Welcome clawrift.
Originally I think that was intended to be Kirk’s older brother George but they changed it. If George was hitchiking and Jimmy stole the car, something must have happened while Winona Kirk was away. Perhaps the novel could shed some light?
thank you. I am into the 1st hour of the audio book. maybe it will explain something.
I have been hearing diaapointment in the new Uhura… I dont get it.
SHe was really skillful ( off camera… I’m taking her word for it. At least they said that she had skills, instead of showing her fail like our Uhura (ST6) ).
Let’ examine the old Uhurah and compare and contrast.
I think we have to seperate the importance of Nichele Nicoles as a cast memeber ( the effects her presence on the show had to some people because of the actress’s race and gender) , and , and the intelligence and skill level of the fictional character Uhurah.
If somone tells me that Ms. Nichols mere presence in the TOS inspires them, I can see that. Sometimes feeling left out of the world can be a drag, and just looking up and seeing a kindred spirit can be inspireing. I get that. That actress being there in the background ( 90% of the time) was better than no woman ( althou there was always a woman in that spot…like 100% of the time.) or no Black person. So don’t think I don’t get that part of the Uhura mythos.
That being said, If someone tell me that her character , Uhurah, did something ( in cannon) that showed a skill level above and beyond what is expected from any character and thatshe impessed them… I laugh in their faces. If “Uhura (the character… not her race or gender) inspired you…well it must not take much” I will back this up… and it won’t be a lawyer talk, or fixed figures. It’s simple.
Let’s examine the old Uhurah (Canon only) :
Uhura, BTW has no name in cannon other than Uhura until JJA 2009 movie. So how important was she to the trek writers?
1)Our Uhurah answerd the phone ( exactly as proficient as the “blonde of the week” that did it in the few episodes Nicholes was missing).
2)Usualy she put hailing mesg’s on the screen ( but sometimes Sulu and checkov did that. So for these skills we must grade her character as: Basicly proficient in her duties as a communications officer.
3) Ok she was the head of the communications department on the flagship of the federation for three different 5 year missions as well as being an Academy instructor(and unless you are an extreme trkkie who reads a lot of non-canon stuf, you might not even get this point. it’s not spelled out for you)
. Ok… this seems great. But we never see any skills that she has. We just have to assume that based on her position and rank, that she is skillful… althou we never see it. She aparently can teach others to push the right buttons and be a mentor… but we don’t see any of it demonstrated. 4) She does exactly 3 things well in the movies.
a) She pulls a gun on a douchebag officer and transorts Kirk and company to the enterprise. (st3TS4Sk) anybody could do it, but she get’s points for her willingness to throw away her carreer for it.
b) She and checov beam aboard the Navy ship. Anybody could have done it… and most could have done it better. No points for that.
c) She danced naked to lure men to get captured in St:V. gets a few points for that.
Ok the contrast. The Old Uhurah showed NO skills beyond singing in TOS or the movies. She jsut has a willingness to help her buddies.
The NEW uhurah is proficient in alien languages. and has a stronger personality at a younger age.
My question… what thing did old Uhurah do that this Uhurah didn’t surpass that had anything to do with her job. Singing doesn’t count! (Don’t say old uhurah didn’t flirt or fratranize… cause in mantrap she almost bed’s the salt vampir that was poseing as an enlisted crewman…and in ST 5 she and Scotty are about to Bone on the bridge.)
PLUS this uhura is hotter, which was the purpose of uhura in the first place. New Uhura is Hotter, showed more profeciancy in her occupation, and took up more % screen time in this movie than old uhurah did in ANY of her. PLUS her first name wasn’t cannon until this movie. If Ggving her a name wasn’t more character development than TOS and TOS movies… what is!
This charcter that wasn’t a part of the important 3 ( Spock, Bones, and Kirk) got more time on screen than she ever had… and was cooler. It is unreasonable to expect more. It’s like getting mad a BSG episode for only haveing 10% screen time for Tori or Racetrack.
What more can be expected than the what she did. How was Old Uhurah better? If this is better… and you like her but you expected more… what did you expect?
I could swear we heard somewhere in cannon that her name was “Nayota,” or however it’s spelled. Maybe Scotty said it in The Final Frontier when she was flirting with him? Maybe I’m trippin’ and just read it in one of the books… In any case, she at least played an important role; making it “The Uhura Show” wouldn’t make sense, she’s not the main character, Kirk and Spock are. Update: Nope, I was trippin,’ must have been thinking of “Of Gods and Men,” which definitely ain’t cannon.
BTW, you guys that don’t know. Of Gods and Men is pretty cool. It’'s a little better after a drink. after I loosen up… I can get over the main charcacters not being the original actors. But the scripts are great and the sets and effects Rule. Pike turned me on to them a few months back and I am hooked! have to wait to long before episodes… almost like bsg!
The name “Nyota” was established by the time of TMP. I’m not sure when the first time it was actually spoken was.
Yeah that article even says that she didn’t have a name in canon. FASA was licensed up thru Star Trek 4 and her name is Penda in that. So the ST: TWoK bigraphy is aas much non-canon as the “Shatnerverse”.
It was “established”, meaning that she didn’t have one and convention goer’s asked Nicoles. She named her Nyota. That’s right… they never officialy gave her a name. Some Star trek notes said her name was “Penda” which was just as official as Nyota because it came from the studio. But she NEVER had a name in canon.Not even in Star trek TMP thru star trek 5. The actress had to name herself 14 or 15 years after playing her on telivision and the writers never made it official until the new movie. It was put in novels but never spoken or shown on screen. Therefore it wasn’t canon. Remeber Trek’s golden rule. The only canon is what we see on screen. If not we’d be asking where the Dreadnoght’s and the Klizinti were!
Funny thing is, Uhura even calls Checov “Paval” and he calls her Uhura.
Funny thing about sexism in america. If Kirk had been banging a hot teacher… and had been getting thru her class on just his looks ( which Uhurah didn’t do) we would just giggle and say “Awwww, that’s my Kirk!” ( ok really I wouldn’t because Kirk is supposed to be an over achiever in everything and that would really piss me off! But non-trek fans would like it) Uhura get’s called a ho! Not fair!!!
Then I imagine they have a real disregard for Sulu, or especially Spock.
They didn’t bother with it because it never came up. Burn your bridges when you get to them, lad.
They’re right… I do sound kinda shitty when i write. I wish that I was face to face haveing these discussions with cool people so they could see me smiling when I write. I don’t mean to be shitty sounding. Sorry about that.
One thing about the internet is that it sure does stress how important non-vocal cues are. 
Back on topic: I liked it better when the supporting characters were merely very good at their jobs, and not THE BEST SPECIMENS EVAH PRODUCED. Fumbling with a dictionary because she was conversational, but not totally fluent, in Klingon is much more human than “All three dialects.” (Seriously J.J., wouldn’t it be enough that she spoke Vulcan fluently and could sort it out from the Romulan chatter?) And Chekow is now a child prodigy, etc.
as a kid watching TNG I was soooo let down by Wesley. Not because he was stupid… but because he was a genius.
I had always imagined that if starfleet academy were real, my little honor roll, gifted, athletic ass would have been a great Starfleet officer. I had been watching Kirk all my life. In comes Wesly and Picard and Geordi. And my fantasy of my fantasy was destroyed! They might would let me and my friends be Redshirts!
Kirk was an overachiever… but in a more realistic way. The TNG crew were all science officers. For real, I felt that Geordi was more Science oficer than engineer.
As for the discussion on skill levels in this movie let me say this, I am the direct supervisor over Military Intelligence Linguists ( I technicaly am as well but it’s not my job anymore, but that is a tale for another time) and what they say is “proficient or fluent” is not what a movie would make it out to be. Uhura in St: 6 is on par with a REAL militery linguist. Our non-native linguists have a tape that they can listen to over and over again. And our linguists don’t EVER have to speak the native language past school and testing. They get to listen to copy three or four times to make sure they get it right. Even a 3+ linguist ( a DLPT grade that means “fluent”) would have a hard time speaking over a radio with a contact target and responding in tongue. If my linguists did as well as Uhurah in ST 6… I would be proud.
But this is fiction. And in fiction all US Rangers are ninjas ( and we are not I promise) spy’s speak russian like natives ( I don’t know an american born one that does) and radar, sonar, and in Uhura’s case comms officers can intercept the signals that the automated systems don’t ever see.
I think that makeing Uhura a super spy was the attempt to do the thing that he is being critisized for not doing enough of… give her something beyond singing that makes her different from the other pretty girl in a skirt who couuld be sitting in that same place. In the end… she is still just the comms officer.
I like that Scotty didn’t fix anything at all in the movie. wait… he did do the beaming. I forgot that in Trek, for some reason… that was his scondary job ( either that or he had been a transporter operator and kjust like hanging out in there)
I always liked Uhura. Growing up I watched TOS on reruns and she was the only female character there, and of course as a girl I was a big fan of hers.
I really liked the way she was represented in the film, and although I don’t know all the history of the character, I didn’t think she was poorly represented at all. In fact, I thought she had a lot of depth to her to the point where she held her own in a room full of boys.
So yeah.
Not Picard, he wasn’t a contemporary.
I propose that it was either:
John Gill, the Federation historian in the TOS episode “Patterns of Force” who turned the planet Ekos into a Nazi regime (resulting in some regrettably disseminated photos of Kirk and Spock). Kirk knew Gill… I think he was Kirk’s history teacher in the Academy or something.
John Farrell (called “Johnny” in “Mudd’s Women”), who appeared as the Enterprise’s navigator in a few episodes. You’ll recognize his face more than his name:
When I first heard “they” were doing a Star Trek reboot/prequel/whatever I shook my head and asked, “Why?” Then the first trailer was released and there was a part of me that was so excited new Trek was coming and another part of me that began to sharpen my Bat’leth. Because let’s face it at the heart of every fan, there is a love/hate relationship with their obsession. There is a bit of insanity in fandom and this reaction just proves it.
So allow me to introduce the two halves of 'talos.
Cute and cuddly talosbunny
and Mirror-talos; a ruthless, critical, and frustrated individual hell-bent on nitpicking every nuance.
During the time leading up to the film, I captured Mirror-talos and placed him in suspended animation. I wanted to enjoy this film. I wanted to give it a chance. I did not want to go into this film with any preconception. That of course would be impossible. We are talking about a phenomenon spanning 40 years of entertainment history and something I love dearly.
Then the day arrived. I was going to see the new Star Trek film. I was doubly excited because it would be with fellow GWCers!! We sat down and my heart raced. The trailers rolled and finally…The USS Kelvin passed across the screen. By the end of the prologue I was sold. I had tears in my eyes and it had nothing to do with Star Trek. The opening sequence grabbed me by the throat and made me feel for the characters. Once the opening credits started to roll I was content. Star Trek was being treated with the respect it deserved.
FF’d to the end of the film. I left the theatre with my GWC cohorts, all satisfied with what this new Trek had to offer. We proceeded to enjoy each other’s company over burgers at a local joint and then parted ways. A wonderful evening for all.
During the course of the next two weeks I played the images of the movie in my head and began to feel the beast lurking within. Mirror-talos was planning his escape. It would not be long before I would need to contend with his onslaught. For your reading pleasure I have chronicled the conversation:
Mirror-talos: So, you thot you could keep me at bay forever?
talosbunny: No, not really. Let’s hear it.
Mirror-talos: Fine. I agree that the opening sequence was good and the score was fitting. But then the scene we were dreading occurred. Little Jimmy Kirk and the 'vette.
talosbunny: I know. I know. James T Kirk was never a punk. But…
Mirror-talos: Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Did you notice the 'vette?
talosbunny: What about it?
Mirror-talos: 60s ‘vette. Perhaps 1964 or 1966. Ring a bell?
talosbunny: Nah! He wouldn’t.
Mirror-talos: He might, rabbit. He might. In his establishing sequence, JJ Abrams shows his version of James T Kirk destroying a classic. Telling the fans, “Say goodbye. We’re throwing something dear and precious off a cliff.”
talosbunny: I think you’re reading too much into this.
Mirror-talos: Am I? Did you see the ads? ‘This is not your father’s Star Trek’
talosbunny: But that was just to get people in the seats. They did such a great job with the characterizations. They paid a bunch of homage to the fans. It was funny. It was cool.
Mirror-talos: smirk Granted. Pine’s Kirk didn’t mimic Shatner. He stayed true to the established Punk badass Kirk. He was funny and carried the role very well. Quinto’s Spock was spot-on. Urban’s McCoy was amazing. Characters thumbs-up all around.
talosbunny: stunned Wow. So you liked the movie?
Mirror-talos: Hold on fuzzy! I didn’t say that. Who the frak is Johnny?
talosbunny: Who?
Mirror-talos: The kid on the side of the road. We got little Kirk driving the ‘vette rockin’ to the Beasties, which like you said very cool and fun. But then he passes some kid and shouts, “Hey Johnny!” If he had said George that woulda made sense since Kirk had an older brother named George. We could put together that George and Jimmy are running away from home while their mom is outta town cuz they can’t stand their step-dad. Instead we get Johnny. And this is only the beginning of plot holes you can drive a starship through. talosbunny tries to interrupt Here’s another: what was Nero doing for 25 years while waiting around for Spock? Huh? Sight seeing? Catching up on reading?
talosbunny: He was captured by Klingons and put in prison on Rura Penthe.
Mirror-talos: Really? Where’d ya get that info genius? Because it wasn’t in the film. Was it part on another piece of material I need to buy to enjoy the film? Like the comic ‘Countdown’?
talosbunny: No. Deleted scenes.
Mirror-talos: I guess it’ll be on the Extended Director’s version DVD.
talosbunny: Probably.
Mirror-talos: Yeah well. There’s nothing they can do about the fight scenes and space battles.
talosbunny: What was wrong with those? They were great.
Mirror-talos: You think? I’ve got one thing to say. Back the frak up, JJ. Do we have to be right on top of all the action? I was friggin’ dizzy, with so many body parts flying and circling the hulls of the ships and camera-tracking torpedoes. I won’t even mention the abundant use of camera flare. I’m gonna need sunglasses next time I watch this.
talosbunny: So, you’re gonna see this again?
Mirror-talos: Don’t be smart. You know I will. I won’t take anything away from how fun and cool this film is. I’m just pointing out that the plot was a bit to be desired. Which brings up another interesting plot point, Kirk gets promoted faster than he can bed an Orion chick. He went from suspended cadet to Captian of a Starship, mind you the flagship of the Federation. Yep. That makes a bunch of sense.
talosbunny: Well, I hope now that Abrams has gotten over the tremendous mountain of Trek fandom and settled the fears of many, he can come back and deliver an intriguing story for the next film.
Mirror-talos: My fear is that the sequel will be filled with the same placating jokes and nods to the original, while pissing on certain aspects of it. Give us a story, one that challenges our perceptions and prejudices of our world around us. Break beyond making Roddenberry’s vision gritty and real, build on that vision and the challenges it takes to achieve it. That’s what made Star Trek great in the first place.
talosbunny: Amen.
Mirror-talos: And another thing. Did Spock need all the red matter in the universe? Did he get a discount for buying in bulk? If one little drop was all he needed…
talosbunny: Always have to get the last word?
Mirror-talos: Not always.
The battle between talosbunny and Mirror-talos comes to blows. That draws the attention of the other N.E. GWCers to come watch.
N.E. GWC #1: Ohhh that looks nasty.
N.E. GWC #2: Should we help talosbunny?
N.E. GWC #1: No, this is something that Talosbunny needs to do for himself.
talosbunny: NO IT ISN’T!
N.E. GWC #1: YES IT IS!
N.E. GWC #2: You get the chairs, I’ll get the snacks.
The others gather around to enjoy the show…
I had the same arguments in my head, and Anti-ATGreat also kept on harping about an engine room that was filmed in a brewery. (Which explains why Scotty loved the ship…) What kind of engine room looks like a brewery? With water all over the floor?
Yeah, The GF had the same slow fuse reaction. We decided that it just wasn’t a “smart” movie. And not in the ‘that’s a genius idea’ vein, but more in the ‘that doesn’t really make internal sense’ vein. We expect a bit more from Trek.
OTOH, they got the band together. Let’s see what they do with it.
Yeah and they did a wonderful job with the crew. I am looking forward to the sequel. I hope they put together an adventure script. It might be fun to explore the universe again.
You know, Mirror-talos said Quinto’s Spock was spot-on but I have to disagree. To be honest, he looks like young Nimoy but he doesn’t act like Spock. Nimoy’s Spock was emotional with affection. Quinto’s Spock is pent up with rage and violent.
Yeah, Spock was the one characterization I had a problem with. He was too emotional in this one (and I’m one who had wished he struck more of a balance in the series.) Apparently he can Pon Farr at will. Because the Kelvin was destroyed. Or something…
Might be an interesting conversation between Spock1 and Spock2 in the future.
Spock1: “So you can…you know…anytime you want?”
Spock2: “Yes.” left eyebrow raises
Spock1: “Fascinating.” right eyebrow raises
After desperately searching on the internet for any sign of intelligence, to no avail, it’s refreshing to come back here and see that at least a sizeable portion of the forum members did not like this empty and shallow parody of Star Trek. It really was like the ADD/Ritalin version of Star Trek. 2 hours of nonstop scene cutting, wildly careening from one tired cliche plot element to the next, from one gratuitous use of CGI to the next. In fact, this was actually a Star Wars movie – a really BAD Star Wars movie!
I could go on. :rolleyes: