to be a thematic concern of this story. Everyone in the SW universe uses what we would recognize as advanced technology up to Ep VI, even the frakking Jawas. I guess if I were being more fair-minded I could give Lucas credit for introducing something new, but, more often than not, when you introduce something totally new in the last act of your story, it just feels clumsy and dumb. Think about, for example, if the final Cylon is revealed in 2009 to be some character we’ve never met before. There would be no end of protests. I feel the same way about the Rebel-Ewok alliance in Ep VI. You’re telling me the gang that figured out a way to blow up the first Death Star needs the help of teddy bears to bring the Empire down for good? C’mon!

If you are interested in whatever original plan Lucas had for Star Wars (he had a plan about as much as the Cylons turned out to have had a plan), you can find various script drafts and synposes in The Making of Star Wars. Be warned – the plot in its pre-Ep IV form is utterly incomprehensible. It sucks big-time. Having to streamline it to make “Star Wars” as one movie in 1977 was the best thing that ever happened to that story, and there are only the most superficial of resemblances to what was originally pawned off as “the plan all along.”

Pfeh.

[TighFighter]

If you are interested in whatever original plan Lucas had for Star Wars (he had a plan about as much as the Cylons turned out to have had a plan), you can find various script drafts and synposes in The Making of Star Wars. Be warned – the plot in its pre-Ep IV form is utterly incomprehensible. It sucks big-time. Having to streamline it to make “Star Wars” as one movie in 1977 was the best thing that ever happened to that story, and there are only the most superficial of resemblances to what was originally pawned off as “the plan all along.”

For the most comprehensive site about early Star Wars scripts check out this site… Starkiller

[LittleMissT]

Hi, I saw it for the first time, I liked it.

1. Jar Jar is annoying!

2. Special Effects and Costumes were awesome!

3. the Pod Races were off the hook! They were cool!

4. The Ships and stuff were nice!

5. Light Saber Thing fights were cool to watch!

6. Location and Settings were awesome!

I give it a 9 out of 10 (10 being good)

[Phil]

Okay, I like the idea of Palpatine/Darth Sidious having a role in the conception of Anakin through manipulation of the Force and midicholorians. What I’m not sure about is Anakin’s role in forming the Empire and how he played in DS’s plan.

First of all what was DS trying to accomplish with the war between Naboo and the Trade Federation? The most important thing was getting Palpatine named Chancellor. Given that was the actual outcome of the battle immaterial to him? Largely, the defeat of the Trade Federation rested on the happenstance that Anakin found his way into a Naboo fighter cockpit that automatically flew to the battle. I guess if Anakin had been hid elsewhere then the TF space ship would not have been destroyed and the robot army would have wiped out the Gungans. I guess TF occupation of Naboo would have just lead to an earlier start of the Clone Wars? So did Anakin (temporally) hinder Darth Sidious’s plans here or was he part of the grand scheme (which if so seems to have been resting on some major coincidences)?

I’m curious because I’m trying to figure out what role Anakin actually did have in the formation of the Empire that wasn’t already set in motion or preordained by the actions of Darth Sidious.

[frakkintalos]

Okay, I like the idea of Palpatine/Darth Sidious having a role in the conception of Anakin through manipulation of the Force and midicholorians. What I’m not sure about is Anakin’s role in forming the Empire and how he played in DS’s plan.

First of all what was DS trying to accomplish with the war between Naboo and the Trade Federation? The most important thing was getting Palpatine named Chancellor. Given that was the actual outcome of the battle immaterial to him? Largely, the defeat of the Trade Federation rested on the happenstance that Anakin found his way into a Naboo fighter cockpit that automatically flew to the battle. I guess if Anakin had been hid elsewhere then the TF space ship would not have been destroyed and the robot army would have wiped out the Gungans. I guess TF occupation of Naboo would have just lead to an earlier start of the Clone Wars? So did Anakin (temporally) hinder Darth Sidious’s plans here or was he part of the grand scheme (which if so seems to have been resting on some major coincidences)?

I’m curious because I’m trying to figure out what role Anakin actually did have in the formation of the Empire that wasn’t already set in motion or preordained by the actions of Darth Sidious.

I think you’re looking at this like the Jedi did, one dimensionally. You repair one problem yet five others pop up. They were unable to put their heads around such disorder. Palpy was the chessmaster, planning many moves ahead. There were probably plans in place we didn’t even see. Palpy thrived on the entropy.

The victor of the conflict between the TF and Naboo was insignificant. The conflict itself was important. Either way, someone would have voted for no confidence in current leadership and Palpy’s ascension would have been achieved. The means are unimportant only the end. Any leader understands that. The difficult part is being able to ascertain the moral dilemma. Palpy has no dilemma, only avarice for power.

If Anakin was a creation of Palpy’s device, he was just another weapon in his abundant arsenal. Palpy probably had no idea what a creation like that would do. Once he met Anakin and realized who he was with midi-c’s and all, he began his manipulation of his new tool.

The Jedi destroyed themselves. Even without Anakin, their downfall was imminent. Palpy manipulated the whole universe to fight each other. He just sat back and watched. The Jedi were about order. The Sith’s game is chaos. Both are absolutes and the universe is dynamic, they may both know that balance is the solution but neither understand what that balance may be.

The Expanded Universe handles what other tricks Palpy had up his sleeve. You really have to admire the genius, if not diabolical mind.

[TighFighter]

Okay, I like the idea of Palpatine/Darth Sidious having a role in the conception of Anakin through manipulation of the Force and midicholorians. What I’m not sure about is Anakin’s role in forming the Empire and how he played in DS’s plan.

First of all what was DS trying to accomplish with the war between Naboo and the Trade Federation? The most important thing was getting Palpatine named Chancellor. Given that was the actual outcome of the battle immaterial to him? Largely, the defeat of the Trade Federation rested on the happenstance that Anakin found his way into a Naboo fighter cockpit that automatically flew to the battle. I guess if Anakin had been hid elsewhere then the TF space ship would not have been destroyed and the robot army would have wiped out the Gungans. I guess TF occupation of Naboo would have just lead to an earlier start of the Clone Wars? So did Anakin (temporally) hinder Darth Sidious’s plans here or was he part of the grand scheme (which if so seems to have been resting on some major coincidences)?

I’m curious because I’m trying to figure out what role Anakin actually did have in the formation of the Empire that wasn’t already set in motion or preordained by the actions of Darth Sidious.

I’ve often wondered the same thing.The only plausible explanation I can come up with is that Palpatine’s manipulations are being informed by visions of the future. There is no doubt that the Trade Federation conflict is meant to put Palatine in the position of Chancellor. How is it that somehow this boy, who Palpatine may have created, gets mixed up in this conflict and in fact causes the Naboo to win. Dramatic license? Could the other point of the TF occupation be that Palpatine knew that Qui-Gon would find Anni on Tatoonie?

I’m not really sure if Anakin really has a role in forming the Empire. Unless he was meant to divide the Jedi because of his great power. I think Palpatine just wanted the most powerful henchman once he was in control of the galaxy.

[Phil]

The victor of the conflict between the TF and Naboo was insignificant. The conflict itself was important. Either way, someone would have voted for no confidence in current leadership and Palpy’s ascension would have been achieved.

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Darth Sidious would win either way. I guess Anakin’s actions just brought himself to the attention of Sidious sooner than later.

If Anakin was a creation of Palpy’s device, he was just another weapon in his abundant arsenal. Palpy probably had no idea what a creation like that would do. Once he met Anakin and realized who he was with midi-c’s and all, he began his manipulation of his new tool.

I like the idea that Palpy really had no idea what to use Anakin for initially, yet his existence had been prophesied way in advance by the Jedi. I mentioned this before, but its also interesting that Palpy created the method of his own destruction.

The Jedi destroyed themselves. Even without Anakin, their downfall was imminent. Palpy manipulated the whole universe to fight each other. He just sat back and watched. The Jedi were about order. The Sith’s game is chaos. Both are absolutes and the universe is dynamic, they may both know that balance is the solution but neither understand what that balance may be.

This was the main point I was wondering about. Sean and Chuck repeated mention how badly Yoda and Obiwan messed up with regards to Anakin. But in actuality the errors we see only affect the way Anakin was raised. He may have had a happier adolescence and become a better adjusted adult if different decisions had been made, but by the end of TPM the formation of the Empire was pretty much a fait a compli. Those larger Jedi mistakes that lead to their downfall and the formation of the Empire certainly predate Obiwan and likely lie at a time when Yoda was quite a bit younger (a spry 550 years old perhaps?). On the other hand (as we’ve been discussing before too) it is quite possible that all the ‘mistakes’ Obiwan and Yoda made regarding Anakin are actually what eventually leads to the destruction of the Emperor, but driving Anakin to the Dark Side and putting him in a position to eventually destroy him.

The Expanded Universe handles what other tricks Palpy had up his sleeve. You really have to admire the genius, if not diabolical mind.

Sounds interesting…

[frakkintalos]

This was the main point I was wondering about. Sean and Chuck repeated mention how badly Yoda and Obiwan messed up with regards to Anakin. But in actuality the errors we see only affect the way Anakin was raised. He may have had a happier adolescence and become a better adjusted adult if different decisions had been made, but by the end of TPM the formation of the Empire was pretty much a fait a compli. Those larger Jedi mistakes that lead to their downfall and the formation of the Empire certainly predate Obiwan and likely lie at a time when Yoda was quite a bit younger (a spry 550 years old perhaps?). On the other hand (as we’ve been discussing before too) it is quite possible that all the ‘mistakes’ Obiwan and Yoda made regarding Anakin are actually what eventually leads to the destruction of the Emperor, but driving Anakin to the Dark Side and putting him in a position to eventually destroy him.

That’s what I find interesting about the theory that Anakin was created rather than happen naturally. Either way he’s a aberration. Maybe humans or anybody weren’t made to handle that many midi-c’s. As typical of most altering nature stories (e.g. Frankenstein, Jurassic Park, et al), the creation tends to cause much destruction and despise its creator. I don’t think parenting or anything else would have helped Anakin, he was doomed from the start.

Much like the genetic enhanced humans of Khan’s generation, no one could tame their ambition. With what midi-c’s do for a Jedi’s abilities, how did that effect Anakin’s thought processes.

[Rowan]

Just out of curiosity…has anyone mentioned the awesome cameo appearances in PM?

Aurra Sing
Quinlan Vos

and the best one… Warwick Davis.

[Phil]

That’s what I find interesting about the theory that Anakin was created rather than happen naturally. Either way he’s a aberration. Maybe humans or anybody weren’t made to handle that many midi-c’s. As typical of most altering nature stories (e.g. Frankenstein, Jurassic Park, et al), the creation tends to cause much destruction and despise its creator. I don’t think parenting or anything else would have helped Anakin, he was doomed from the start.

Much like the genetic enhanced humans of Khan’s generation, no one could tame their ambition. With what midi-c’s do for a Jedi’s abilities, how did that effect Anakin’s thought processes.

Kind of raises the question, if he hadn’t been removed from his mother would she have been able to successfully parent him either? While I bet his motivations would have been out of love would he try to ‘protect’ her try to improve her life in ways that did more harm than good. Anakin loved Padme will all his heart and we can see how well that went; was it because of the trials that he faced as a kid/adolescent or due to such a strong ability with the force itself?

Interesting that both Anakin’s mother and son found stability and refuge in the same person, Uncle Owen…

[frakkintalos]

Kind of raises the question, if he hadn’t been removed from his mother would she have been able to successfully parent him either? While I bet his motivations would have been out of love would he try to ‘protect’ her try to improve her life in ways that did more harm than good. Anakin loved Padme will all his heart and we can see how well that went; was it because of the trials that he faced as a kid/adolescent or due to such a strong ability with the force itself?

Interesting that both Anakin’s mother and son found stability and refuge in the same person, Uncle Owen…

Eric Napoletano was a mama’s boy also. As a slave, Anakin probably would have raged that slave rebellion he dreamt of. Who knows where his ambition would have lead?

[TighFighter]

Just out of curiosity…has anyone mentioned the awesome cameo appearances in PM?

Aurra Sing
Quinlan Vos

and the best one… Warwick Davis.

You are forgeting the coolest cameo…

The E.T race in the senate.

[Phil]

Eric Napoletano was a mama’s boy also. As a slave, Anakin probably would have raged that slave rebellion he dreamt of. Who knows where his ambition would have lead?

…and the most famous movie mama’s boys of them all:

[frakkintalos]

…and the most famous movie mama’s boys of them all:

I totally missed that. I was thinking Dahmer also. Thanx for picking me up.

[Phil]

Interesting that both Anakin’s mother and son found stability and refuge in the same person, Uncle Owen…

Just watched RotS last night and realize that I must have had a mental palsy before. Anakin’s mom obviously married Owen’s father, but the overall point is the same…